Houston will pursue Josh Smith if they fail to get Dwight Howard

[Joker]

We disagree on that. I actually like several of Houston players and the one I like the least is actually Scola. He has really bottomed out the last two years. Lowry would be the best PG we've had since Mookie and I'd kill if he gave us what Mookie did. Martin is NOT that bad a defender as you want to put him as. Martin is also a consistent and highly efficient offensive player because unlike Joe Martin WILL get to the free throw line and he DOES make free throws unlike Josh. Plus Martin is on an expiring so if we don't like him then we aren't stuck with.I think your biggest problem with all of this is that you think the Hawks can get a king's ransom for Josh. We can't. He's on an expiring contract and he's a bit of a head case. Teams aren't going to fork over top five picks for that.

Scola is a quality role player. Does his job and brings toughness. The kind of player you want off the bench. Kevin is one dimensional who only excels at scoring. Those players don't work in the NBA. Lowry is the player I like the most of the list of players but for the Hawks the least. He doesn't run a good PnR to create and doesn't create for others. He is basically a defensive minded PG who is a gamer. Which is a good thing but when your SF is a movement guy and spot up guy. Joe is at his best from spot up and Horf is an elite PnR PF. No real value in Lowry. I really see no real gain long term with Lowry in comparisons to Teague. Edited June 26, 2012 by Joker

[Admin]

We can amnesty Joe and have a lot of cap. Win/Win or we can get the 8th seed and continue the treadmill. Too many options. Trading him for garbage isn't one of them.

Great plan! Think the ASG will sign off on spending $25 million to be lucky to replace Joe Johnson's production? I'm guessing no.

HOW MUCH COULD WE SPEND IF WE WERE WILLING TO USE AMNESTY ON JOE?

Using the amnesty provision on JJ would reduce our cap figure by $19,752,645 and the owners would still be stuck paying him a lot of that money. Using amnesty would put JJ in the auction system for people who are below the cap to bid on players and someone would get him cheap through that system. If you assume someone lands him with an $8M bid, the owners start off by paying $11.8M to JJ.

Amnestying Joe and signing a veteran minimum contract in his place would reduce our cap number by $18,898,256 which would bring our total from $63,778,573 (using this figure here to maximize cap space) to $44,880,317.

This would open up a maximum free agent bid of $13,163,683.

So the ASG would be paying roughly $12M to Joe and then another $13M to our mystery free agent for a total of $25M for the right to go from Joe Johnson to whoever the mystery $13M FA is.

[Joker]

Fun game. Without Josh and without a trade, we are Charlotte.

You meant we have no shot at a ring?

[Joker]

Great plan! Think the ASG will sign off on spending $25 million to be lucky to replace Joe Johnson's production? I'm guessing no.

Some team can offer him 8mil a year and cut our losses. It's not like he's Rashard Lewis. Teams are more than willing to pay Joe 8-10 mil without losing sleep.

[Admin]

Scola is a quality role player. Does his job and brings toughness. The kind of player you want off the bench. Kevin is one deminsion who only excels at scoring. Those players don't work in the NBA. Lowry is the player I like the most of the list of players but for the Hawks the least. He doesn't run a good PnR to create and doesn't create for others. He is basically a defensive minded PG who is a gamer. Which is a good thing but when your SF is a movement guy and spot up guy. Joe is at his best from spot up and Horf is an elite PnR PF. No real value in Lowry. I really see no real gain long term with Lowry in comparisons to Teague.

Scola is a very nice player but he's a PF and would do nothing to help the team fix it's dual PF problem. At least Lowry would solve the PG problem or Martin would give us a 2nd near elite scorer. Scola would only be a lesser Josh Smith on defense and in rebounding and about equal on offense.

[GameTime]

One problem with Martin/14 for Smoove is Kevin Martin is a a one year rental. He is gone after next year. So it is basically Smove for a 14 which is laughable. Give me 3 at least 2 picks for the deal.

Another problem is the rule changes has really caused Kevin Martin to decline.

NBA vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson confirmed Wednesday that several new rule interpretations will be a point of emphasis for the league's referees when the regular season begins on Dec. 25.

"Rip-through" moves, in which an offensive player swings the ball into a defender's outstretched arm and then attempts a shot once he has created contact, will be considered non-shooting fouls if the contact begins before the offensive player starts his shooting motion.

Also, on drives to the basket, a shooting foul will be called only if contact occurs after the offensive player has begun his shooting motion, not after he has initiated his leap toward the basket.

"Certain types of contact involving the shooter were all being called in his favor," Jackson said. "It doesn't look good for the game. There was a strong feeling that those types of plays were creating an ill-advised reward for the shooter, often with three free throws."

FTA:

2007: 7.1

2008: 9.5

2009: 10.3

2010: 7.4

2011: 8.4

2012: 4.5

[Joker]

How does keeping Josh and having him walk after next year do anything other than ensure your worst nightmare will come to fruition? Isn't the only way to avoid that to resign Josh or trade him for value?

My worst nightmare is losing deals. Hence why I am here. Losing him for nothing FA is what it is. Losing trades are worse for your franchise than bad drafts especially when you are up and v. the cap.

[GameTime]

Fun game. Without Josh and without a trade, we are Charlotte.

Charlotte is in a better position then Milwaukee; sad to say I know.

[Admin]

You meant we have no shot at a ring?

