Realgm article on Hawks trade needs

[coachx]

Loos like the national media sees the same thing we see. Of coure the ASG and Sund must see it too.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/210760/Trade_Deadline_Needs_Atlanta_Hawks

[spotatl]

Crawford and Teague for Billups would be spectacular. The Hawks would have to pay the tax but I think Denver would do Billups, JR SMith, and Birdman for Crawford, Bibby, Evans and Thomas.

[MaceCase]

Not really as in depth as I was hoping it would be. Offered nothing of substance in terms of who might be available or would fit. Really was no different than what plenty posters say without any targets being mentioned.

[benhillboy]

I'm not sure what we need to focus on more: the guys we need in here, or the guys we need out. Any takers for Mo, Bibby, and Marvin surely have comparable players who, if they have a heartbeat, are better for our roster and payroll.

[ATLJA316]

Crawford and Teague for Billups would be spectacular. The Hawks would have to pay the tax but I think Denver would do Billups, JR SMith, and Birdman for Crawford, Bibby, Evans and Thomas.

You honestly think they'd make that trade?

[Admin]

You honestly think they'd make that trade?

I'd consider giving up Crawford for Billups (who is nearly 35 BTW) but I'm not parting with Teague unless Lawson or a quality big are coming back. Teague may never amount to anything but I'm not ready to take that chance with him as a throw in at this point. I'd gladly give them Crawford, Teague and Jordan if they'd give us Lawson and just about any salary filler. Hell I'd be willing to take Harrington and his 5 year contract off of their hands if they'd give us Lawson!

[spotatl]

You honestly think they'd make that trade?

Which one? Both would be dependent on the Nuggets trading Melo and going in a different direction. For the first trade they woudl do it to make Lawson the starter and to get a young backup PG. I do think there is a chance that they would do it since I don't think they would pick up Billups' salary for next season.

For the second trade that would Save them 5 million dollars in salary this season (and another 5 million in luxury tax). OF course the problem is that the Hawks would be paying that luxury tax which probably kills the deal. I picked a trade where Denver couldn't easily just sub in Harrington for BIrdman since thats what they would prefer to do. But I'm also sort of assuming that JR Smith isn't going to be back with the team... not sure if that is accurate or not.

I'm not parting with Teague unless Lawson or a quality big are coming back

Teague is mostly just filler to balance out rosters. He would be a backup in Denver and third string in Atlanta so it makes sense to include him. I think that Denver would easily prefer Atlanta's first round pick (or Jordan Crawford) if you want to keep Teague that badly as a third string PG. No chance the Nuggets put Lawson into the deal.

Edited February 9, 2011 by spotatl

[Admin]

Teague is mostly just filler to balance out rosters. He would be a backup in Denver and third string in Atlanta so it makes sense to include him. I think that Denver would easily prefer Atlanta's first round pick (or Jordan Crawford) if you want to keep Teague that badly as a third string PG. No chance the Nuggets put Lawson into the deal.

I don't think that they'd include Lawson with Billups or even that likely that they'd trade Lawson at all, my point is that I wouldn't include Teague in a trade for Billups as we'd be looking at 2 old PG's and no youth behind them going forward so we'd be going into the next draft trying to find a PG of the future at the bottom of the 1st round again and I'd rather give Teague another year or two before I'm ready to give up on him.

[Joker]

I don't think that they'd include Lawson with Billups or even that likely that they'd trade Lawson at all, my point is that I wouldn't include Teague in a trade for Billups as we'd be looking at 2 old PG's and no youth behind them going forward so we'd be going into the next draft trying to find a PG of the future at the bottom of the 1st round again and I'd rather give Teague another year or two before I'm ready to give up on him.

How does getting Billups put us over. He's on the decline and we still would need a center. I like him for this season but what about next. Since we are committed to the future, why spend on Billups. I can understand Nash, he's a difference maker but Billups isn't, just a good PG who's declining. I am not a fan of this in the long run. Short run, absolutely. But the center position is a major issue and no way is trading Smith, Horford, and Joe for that center useful for us. Can Marvin get us that center? Can Bibby get us that center? Who is that center?

[spotatl]

Just because Teague is on the roster does not mean that the Hawks have a young PG to develop. Its not at all clear to me that Teague will even have his fourth year team option picked up. I don't see the ASG being excited to pay Teague 2.5 million for 1 season.

