Frediocy is finally coming home to roost...

[Eddielives]

So the Red Sox show a manager the door who has led them to 2 world series titles in the last eight years and the Braves show no action to hold this staff accountable for an equally embarrasing season. This is why this town will never, ever be like the Yankees and Boston's of the world. Even the media views any firings as an overreaction. Since when is holding someone accountable for a poor job an overreaction? Being a fan of sports in this town is sometimes very painful.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Eddielives

[CBAreject]

Who takes over for Larry P.? "Larry" Jr. or "Larry" Sr.? Anybody seen Julio Franco around? What's Sheff doing these days?

~lw3

Julio Franco is a great idea. Sheff is very unlikely. Hitting coaches are usually players who didn't make a ton of money in their careers (guys like Milt Thompson and Gerald Perry), because it's usually not worth it for them to take 500,000 per year in their 40's and 50's to leave their families half the year and travel with a team. They also tend to be guys who love the game and just need to be around it or guys who are looking to get into managerial careers. I don't feel like any of those is Sheff. Chipper maybe, but not sheff.

[CBAreject]

So the Red Sox show a manager the door who has led them to 2 world series titles in the last eight years and the Braves show no action to hold this staff accountable for an equally embarrasing season. This is why this town will never, ever be like the Yankees and Boston's of the world. Even the media views any firings as an overreaction. Since when is holding someone accountable for a poor job an overreaction? Being a fan of sports in this town is sometimes very painful.

+1

Tito is the guy who broke the curse in Boston. There were questions about some behaviors in his clubhouse, but it's not his fault that Theo spent about 80 million bucks per season on the team's 3 worst players (Lackey, Dice-K, Crawford) or that Bucholz and Beckett got injured, leaving them with 1 reliable starting pitcher in September.

Two AJC writers (Schultz and Bradley) wrote that Fredi majorly mismanaged the team but then said the answer was NOT to fire Fredi. Schultz's solution was for Fredi to "change". Think about that. The solution to incompetent managing is not for that manager to be replaced but for that manager to learn new tactical, motivational, and asset allocation skills at the age of 50. How likely is it that Fredi will suddenly learn how to manage a bullpen, not give away runs, and motivate men in the offseason? The sports ignorance of this city is sickening.

[jhay610]

Fredi's quote about pitching to Pence with first base open and a .196 hitter on deck (Michael Martinez) with the season on the line was just, well, mind-boggling for a major league manager.

I can't find it now, but he basically said that he thought about it, but the count was already 2-2 and if you walk him 'can you guarantee me that the next guy doesn't draw a walk or get a hit'.

Wow. That is really the coup de grâce to the 2011 season. First of all, that the thought of intentionally walking Pence did not occur to Fredi until that deep in the count. Secondly, it confirms that the guy has no understanding whatsoever of probability.

I can't believe that Fredi is this deficient in real life but he does not represent himself well in interviews.

[CBAreject]

I can't find it now, but he basically said that he thought about it, but the count was already 2-2 and if you walk him 'can you guarantee me that the next guy doesn't draw a walk or get a hit'.

Yes, it's kind of like saying "I'd just as soon have 7 2 off as pocket aces because I've seen 7 2 win and I've seen aces lose". See, stupid people think in all-or-nothing terms. Either something does happen or it doesn't. They think that if there are 2 outcomes, it's 50/50. They have no concept of the relative probabilities of those outcomes. Fredi Gonzalez is incredibly stupid, and the wide majority of Braves fans, including the Atlanta sports writers, have turned a blind eye to that stupidity because of an irrational mancrush.

Have you been following the debates on here about whether Fredi's abysmal understanding of prob/stats matters? There's been a vocal contingent who have blindly supported Fredi all season and called me a hater for pointing out one major tactical gaffe after another. There is just now a national recognition of what an idiot Fredi is. Even Mark Bradley, chief of the Fredi mancrushers, put this same quote in his article today.

I wonder how those squawkers feel now that they spent months passionately arguing against what was clear to some of us then, now that it is blatantly obvious to the city and to the nation.

Anyway, I agree with everything you said, except the part where you say he can't be this deficient in real life (though I can't disagree that you believe it). No, I think Fredi is just this deficient. It would be one thing if he were just poorly articulate and represented himself poorly, but if you've watched the games this season (I have), you've seen just how poorly he thinks. In fact, I'm quite sure he doesn't think at all. I'm not saying he can't...but whether it's for lack of ability or just laziness, he doesn't think. I've never a worse manager/coach for any professional sports team...and I've seen some stinkers.

[Eddielives]

Woh, is the timeline of posts messing up here or am I crazy. Anyway, I see Wren has stepped up and showed Fredi that he makes the final decisions and let Parrish go. I will give Props to Wren for that and saying changes have to be made to the lineup as well. Does Fredi think he runs the show? Why would he say the entire staff is returning only to be rebuked by Wren? Very interesting. At least Wren is showing that the status quo wasn't good enough and is not only replacing the hitting coach but showing Fredi that he shouldn't be so cozy about what's going to happen. Maybe this will light a fire under him as well.

[CBAreject]

Woh, is the timeline of posts messing up here or am I crazy. Anyway, I see Wren has stepped up and showed Fredi that he makes the final decisions and let Parrish go. I will give Props to Wren for that and saying changes have to be made to the lineup as well. Does Fredi think he runs the show? Why would he say the entire staff is returning only to be rebuked by Wren? Very interesting. At least Wren is showing that the status quo wasn't good enough and is not only replacing the hitting coach but showing Fredi that he shouldn't be so cozy about what's going to happen. Maybe this will light a fire under him as well.

Fredi is just really stupid and transparent. He publicly said nobody would be fired because he was rightly scared to death that he would be fired. He isn't quite stupid enough to think Wren doesn't have the authority to fire him or Parrish....almost but not quite.

Like you, I wish some sort of magic "fire" could be lit under Fredi which would teach him the requisite skills to be a competent MLB manager, but that is hoping for the miraculous. The best course of action is to recognize his utter incompetence and replace him with someone who already has those skills. Is it really that hard to understand, Frank Wren?

[CBAreject]

Haha, maybe ESPN purposely mis-titled this article to make light of the mixed messages sent by ATL management:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7040187/atlanta-braves-fire-hitting-coach-larry-parrish-one-season