Do you think Smoove could get us Howard?

[AHF]

My contention is that if Howard demanded to Orlando that they send him to Atlanta or he walks, they would have to take our deal seriously. Because even if we don't get him, if he walked, they won't have him and they have nothing to replace him. They deal with us, they get a C who has been an allstar and is still young plus whatever else we would give.

I agree. I just think it is very unlikely that Howard demands they send him to Atlanta.

[capstone21]

I agree. I just think it is very unlikely that Howard demands they send him to Atlanta.

why would he ever demand to be sent here? If he ever demands to be sent anywhere it will be to a big market team where his profile can be raised and he has a chance to win.

Our chance is if he lists some teams and we are one of them.

[Swatguy]

why would he ever demand to be sent here? If he ever demands to be sent anywhere it will be to a big market team where his profile can be raised and he has a chance to win.

Our chance is if he lists some teams and we are one of them.

The term "Big Market" seems vague. Can you/we define "Big Market"?

Is it as New York, Chicago and LA are the only big market or are they the "Biggest Markets"?

Are populations of 5-6 miliion big markets?

Edited June 17, 2011 by Swatguy

[MaceCase]

Well, that's just the thing, you're ignoring the fact that we could clear out space to sign Howard. Either Horf could go to Orlando in a SNT or we can trade Horf to a team like NJ (to be their new PF) for picks and we can sign Howard outright. Sorta like we did to get Deke.

My contention is that if Howard demanded to Orlando that they send him to Atlanta or he walks, they would have to take our deal seriously. Because even if we don't get him, if he walked, they won't have him and they have nothing to replace him. They deal with us, they get a C who has been an allstar and is still young plus whatever else we would give.

And you are missing my point entirely. They can assume he's leaving and ship him to whoever the hell gives them the best offer before the deadline. The entire purpose of me bringing up Utah in the first place is that they traded Deron before he became an issue, they didn't allow themselves to be held hostage like Denver was with Melo in fact they took advantage of that situation.

The Magic will not be satisfied with just Horf on a team with Hedo, Arenas, Duhon and Richardson, that team is going nowhere and has no flexibility to go anywhere. They will deal with a team that will not only give them prospects but also massive savings, the Nets and LA don't mind doing this and they will do so with the utmost confidence in being able to retain him afterwards given their markets and who else they have on their teams. The Hawks can't clear enough space to get Howard, they would have to drop Horf and another big contract just to be a threat to sign him outright and the Magic do not need to enter into sign and trade negotiations with any team that is not a threat to get Dwight no matter how much he huffed and puffed.

Orlando with a second round pick and massive TPE is no different than Orlando with Horf so again, I don't see that as incentive for them to giftwrap Dwight to a division rival just because he asked.

The term "Big Market" seems vague. Can you/we define "Big Market"?

Atlanta is a big market but bigger markets in NY, LA, CHI, Boston and even Golden State will be competing and have the capabilities for his services in 2012.

[Swatguy]

And you are missing my point entirely. They can assume he's leaving and ship him to whoever the hell gives them the best offer before the deadline. The entire purpose of me bringing up Utah in the first place is that they traded Deron before he became an issue, they didn't allow themselves to be held hostage like Denver was with Melo in fact they took advantage of that situation.

The Magic will not be satisfied with just Horf on a team with Hedo, Arenas, Duhon and Richardson, that team is going nowhere and has no flexibility to go anywhere. They will deal with a team that will not only give them prospects but also massive savings, the Nets and LA don't mind doing this and they will do so with the utmost confidence in being able to retain him afterwards given their markets and who else they have on their teams. The Hawks can't clear enough space to get Howard, they would have to drop Horf and another big contract just to be a threat to sign him outright and the Magic do not need to enter into sign and trade negotiations with any team that is not a threat to get Dwight no matter how much he huffed and puffed.

Orlando with a second round pick and massive TPE is no different than Orlando with Horf so again, I don't see that as incentive for them to giftwrap Dwight to a division rival just because he asked.