Edited February 9, 2011 by spotatl

[Admin]

Just because Teague is on the roster does not mean that the Hawks have a young PG to develop. Its not at all clear to me that Teague will even have his fourth year team option picked up. I don't see the ASG being excited to pay Teague 2.5 million for 1 season.

Having Teague on the roster as opposed to no young PG at all leaves us more likely to have a PG of the future. I know that people are ready to give up on him but he's still very young and still has limited experience and unlike Acie or Salim we'd be taking a huge risk in giving up on him this early. Now if we can get a younger PG than Bibby like Devin Harris or Mike Conley then I'd be willing to move Teague but I'm not willing to do that for a 35 year old PG who probably only has 1 year left after this.

How does getting Billups put us over. He's on the decline and we still would need a center. I like him for this season but what about next. Since we are committed to the future, why spend on Billups. I can understand Nash, he's a difference maker but Billups isn't, just a good PG who's declining. I am not a fan of this in the long run. Short run, absolutely. But the center position is a major issue and no way is trading Smith, Horford, and Joe for that center useful for us. Can Marvin get us that center? Can Bibby get us that center? Who is that center?

Billups really isn't declining though. And yes I know you're not going to be willing to look at stats but they're the only factual evidence available and the stats show that he's still performing at roughly the same level that he's been at for years now.

SEASON			FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2002-03 		.421	.878	20.6	4.7	4.9	58.2	19.8	9.2	22.8	7.0	21.10

2003-04 		.394	.878	19.1	4.0	6.5	55.0	24.3	10.3	22.9	5.8	18.66

2004-05 		.443	.898	18.4	3.8	6.5	60.9	26.9	10.4	20.6	5.5	19.06

2005-06 		.418	.894	20.4	3.4	9.6	60.2	33.1	8.1	23.4	5.1	23.43

2006-07 		.427	.883	18.8	3.7	7.9	59.1	30.4	8.5	21.8	5.5	21.38

2007-08 		.448	.918	21.0	3.4	8.4	61.9	30.1	9.1	23.5	5.0	23.48

2008-09 		.418	.913	20.1	3.4	7.3	59.2	27.1	9.5	21.3	5.0	18.85

2009-10 		.418	.910	22.9	3.7	6.6	60.1	23.1	10.0	23.6	5.3	20.25

2010-11 		.434	.919	20.2	2.9	6.6	63.4	25.7	12.0	20.4	4.2	18.53

2010-11 (projected)	.419	.915	22.0	3.4	6.6	59.9	24.0	9.4	22.9	4.9	19.95

[/code]

[spotatl]

How does getting Billups put us over.

How does keeping Crawford put the Hawks over? he doesn't but I think that the team is significantly better with Billups than with Crawford. And who cares about their ages when Crawford is an unrestricted free agent?

And I don't think that any fan here would be happy with any realistic trade for a Center that would be an upgrade at the position. So I think that you improve where you can. The Hawks worst position is PG- this gives them a massive upgrade at PG for a guy who very well may be gone next season anyway.

And I think Billups is going to age very well. He is a good shooter who is big for his position and is a very strong help defender. He can easily play off of the ball when the Hawks have Joe, Al, or Josh initiate the offense. I think he is about the perfect player for the Hawks.

Having Teague on the roster as opposed to no young PG at all leaves us more likely to have a PG of the future. I know that people are ready to give up on him but he's still very young and still has limited experience and unlike Acie or Salim we'd be taking a huge risk in giving up on him this early

I really don't see the difference between Acie, Salim, and Teague. For all 3 players the fans here were shouting that the players weren't given enough of a chance or that they were just being misused. But Acie and Salim have both had many other chances and keep getting discarded. Time will tell with Teague. I just think that this is the old "drunk looking for his keys under the lightpost thing" Just because under the lightpost its easier to look doesn't change the probability that the keys are there.

Edited February 9, 2011 by spotatl

[Admin]

I really don't see the difference between Acie, Salim, and Teague. For all 3 players the fans here were shouting that the players weren't given enough of a chance or that they were just being misused. But Acie and Salim have both had many other chances and keep getting discarded. Time will tell with Teague. I just think that this is the old "drunk looking for his keys under the lightpost thing" Just because under the lightpost its easier to look doesn't change the probability that the keys are there.

