Do you think Smoove could get us Howard?

[Diesel]

I often forget that Horf is technically a latino connection player. That I will grant you but that makes him more of Houston/Miami/LA type of player.

As far as the Joe thing goes, you are right but I was speaking "over the top" so to speak. Showing that you could give them tons of value and take away a headache and they still would not trade him inside the division. Even more importantly, they would be less inclined to trade him for Horford because you really can't leave Josh/Howard and JJ on the same team. I would submit that Howard/Josh/JJ, trumps Lebron/Wade/Bosh because rebounding and defense wins championships. Even more so, having Dwight playing the middle makes Jeff Teague a 10 assist a game guy. You can't front Teague on drives to the lane because he'll just dump it to Howard when you double off.....Having a 3 point threat, other offensive option in Joe would make Dwight nearly unstoppable. I just can't see Orlando handing us 60 win seasons like that.

Weather they trade him in the division is going to be a effect of weather or not Howard demands.

In 2012, Horf will be making 12 Million.

Our cap will be at 58 Million if we don't do anything to drastric right now.

If the cap is set at 65 with the Luxury tax at 75, we would have enough to trade Horford for Howard.. or to trade Horf fo picks and go after Howard outright.

Howard wouldn't get the max, but he'd be really close.

So if Howard says, i want to play for the Hawks, trade me or lose me.. the Magic has to consider.. We can lose him for nothing. or we can trade him and get back Horf and whatever else we want from the Hawks to make up the difference.

Because of Arenas, Hedo, Nelson, Reddick, Bass, and Duhon... Orlando is in no position to lose Howard and gain something. They would indeed trade him to us if Howard prompts them to.

[sasuke]

No

No

No

No

No

No

No

PS: Friendship is overrated by trade theorists.

[NJHAWK]

It really depends on the cba. There may be a franchise tag. They may decide to play a year or two with no cap. You just dont know right now. Trading in the division doesnt really matter in the nba anyway. Its the conference that matters for nba playoffs. I mean the Magic would have to face him I think one extra time then they would if he got traded to NY or Philly. Thats not really a big deal. Im sure they would rather send him west.

Edited June 16, 2011 by NJHAWK

[Swatguy]

It could happen. I believe the trade though would be, Al and Joe plus a #1 for Dwight and Arenas. Maybe two #1's.

[Diesel]

It could happen. I believe the trade though would be, Al and Joe plus a #1 for Dwight and Arenas. Maybe two #1's.

Doubtful. Though they may hate Arenas' contract, when 2012 comes, Arenas' contract is short. Probably one more year or less. They will be looking to go into rebuilding mode. Joe will not be in that number.

Probably Horf, some number 1s and a young player.

[AHF]

Arenas' contract is not that exciting for anyone at this point:

2012 - $19,269,307

2013 - $20,807,921

2014 - $22,346,535

This is one of many reasons I was strongly against all the people here that were psyched to trade for him.

[dlpin]

I really doubt Howard ends up in Atlanta. And to preempt accusations of homerism, I doubt he'd end up on the celtics either. First, friendship is overrated in terms of trade. How many of you would move cities to be closer to friends?

Second, he claims he might leave to join a championship contender. in that case, what does Atlanta offer (or Boston, for that matter) that is a definitive, significant upgrade in terms of title chances? Are JJ, Teague, Smith and Drew (assuming Horford is who they trade) that big an improvement over Richardson, Nelson, Bass and Van Gundy? I am not saying that the hawks pieces aren't better than the magic's, but the question is if they are sufficiently better to warrant him alienating his original fan base? The lakers and the bulls I think would be the clear favorites (add NJ if the move to NY goes smoothly, and NY if they get enough pieces to trade for him).

[Swatguy]

I really doubt Howard ends up in Atlanta. And to preempt accusations of homerism, I doubt he'd end up on the celtics either. First, friendship is overrated in terms of trade. How many of you would move cities to be closer to friends?