Atlanta is a big market but bigger markets in NY, LA, CHI, Boston and even Golden State will be competing and have the capabilities for his services in 2012.

How are Boston and Bay area bigger. There are more people in Atlanta than both. Atlanta has 5.6 million gaining 150,000 annually. Boston at 4.5 gaining about 40,000 a year. Bay area is at 4.4 and gain about 35,000 a year. In 5 years Atlanta is number 5-6 in the country, presently number 8-9. Atlanta is a hot destination for many, many industries domestically and internationally.

I believe the Hawks and the city have to make the better job of marketing. The area is prime for a much larger fanbase which draws the elite athlete. I guess it goes back to ownership. We may need a "Cuban" before we can get a "Dwight"

[Diesel]

why would he ever demand to be sent here? If he ever demands to be sent anywhere it will be to a big market team where his profile can be raised and he has a chance to win.

Our chance is if he lists some teams and we are one of them.

Well, Joe demanded to be here and he's not even from Atlanta. And he didn't know anybody here. That's the premise of the thread. Here's the facts...

1. Howard is from Atlanta.

2. Howard's best friend plays for us. (best friends since 4 yrs old).

3. Howard and Josh often speak of playing together.

4. We have better pieces than Orlando. (we beat them with Howard in the playoffs).

If Howard wanted to leave Orlando, I am asking are these things.. especially #2 and 4 enough to get him to make that demand?

[Diesel]

And you are missing my point entirely. They can assume he's leaving and ship him to whoever the hell gives them the best offer before the deadline.

Again, No team is going to give the Magic a good deal without Howard signing an extension first. No team wants to get burned like that. So at most, Orlando would be looking at albatrose contracts, etc.

Just think about it.

Howard: Trade me to Atlanta or I will walk.

Otis: Atlanta is in our division, no way will trade you to them.

Howard's Agent: They are willing to give you Al Horford, Zaza's ending contract, and 2 first round picks.

Otis: It's still in our division, I will rather trade you while I have the power to...

Call comes in..

Otis: Hello.

Phoenix: Hey, we heard that you're trying to get rid of Howard.. We will give you Childress, Frye, and Pietrus for Him... You know Childress played in Greece. He's like a Greek Jordan!!

Call Comes in..

Otis: Hello

Houston: Hey, we heard that you're trying to get rid of Howard.. We will give you Hasheem Thabeet, Brad Miller, and Jared Jeffries for him. You know Thabeet was trained by Calhoun.

Call Comes in..

Otis: Hello.

Minny: Let me cut to the chase.. For Howard we will give you: Darko, Luke, and Nikola. You know Darko was a #2 pick overall... and you can't lose with a Nikola on your team.

Those are the type of "deals" that Otis will get for an unsigned Howard. Teams trying to dump salary on him.

[capstone21]

Well, Joe demanded to be here and he's not even from Atlanta. And he didn't know anybody here. That's the premise of the thread. Here's the facts...

1. Howard is from Atlanta.

2. Howard's best friend plays for us. (best friends since 4 yrs old).

3. Howard and Josh often speak of playing together.

4. We have better pieces than Orlando. (we beat them with Howard in the playoffs).

If Howard wanted to leave Orlando, I am asking are these things.. especially #2 and 4 enough to get him to make that demand?

I really hope you are right...Howard in an Atlanta Uni would be amazing

[AHF]

Those are the type of "deals" that Otis will get for an unsigned Howard. Teams trying to dump salary on him.

He would command a lot more than that just as a rental. For example, LA would surely give Bynum and picks along with filler Walton, Artest and Blake for Howard and Arenas, for example. They take the risk of Howard walking but also have to like their odds of him staying if they win a title. With Fisher/Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Howard, they would have some nice odds. Orlando picks up a young center and unloads Arenas. Much better than Thabeet, Miller and Jeffries, for example.

[capstone21]

I would rather Horford then Bynum (attitude and injury past) but would Orlando be willing to trade within their own division. Would Howard be willing to stay longterm? What would we have to give up to get Areana's disgusting contract?

