Hinrich/Armstrong acquired.

[Jody23]

I agree with this to some extent. The move was within the boundaries of tax and what I'd expect the current ownership/management to do and did improve us, even if marginally. (Assuming of course, Kirk works out!)

But you're right, I feel like there is a lot of overvaluing as you say. It took until a day before the draft (after yet another beat down) for Sund to start shopping every player not named Joe or Al. And it wasn't real, because reports are he was asking for way too much. In the end, we went from a 68 pg in 2k11 to a 74. I could only imagine what other teams were actually offering back, but something tells me there was a deal or two that I would have done that Sund wasn't because of how much more than that Sund thinks JOsh is worth.

And here's where an interesting question comes in. When reality sets in and this move didn't help the Hawks fare significantly better in the playoffs than before, what assets will the Hawks then turn to to improve their team? Much to the chagrin of management, their going to come nose to nose with the reality that their only means to significantly improve will be to move one or more of their "core" (I hate that word) and the next two people in line to see the door maybe Marvin and Josh.

[thecampster]

For those that don't understand how Hinrich makes us better, I'm going to lay out floor impact for you.

Offense - prediction improvement of 5-7 points a game.

Fast break opportunities. Kirk's better defense on the other end of the floor should lead to a couple of fast break opportunities a game.

JJ - JJ will not have to create his shot as often (let's say 30% less often). Kirk's ability to penetrate even on an average level will force opposing points to respect him and keep opposing C/PF's from cheating over toward Joe on the wing. This will give JJ a little more room to get to the lane/come off screens for a catch and shoot.

Marvin - Maybe the biggest recipient of improvement from the change. Kirk's crossover, use of picks and length creates opportunities for slashers going to the rim. Marvin could receive 1-3 more passes moving toward the basket a game. Bibby's height was a hinderance to this effect as small point guards must create space with speed (something Bibby lacked) to create passing lanes in traffic. Additionally, penetration increases the amount of time a player like Marvin will have to line up his jumpers. I contend Marvin being hurried on his long jumpers was as much of an issue as confidence and talent.

Josh/Al - Requiring less top side screens, less full length of the court screens for advancing the ball, less isolation to get their shots should do wonders for Josh's FG% and Al's touches.

Bench - I fully expect the play of the starters to rub off on the scrubs and most importantly Jeff Teague. Jeff has been watching the polar opposite of himself talent wise and has learned little. Hinrich's talent is a closer match to Teague's and should serve as a better model.

Defense - prediction - improvement varied depending on opponent.

First of all, better offensive efficiency, should lead to less fast break opportunities for the opposition every game.

JJ - No longer saddled with having to guard the opposition's best guard by default will simplify the defensive assignments for JJ. Giving him fresher legs and better focus on the other end of the floor. Less switching and more passing means more opportunities for steals and equals more jump shots / less slashing for JJ's man to guard.

Marvin - probably the least benefit as he was not used to switch or guard much due to Bibby's deficiencies.

Josh - biggest recipient. Not having to step out constantly to stop penetration should give Josh more block opportunities as he's in better position to guard his man and get rebounds.

Al - Same answer as Josh.

Bench - When Bibby was on the floor with bench (especially with Jamal), it was a horrific site. With no natural second team shot blocker, teams ran at us at will with their second units. When Kirk is on the floor and now without Mo Evans and Bibby, penetration should be stopped long before the circle on a much more consistant basis.

[tremor]

Plus freakin' one for campster once again.

How can anyone think Hinrich is not an upgrade over Bibby is beyond me.

[terrell]

For those that don't understand how Hinrich makes us better, I'm going to lay out floor impact for you.

Offense - prediction improvement of 5-7 points a game.

Fast break opportunities. Kirk's better defense on the other end of the floor should lead to a couple of fast break opportunities a game.

JJ - JJ will not have to create his shot as often (let's say 30% less often). Kirk's ability to penetrate even on an average level will force opposing points to respect him and keep opposing C/PF's from cheating over toward Joe on the wing. This will give JJ a little more room to get to the lane/come off screens for a catch and shoot.