Second, he claims he might leave to join a championship contender. in that case, what does Atlanta offer (or Boston, for that matter) that is a definitive, significant upgrade in terms of title chances? Are JJ, Teague, Smith and Drew (assuming Horford is who they trade) that big an improvement over Richardson, Nelson, Bass and Van Gundy? I am not saying that the hawks pieces aren't better than the magic's, but the question is if they are sufficiently better to warrant him alienating his original fan base? The lakers and the bulls I think would be the clear favorites (add NJ if the move to NY goes smoothly, and NY if they get enough pieces to trade for him).

Hmm...First, Dwight would not be " would move cities to be closer to friends?", he'd be moving back home. Dwight indeed grew up Atlanta dreaming of playing in the NBA for the Hawks.

Secondly, These last playoff Hawks beat Chicago with Dwight instead of Al. In fact, most any team with Dwight becomes a contender. Orlando was a contender before it was traded away. Even then the were viewed as a contender.

" the question is if they are sufficiently better to warrant him alienating his original fan base? "

Pul-ease. The fan-base in Orlando is significant but the potential fan base of 5.7 million in Atlanta is staggering. Philips is packed Haks have 20 TNT-ESPN dates.

[AHF]

If Dwight is going for sure, Horford would be a great get for Orlando. Look at what Cleveland got for Lebron, Toronto got for Bosh, etc.

[dlpin]

Hmm...First, Dwight would not be " would move cities to be closer to friends?", he'd be moving back home. Dwight indeed grew up Atlanta dreaming of playing in the NBA for the Hawks.

Secondly, These last playoff Hawks beat Chicago with Dwight instead of Al. In fact, most any team with Dwight becomes a contender. Orlando was a contender before it was traded away. Even then the were viewed as a contender.

" the question is if they are sufficiently better to warrant him alienating his original fan base? "

Pul-ease. The fan-base in Orlando is significant but the potential fan base of 5.7 million in Atlanta is staggering. Philips is packed Haks have 20 TNT-ESPN dates.

Well, first, I was responding to this thread, titled "do you think Smoove could get us Howard."

Second, the Hawks beat the Magic, not Chicago. And while almost any team becomes a contender with Howard, that doesn't make Atlanta specifically appealing. If we take him at his word that he would only leave for a top contender, the fact that the hawks would become a contender doesn't change the fact that there are much better teams out there for contention purposes. Again, my point wasn't about denying that the Hawks would be a contender with Howard, or that the pieces around him here would be better than the pieces around him in Orlando. Just that it doesn't make the hawks anywhere close to the same level of a contender as other places.

As for the fan base, it doesn't matter what the fan base in Atlanta is like in comparison to Orlando -20th in attendance this year, for the record (and it doesn't matter how many nationally televised games the hawks have now, wherever he ends up he'll end up on national tv). What matters is in comparison to NY, LA, etc.

So in the end the only thing that Atlanta really has going for it is being his hometown. And other than Melo, who happens to be from the biggest NBA market of them all, I don't remember a single NBA star demanding a trade just to go to their hometown. I mean, Howard doesn't even live in Atlanta in the offseason, so I don't think this would be a top priority for him.

None of this is meant as a disrespect to the Hawks, but Howard has already listed his preferences in the past (lakers, nets, mavs, etc) and didn't include the hawks then.

If Dwight is going for sure, Horford would be a great get for Orlando. Look at what Cleveland got for Lebron, Toronto got for Bosh, etc.

That would be a great get, no doubt. But Lebron and Bosh aren't the best comparisons because the heat could sign them outright, something the hawks can't. So the best comparison would be Melo and the knicks (and Horford would still be a good deal in comparison to that).

Edited June 17, 2011 by dlpin

[Swatguy]

I mean, Howard doesn't even live in Atlanta in the offseason, so I don't think this would be a top priority for him.

Dwight indeed has property here.

When did Dwight "Howard has already listed his preferences in the past (lakers, nets, mavs, etc) and didn't include the hawks then." do this?

Stop making up stuff.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Swatguy

[AHF]

Well, first, I was responding to this thread, titled "do you think Smoove could get us Howard."