[AHF]

What would we have to give up to get Areana's disgusting contract?

Something like: Horford, Zaza, Marvin, Kirk

for Dwight & Arenas

[MaceCase]

How are Boston and Bay area bigger. There are more people in Atlanta than both. Atlanta has 5.6 million gaining 150,000 annually. Boston at 4.5 gaining about 40,000 a year. Bay area is at 4.4 and gain about 35,000 a year. In 5 years Atlanta is number 5-6 in the country, presently number 8-9. Atlanta is a hot destination for many, many industries domestically and internationally.

I believe the Hawks and the city have to make the better job of marketing. The area is prime for a much larger fanbase which draws the elite athlete. I guess it goes back to ownership. We may need a "Cuban" before we can get a "Dwight"

Well I'm sorry you feel so offended by the facts but nearly every list I can find for media rankings has Atlanta ranked behind all of those places but of course you decided to only go after the ones that Atlanta is closest with, how long until Atlanta catches up to NY, CHI, and LA?

And Diesel, the problem with selectively quoting someone is that you tend to miss out on the fact they already addressed your response well before you took the time to write it.

....the Nets and LA don't mind doing this and they will do so with the utmost confidence in being able to retain him afterwards given their markets and who else they have on their teams.

I even brought up the very big example of Deron. What guarantee did or does the Nets have of resigning Deron when they traded last year's number 3 pick, Devin Harris and two first round draft picks one of which turned out to be another number 3 overall pick for him?

If you want to continue with the premise that Dwight want's to forgo:

playing with superstar players

in the largest markets in the world

and for storied franchises

that are in better position to contend with him

in favor of demanding that the Magic break their backs to send him:

to a rival team in not only their conference and division

in a city he does not even live in during the offseason

to play with one of his friends

that will be a free agent not even a year later

then there really is no reason of offering any counterpoints in this thread. One simply can't argue with one's ardent opinion which is rooted in fantasy so why bother?

[capstone21]

The term "Big Market" seems vague. Can you/we define "Big Market"?

Is it as New York, Chicago and LA are the only big market or are they the "Biggest Markets"?

Are populations of 5-6 miliion big markets?

Atlanta may have a good sized population but it does not support the Hawks.

[AHF]

Atlanta may have a good sized population but it does not support the Hawks.

If Atlanta got a big star, I do think that could change. Few of those bandwagon fans will get super excited about a team here with Joe Johnson as the best player. There are a lot of NBA fans here, though, and this is a city that loves a superstar.

[Swatguy]

in a city he does not even live in during the offseason

to play with one of his friends

There are good points and there are poor points. What does it matter if Dwight has a home in Orlando? Are you kidding me? Dwight made 28 million dollars last year. Of course he will have a home in whatever city he works in. Atlanta IS HOME. He has roots and property HERE !! He is not estranged from Atlanta. He had Hawks and 'Nique posters in his bedroom growing up. He is as Atlanta as the varcity and the bounce. So it matters nothing that he spends more time in Orlando than Atlanta in the offseason. Geez.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Swatguy

[Diesel]

He would command a lot more than that just as a rental. For example, LA would surely give Bynum and picks along with filler Walton, Artest and Blake for Howard and Arenas, for example. They take the risk of Howard walking but also have to like their odds of him staying if they win a title. With Fisher/Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Howard, they would have some nice odds. Orlando picks up a young center and unloads Arenas. Much better than Thabeet, Miller and Jeffries, for example.

Just to point this out. Kobe is not getting younger and while I agree Bynum would be a good catch.. if you compare Bynum's health with Horford's health, you got to like the Horf deal more. Why have both Arenas and Bynum (major injury risk with large salaries) if you can help it?

It just depends on what Howard wants. LAL does offer a large media market... but he could make Atlanta a large market by coming.