You don't see the difference in a 4 year college player and a 2 year player? That's quite a bit less experience, which is especially important for someone who doesn't have the potential to come straight into the NBA and start right away.

[spotatl]

With 1.5 years in the league and just half a season until the Hawks have to pick up Teague's 4th year team option I don't see much reason to believe that Teague will develop into a starter than I did with Acie or Salim. Plenty of people here said that Acie and Salim hadn't been given enough time. There are some people who still think Acie just hasn't been given the right opportunity yet. Personally at this point I would treat it as a bonus if Teague can turn into a quality backup. But trading him doesn't at all change the hawks long term outlook at start PG because Teague hasn't shown me anything to make me think he will be able to fill that role.

Teague was the 7th PG taken in the draft? This is probably just an expectations thing. I always thought if he could have turned into a qualiyt backup PG that it would have been a good job of drafting but that for him to turn into a starter it would be a longshot. I just haven't seen anything to make me change my mind.

Edited February 9, 2011 by spotatl

[Joker]

Having Teague on the roster as opposed to no young PG at all leaves us more likely to have a PG of the future. I know that people are ready to give up on him but he's still very young and still has limited experience and unlike Acie or Salim we'd be taking a huge risk in giving up on him this early. Now if we can get a younger PG than Bibby like Devin Harris or Mike Conley then I'd be willing to move Teague but I'm not willing to do that for a 35 year old PG who probably only has 1 year left after this.

Billups really isn't declining though. And yes I know you're not going to be willing to look at stats but they're the only factual evidence available and the stats show that he's still performing at roughly the same level that he's been at for years now.

SEASON			FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2002-03 		.421	.878	20.6	4.7	4.9	58.2	19.8	9.2	22.8	7.0	21.10

2003-04 		.394	.878	19.1	4.0	6.5	55.0	24.3	10.3	22.9	5.8	18.66

2004-05 		.443	.898	18.4	3.8	6.5	60.9	26.9	10.4	20.6	5.5	19.06

2005-06 		.418	.894	20.4	3.4	9.6	60.2	33.1	8.1	23.4	5.1	23.43

2006-07 		.427	.883	18.8	3.7	7.9	59.1	30.4	8.5	21.8	5.5	21.38

2007-08 		.448	.918	21.0	3.4	8.4	61.9	30.1	9.1	23.5	5.0	23.48

2008-09 		.418	.913	20.1	3.4	7.3	59.2	27.1	9.5	21.3	5.0	18.85

2009-10 		.418	.910	22.9	3.7	6.6	60.1	23.1	10.0	23.6	5.3	20.25

2010-11 		.434	.919	20.2	2.9	6.6	63.4	25.7	12.0	20.4	4.2	18.53

2010-11 (projected)	.419	.915	22.0	3.4	6.6	59.9	24.0	9.4	22.9	4.9	19.95

I was wrong statistically. I stopped watching the Nuggs awhile back. When I watched, he seemed sluggish but that could be because of WC. He looks to be just as good as he's been the last two seasons.

Anyway, why would they trade for Jamal. They don't need a 6th man. They have Smith. They don't need cap, they have a lot of it. They like Billups and he likes them. I don't see why they would trade him. If they get Bynum, wouldn't Nene be the one on the block. I know we can't get him either. Too little value for Smoove, too much value for Jamal. He will probably go to Philly for Iggy.

Billups

Affalo

Iggy

Martin

Bynum

Smith

Lawson

Birdman

Harrington

Shelden

That's a playoff team who isn't much worst than they already are. In fact, they have a top five true center, two top 15 PG's, a top 10 SF, a lot of depth. They are more built to compete now, might as well. I think Andre Miller, Nash, Mayo, or Brooks is the best we are going to do at PG. And two of them are highly unlikely.

[coachx]

Anyway, why would they trade for Jamal. They don't need a 6th man. Billups

Its called cap relief. Crawford is an expiring contract and Billups is not. Its just that simple.

That is why the Hawks traded Rasheed to the Pistons for a bunch of expiring contracts.

If they move Carmelo they will be in full blown rebuilding mode. Its too late to build around a 35 year old PG as your best player.

[Joker]

Its called cap relief. Crawford is an expiring contract and Billups is not. Its just that simple.