Marvin - Maybe the biggest recipient of improvement from the change. Kirk's crossover, use of picks and length creates opportunities for slashers going to the rim. Marvin could receive 1-3 more passes moving toward the basket a game. Bibby's height was a hinderance to this effect as small point guards must create space with speed (something Bibby lacked) to create passing lanes in traffic. Additionally, penetration increases the amount of time a player like Marvin will have to line up his jumpers. I contend Marvin being hurried on his long jumpers was as much of an issue as confidence and talent.

Josh/Al - Requiring less top side screens, less full length of the court screens for advancing the ball, less isolation to get their shots should do wonders for Josh's FG% and Al's touches.

Bench - I fully expect the play of the starters to rub off on the scrubs and most importantly Jeff Teague. Jeff has been watching the polar opposite of himself talent wise and has learned little. Hinrich's talent is a closer match to Teague's and should serve as a better model.

Defense - prediction - improvement varied depending on opponent.

First of all, better offensive efficiency, should lead to less fast break opportunities for the opposition every game.

JJ - No longer saddled with having to guard the opposition's best guard by default will simplify the defensive assignments for JJ. Giving him fresher legs and better focus on the other end of the floor. Less switching and more passing means more opportunities for steals and equals more jump shots / less slashing for JJ's man to guard.

Marvin - probably the least benefit as he was not used to switch or guard much due to Bibby's deficiencies.

Josh - biggest recipient. Not having to step out constantly to stop penetration should give Josh more block opportunities as he's in better position to guard his man and get rebounds.

Al - Same answer as Josh.

Bench - When Bibby was on the floor with bench (especially with Jamal), it was a horrific site. With no natural second team shot blocker, teams ran at us at will with their second units. When Kirk is on the floor and now without Mo Evans and Bibby, penetration should be stopped long before the circle on a much more consistant basis.

I hope your're right. I'm actually excited to watch Kirk Hinrich play tonight. Never said that before. lol! After watching Bibby for the last couple of years, I'd probably be excited to see just about anybody. I just hope LD doesnt put Crawford in when Hinrich gets a rest. Need to let Jamal backup JJ, especially with "Mo is less" out of the picture. JAMAL IS NOT A PG! Go ahead and let Teague backup Hinrich. He actually looked good out there wed when he was on the floor with guys that could actually play. Zaza, Mo, Powell, etc... would make Magic Johnson look bad. lol! That's usually who he's out there with. How many assists would Teague have if Zaza could catch, or Mo, Powell, etc.. could shoot? lol! Edited February 25, 2011 by terrell

[Duff_Man]

I just tweeted at Sekou to thank him for being the first to FINALLY address the issue. It's a damn shame that no one has been willing to discuss how the Hawks made a big mistake in drafting Marvin Williams when they needed a point guard, only to miss out on Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Perhaps now this terrible error will now see the light of day. It's surprising that it never had any mention.

Oooh...burn! Oh snap!

[terrell]

Oooh...burn! Oh snap!

This is why Marvin needs to go. Too many bad memories.

[Guest]

I just tweeted at Sekou to thank him for being the first to FINALLY address the issue. It's a damn shame that no one has been willing to discuss how the Hawks made a big mistake in drafting Marvin Williams when they needed a point guard, only to miss out on Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Perhaps now this terrible error will now see the light of day. It's surprising that it never had any mention.

The Marvin Williams/Cris Paul/Deron Williams have been "addressed, re-addressed, discussed, talked about and what-ever else" to death....Selou wasn't the first and he definitely won't be the last. When we got Bibby it was talked about, when we drafted Acie and Teague it was talked about....everyone and their Mama know it was a big mistake...nothing to see hear, keep on moving....wonder what Sekou had to say about it when he was covering the Hawks.

[coachx]

And here's where an interesting question comes in. When IF reality sets in and this move didn't help the Hawks fare significantly better in the playoffs than before, what assets will the Hawks then turn to to improve their team? Much to the chagrin of management, their going to come nose to nose with the reality that their only means to significantly improve will be to move one or more of their "core" (I hate that word) and the next two people in line to see the door maybe Marvin and Josh.

Of course......if the core can't take you any further then its time to change that core. However, we have to wait for reality to happen.

Its not like we could have gottem much for that pick in the 20's had we held on to it and not likely they could have drafted a player to break the 8 man rotation either.