[MaceCase]

There are good points and there are poor points. What does it matter if Dwight has a home in Orlando? Are you kidding me? Dwight made 28 million dollars last year. Of course he will have a home in whatever city he works in. Atlanta IS HOME. He has roots and property HERE !! He is not estranged from Atlanta. He had Hawks and 'Nique posters in his bedroom. He is as Atlanta as the varcity and the bounce. So it matters nothing that he spends more time in Orlando than Atlanta in the offseason. Geez.

Well if the argument is that he absolutely positively wants to be back "home" then why is it that he doesn't spend every given moment he can at "home"? He lives in Florida and not just because of tax benefits so to end it all, the whole "coming home" reasoning for him to demand to be on the Hawks is rather weak. That is the poorest point of all without a doubt.

Ask Lebron and Wade how important playing at home is. And as far as his relationship with Smoove, well gee whiz it's only survived 7 years of them being opponents playing against each other not to mention that Smoove is a free agent in 2013.

So again, if he's so gung ho about playing for the Hawks then why is it that people can't cite anything more than what he said 8 years ago on draft night? If he absolutely wants to play with Smoove then what's preventing them from going to an actual team that can afford them both, why does it have to be Atlanta? Simply the flimsiest of reasoning yet you want to go around pointing out what's "poor". Gimme a break.

[Swatguy]

Well if the argument is that he absolutely positively wants to be back "home" then why is it that he doesn't spend every given moment he can at "home"? He lives in Florida and not just because of tax benefits so to end it all, the whole "coming home" reasoning for him to demand to be on the Hawks is rather weak. That is the poorest point of all without a doubt.

Ask Lebron and Wade how important playing at home is. And as far as his relationship with Smoove, well gee whiz it's only survived 7 years of them being opponents playing against each other not to mention that Smoove is a free agent in 2013.

So again, if he's so gung ho about playing for the Hawks then why is it that people can't cite anything more than what he said 8 years ago on draft night? If he absolutely wants to play with Smoove then what's preventing them from going to an actual team that can afford them both, why does it have to be Atlanta? Simply the flimsiest of reasoning yet you want to go around pointing out what's "poor". Gimme a break.

Perhaps you have me confused with the poster that started the thread. I answered him, "It could happen. I believe the trade though would be, Al and Joe plus a #1 for Dwight and Arenas. Maybe two #1's." Never have I said or inferred "Well if the argument is that he absolutely positively wants to be back "home" ". Not me.Furthermore I don't think that is what the argument is about.

No one No one has said he is demanding to "come home". Where do you get this from?

[AHF]

Just to point this out. Kobe is not getting younger and while I agree Bynum would be a good catch.. if you compare Bynum's health with Horford's health, you got to like the Horf deal more. Why have both Arenas and Bynum (major injury risk with large salaries) if you can help it?

It just depends on what Howard wants. LAL does offer a large media market... but he could make Atlanta a large market by coming.

I think Horford is about as good a player as Orlando can hope to get back as a centerpiece for the deal and agree that he is more desirable than Bynum. I am just pointing out the Magic will get some nice talent if they choose to trade Dwight - they won't get the Josh Childress poo-poo platter.

[MaceCase]

Perhaps you have me confused with the poster that started the thread. I answered him, "It could happen. I believe the trade though would be, Al and Joe plus a #1 for Dwight and Arenas. Maybe two #1's." Never have I said or inferred "Well if the argument is that he absolutely positively wants to be back "home" ". Not me.Furthermore I don't think that is what the argument is about.

No one No one has said he is demanding to "come home". Where do you get this from?

I'm sorry, were you not the one swooping in saying that I made a "poor" point about his desire or lack thereof to come "home" to play with his friend? Were you not the one questioning the advantages and size of other media markets in relation to Atlanta? You've spent the past page arguing in favor of Dwight coming to Atlanta the destination and propping up the city as an upcoming media capitol and that his roots are here but now you want to backtrack and say you never once inferred that a major part of the reason he'd force a trade here is because this is home? Perhaps you need to take a moment and reread your responses because by you simply questioning and refuting people saying the opposite you are therefore arguing on the side that you claim you aren't arguing on. I don't have you confused with Diesel but you are right, you do have me rather confused.