Second, the Hawks beat the Magic, not Chicago. And while almost any team becomes a contender with Howard, that doesn't make Atlanta specifically appealing. If we take him at his word that he would only leave for a top contender, the fact that the hawks would become a contender doesn't change the fact that there are much better teams out there for contention purposes. Again, my point wasn't about denying that the Hawks would be a contender with Howard, or that the pieces around him here would be better than the pieces around him in Orlando. Just that it doesn't make the hawks anywhere close to the same level of a contender as other places.

As for the fan base, it doesn't matter what the fan base in Atlanta is like in comparison to Orlando -20th in attendance this year, for the record (and it doesn't matter how many nationally televised games the hawks have now, wherever he ends up he'll end up on national tv). What matters is in comparison to NY, LA, etc.

So in the end the only thing that Atlanta really has going for it is being his hometown. And other than Melo, who happens to be from the biggest NBA market of them all, I don't remember a single NBA star demanding a trade just to go to their hometown. I mean, Howard doesn't even live in Atlanta in the offseason, so I don't think this would be a top priority for him.

None of this is meant as a disrespect to the Hawks, but Howard has already listed his preferences in the past (lakers, nets, mavs, etc) and didn't include the hawks then.

That would be a great get, no doubt. But Lebron and Bosh aren't the best comparisons because the heat could sign them outright, something the hawks can't. So the best comparison would be Melo and the knicks (and Horford would still be a good deal in comparison to that).

The difference is ghat Dwight won't have a gun to his head like Melo. Melo wanted his $$ and couldn't get it in FA due to the expiration of the CBA. Dwight won't have that issue.

For him to have leverage, all he has to do is convince Orlando he will walk - he doesn't have to convince Magic management that the Hawks are that team. Once Orlando understands they will lose him for nothing, he can ID acceptable trade targets among teams over the cap if he wants which could be the group in which the Hawks would be if Dwight wanted to join Smoove. It is up to Dwight and the only leverage for the Magic is delay - not much compared to the leverage Denver had on Melo.

[MaceCase]

The Magic can go the Utah route and just trade him to the highest bidder before he knows what hits him, have him be that team's headache to resign him. If that's the case the Hawks will be mighty pressed offering up just Horf when other teams like the Lakers would take Gil, Hedo and his mother on their squad just to get Dwight.

[dlpin]

Dwight indeed has property here.

When did Dwight "Howard has already listed his preferences in the past (lakers, nets, mavs, etc) and didn't include the hawks then." do this?

Stop making up stuff.

Having property here is not the same as living here. His offseason home is in seminole county, florida:

http://www.seminolemagazine.com/DwightHowardA09webed.htm

As for listing his prefences:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4677903/dwight-howard-to-dallas

And that is only one of the articles that links him consistently with the same teams.

So please, next time you feel like accusing people of stuff like that just because they disagree with you, spare me the condescension. I never lacked with respect towards anyone here and I would think expecting the same in return is not too much to ask.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

At least dlpin is keeping it real on this topic.

Dwight is the same dude that has had snide remarks about the Hawks for a year or two now. He doesn't respect a single soul on this team as a basketball player ( and that probably includes Josh Smith ).

If Dwight had EVER talked about playing with the Hawks when he tossed out those list of teams he would go to, that would be one thing. But this season, he even went as far as saying that he hated to lose to the Hawks.

Why?

Because he thought we were inferior to him and the Magic.

But now, because he and Smith are friends, he's going to come to Atlanta just to play with Smith and try to win the Hawks an NBA title?

Nope . . not buying it.

[Diesel]

The Magic can go the Utah route and just trade him to the highest bidder before he knows what hits him, have him be that team's headache to resign him. If that's the case the Hawks will be mighty pressed offering up just Horf when other teams like the Lakers would take Gil, Hedo and his mother on their squad just to get Dwight.

That's when you enter Danny Manning terroritory.

Dwight really gets to call his shot. If they trade him to say NJ and he doesn't want to be there, he's a 1 yr rental.

So the issue is, if Dwight really wants to be here, I think we can package one of the best deals for Orlando. You lose a Howard, you gain a Horf, Filler, and picks.