That is why the Hawks traded Rasheed to the Pistons for a bunch of expiring contracts.

If they move Carmelo they will be in full blown rebuilding mode. Its too late to build around a 35 year old PG as your best player.

They have a lot of capspace for next year with Billups on the roster. The only way they don't is if they trade Melo for Bynum. If they do that then Nene is traded and cap would be irrelevant. Either way, I wish you read everything I wrote. That way you wouldn't have to quote what I've stated already.

[spotatl]

I think they might do it because They want Lawson to be the starter and BIllups is guaranteed 4 million next season. That 4 million isn't likely to be paid by them, Because of the right of setoff the Nuggets likely wouldn't owe close to that amount of money but still if Billups isn't in the long term plans then it would be better for them to have that 4 million wiped off. I think it would make mroe sense as a 3 way trade- but honestly its tough to find a landing spot for Crawford where he would make sense and who has expiring contracts (plus something Denver wants). Indiana is about the best fit I can find but its not clear what they would be willing to give up in assets to acquire crawford.

[Joker]

I think they might do it because They want Lawson to be the starter and BIllups is guaranteed 4 million next season. That 4 million isn't likely to be paid by them, Because of the right of setoff the Nuggets likely wouldn't owe close to that amount of money but still if Billups isn't in the long term plans then it would be better for them to have that 4 million wiped off. I think it would make mroe sense as a 3 way trade- but honestly its tough to find a landing spot for Crawford where he would make sense and who has expiring contracts (plus something Denver wants). Indiana is about the best fit I can find but its not clear what they would be willing to give up in assets to acquire crawford.

They never said they want Lawson to be the starter. That's like someone who is a Thunder fan saying, Atlanta wants Horford at PF, that must mean they will trade Smith for Green and Collison. They want Billups. Regardless of our need and my feelings, I have not heard they want to part with Billups. Only time I have even heard mention of it was for NJ and they were getting Devin Harris in return. They don't have any reason to trade him for Jamal. They just don't. Crawford can get you some value but not that much. We can get a decent starter and picks or castaways or something. But we can't get an Billups for him unless they need to trade Billups. Since they don't, it's just as unlikely as Nash to Atlanta.

PG's that HS want over the last year

Nash

Billups

Devin Harris

Andre Miller

Curry

Calderon- five posters at max

Mo Williams-five posters at max

Mayo- Me and three or four others

Brooks -Diesel and two or three others

Lowry- two posters at max

Bynum- two posters at max

Baron- two posters at max

Jack- two posters at max

Duhon- one

Ridour-one

SG

Ellis

SF

Melo

C

Dwight Howard

Nene

Hibbert

B. Lopez

Okafor-10 posters

McGee-10 posters

Biedrins- 3 posters

DeAndre Jordan- one poster

Jeff Foster- Diesel

Thabeet- Just me

The ones without posters were liked by a majority of HS. How many are realistic?

PG's that HS want over the last year

Nash

Billups

Devin Harris

Andre Miller

Curry

Calderon- five posters at max

Mo Williams-five posters at max

Mayo- Me and three or four others

Brooks -Diesel and two or three others

Lowry- two posters at max

Bynum- two posters at max

Baron- two posters at max

Jack- two posters at max

Duhon- one

Ridour-one

SG

Ellis

SF

Melo

C

Dwight Howard

Nene

Hibbert

B. Lopez

Okafor-10 posters

McGee-10 posters

Biedrins- 3 posters

DeAndre Jordan- one poster

Jeff Foster- Diesel

Thabeet- Just me

There you go... The final countdown is here.

[Admin]

They have a lot of capspace for next year with Billups on the roster. The only way they don't is if they trade Melo for Bynum. If they do that then Nene is traded and cap would be irrelevant. Either way, I wish you read everything I wrote. That way you wouldn't have to quote what I've stated already.

Are you assuming that they won't have Melo and Nene or that they won't be traded for equal salary? I have to assume that they'll either keep those players or trade for equal salary and then they have $46 million already on the cap for next year and that's if they don't bring back K-Mart or JR Smith and they don't trade them for non-expiring contracts and I highly doubt that they just let both of those players fall of the cap without bringing one of them back or making a trade, especially in the case of JR Smith who could definitely bring back a quality player.