[Swatguy]

Having property here is not the same as living here. His offseason home is in seminole county, florida:

http://www.seminolemagazine.com/DwightHowardA09webed.htm

Of course he has a palace in Orlando and he has Properties here also. Where the guy lives in the offseason doesn't mean it is where he works. Many guys live in Atlanta.

As for listing his prefences:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4677903/dwight-howard-to-dallas

And that is only one of the articles that links him consistently with the same teams.

So please, next time you feel like accusing people of stuff like that just because they disagree with you, spare me the condescension. I never lacked with respect towards anyone here and I would think expecting the same in return is not too much to ask.

My apologies. I had not seen that article. I have not heard the list (from Dwight). I suspect it is more Fagen's list than Dwight. Where are the other links?

Edited June 17, 2011 by Swatguy

[Diesel]

As for listing his prefences:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4677903/dwight-howard-to-dallas

And that is only one of the articles that links him consistently with the same teams.

So please, next time you feel like accusing people of stuff like that just because they disagree with you, spare me the condescension. I never lacked with respect towards anyone here and I would think expecting the same in return is not too much to ask.

Trade talk

About an hour before Friday's tipoff, the talk in the Magic's locker room wasn't about Game 3.

It was about Howard's future.

Ric Bucher, ESPN's sideline reporter on Friday, walked into the dressing room, prompting some playful banter from Howard, who can become a free agent after the 2011-12 season.

Bucher had written in a recent ESPN.com chat that he "would expect a Dwight trade this summer or before the next season starts, from what I'm hearing."

Howard, who has grown tired of the speculation, jokingly asked Bucher, "So, where am I going?"

You do know that Bucher can't be trusted right?

[MaceCase]

That's when you enter Danny Manning terroritory.

Dwight really gets to call his shot. If they trade him to say NJ and he doesn't want to be there, he's a 1 yr rental.

So the issue is, if Dwight really wants to be here, I think we can package one of the best deals for Orlando. You lose a Howard, you gain a Horf, Filler, and picks.

Like I said with Utah, that's not the Magic's problem anymore, that would be the Nets. They and plenty other teams would put together packages that either gives the Magic more or better prospects and a chance to clear out some of their awful contracts. Jersey did it when they acquired Deron and you can even say that Orlando did it with Jason Richardson seeing as he was the best player they traded for and is a free agent this summer. There are far more examples in recent history of guys being traded wherever at the end of their contracts than just Danny Manning so that's not a hindrance to Orlando's plans. If Dwight was ever to make the stupid declaration that he really wants to be here knowing full well that the team can't sign him then Orlando will surely ask for far more than just Horf, crap filler and picks in the 20s but rather would start the bidding at Horf and Smoove plus Teague for him to ever throw on a red blue and silver jersey.

[Diesel]

Like I said with Utah, that's not the Magic's problem anymore, that would be the Nets. They and plenty other teams would put together packages that either gives the Magic more or better prospects and a chance to clear out some of their awful contracts. Jersey did it when they acquired Deron and you can even say that Orlando did it with Jason Richardson seeing as he was the best player they traded for and is a free agent this summer. There are far more examples in recent history of guys being traded wherever at the end of their contracts than just Danny Manning so that's not a hindrance to Orlando's plans. If Dwight was ever to make the stupid declaration that he really wants to be here knowing full well that the team can't sign him then Orlando will surely ask for far more than just Horf, crap filler and picks in the 20s but rather would start the bidding at Horf and Smoove plus Teague for him to ever throw on a red blue and silver jersey.

Well, that's just the thing, you're ignoring the fact that we could clear out space to sign Howard. Either Horf could go to Orlando in a SNT or we can trade Horf to a team like NJ (to be their new PF) for picks and we can sign Howard outright. Sorta like we did to get Deke.

My contention is that if Howard demanded to Orlando that they send him to Atlanta or he walks, they would have to take our deal seriously. Because even if we don't get him, if he walked, they won't have him and they have nothing to replace him. They deal with us, they get a C who has been an allstar and is still young plus whatever else we would give.