Let me break it down for you.Hawks in 2013 without Josh Smith (traded for quality player / quality 1st round pick) >= Hawks in 2013 with Josh SmithHawks in 2014 without Josh Smith (traded for quality player / quality 1st round pick) >>>> Hawks in 2014 without Josh Smith (lost for nothing)

[Sothron]

Scola is a quality role player. Does his job and brings toughness. The kind of player you want off the bench. Kevin is one dimensional who only excels at scoring. Those players don't work in the NBA. Lowry is the player I like the most of the list of players but for the Hawks the least. He doesn't run a good PnR to create and doesn't create for others. He is basically a defensive minded PG who is a gamer. Which is a good thing but when your SF is a movement guy and spot up guy. Joe is at his best from spot up and Horf is an elite PnR PF. No real value in Lowry. I really see no real gain long term with Lowry in comparisons to Teague.

The problem Houston has is that he's not being used as a role player, they have to start him. He's really dropped off on both ends of the court the last two seasons and I think it is more than fair to wonder if his body is just breaking down and he's already past his prime. Martin is one dimensional? Perhaps but that one dimension is something he is extremely good at and something our team needs: scoring. He's not out there shooting 39% to make his points. He shoots a high percentage and gets to the stripe. We desperately need that.I think Lowry could be a good PNR point because he does have good vision. He just hasn't had anyone other than Martin or a spot up guy like Budinger to swing the ball out to for set shots. Put him with Horford and his assist numbers go up because Horford could kill from the mid range area.

[Joker]

Scola is a very nice player but he's a PF and would do nothing to help the team fix it's dual PF problem. At least Lowry would solve the PG problem or Martin would give us a 2nd near elite scorer. Scola would only be a lesser Josh Smith on defense and in rebounding and about equal on offense.

Scola and two mid firsts 14/16, hell I would take 14/16/18 for Smith/23. I have no interest in one mid first/Scola for Smith at all. Zero interest. ZERO. NADA. CERO.Our PG problem is we don't have the right type of PG which Lowry isn't either. Our PG problem would still exist.

Let me break it down for you.Hawks in 2013 without Josh Smith (traded for quality player / quality 1st round pick) >= Hawks in 2013 with Josh SmithHawks in 2014 without Josh Smith (traded for quality player / quality 1st round pick) >>>> Hawks in 2014 without Josh Smith (lost for nothing)

Mid first and Kevin Martin is not quality either way. It's mediocrity.

[Joker]

Teague is more than talented enough to play but can't make Horf into a #1 option. Neither can Lowry. While Lowry is a good player as well as better than Jeff as well a he is an elite defender, how much more talented is he than Jeff? He's not. Jeff is just as talented just not as good with no PG skills. Lowry has some PG skills but not enough in areas we need.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Joker

[Joker]

The problem Houston has is that he's not being used as a role player, they have to start him. He's really dropped off on both ends of the court the last two seasons and I think it is more than fair to wonder if his body is just breaking down and he's already past his prime. Martin is one dimensional? Perhaps but that one dimension is something he is extremely good at and something our team needs: scoring. He's not out there shooting 39% to make his points. He shoots a high percentage and gets to the stripe. We desperately need that.I think Lowry could be a good PNR point because he does have good vision. He just hasn't had anyone other than Martin or a spot up guy like Budinger to swing the ball out to for set shots. Put him with Horford and his assist numbers go up because Horford could kill from the mid range area.

Houston misuses everyone. Martin should be off the bench and GT is right about the Kevin Martin rule. Scola should be a 6th-7th man or play less mins. If we lose Smith, we will lose defense. We seen how many times teams attack the paint when Smith is not there, just imagine if Smoove is not there and Martin is on defense. There is a reason why Houston always had a shot blocker on court whenever Martin was playing.Lowry vision is decent. It isn't really good. He has tunnel vision far too much. He is so much like Mookie. Lowry would be best on the Lakers, not the Hawks. He would be so good for the Lakers. You can't be a good PnR because you want him to be. You can watch footage and tell if someone is good or not. Watch Brandon Jennings. He runs really good PnR's. Teague like Lowry uses them for his own offense. Edited June 26, 2012 by Joker

[Buzzard]

Come up with a better deal that gets us closer to winning. Till then pass.

Can say the same to you and add, losing Josh next season for nothing will get us a lot closer to losing than adding a pick and player for Josh will. You are acting like a child who thinks screaming and crying foul is going to fix something.This is the NBA, I am sure if we are shopping Josh due to his trade demand, we are shopping him to every team that has a interest. All Ferry can do is take the best offer made and live with it. I think that applies to us fans as well.

[Joker]

Can say the same to you and add, losing Josh next season for nothing will get us a lot closer to losing than adding a pick and player for Josh will. You are acting like a child who thinks screaming and crying foul is going to fix something.

This is the NBA, I am sure if we are shopping Josh due to his trade demand, we are shopping him to every team that has a interest. All Ferry can do is take the best offer made and live with it. I think that applies to us fans as well.

Decent response. I rest my case. Edited June 26, 2012 by Joker

[Sothron]

Ferry will either find a deal too good to miss at the draft or he'll sit on Josh till the trade deadline. I just can't believe we'd let Josh walk for nothing.

[CJB]

1. We have to trade Josh. It just has to be done, can't let him walk for nothing. That is the worst possible scenario.2. The league knows this (why he should've been traded last year IMO) and we won't get equal value for Josh. But anything is better than losing him for nothing.3. Joker, it isn't always about talent. Josh has tons of talent but can't figure it out and who knows if Teague will ever figure it out also. Production > talent.

[NekiEcko]

I think its going to be this draft because if we are in the playoff during next season, giving away Josh is going to hurt this team more because he would have been with the Hawks for half of season and we are going to be in the playoff hurt then people will be start second-guessing to see if they want to Josh to go all the way. plus the value will be even worst at trade deadline time. That is too dangerous. Trade him now or lose him for nothing.Actually I found this quote by Hawk Str8Talk on Peachtree hoops, and I am think that is how we are feeling that right now, change is almost here, we just got to accept and move on.

there’s not one trade that anyone is going to like, but the chickens have come home to roost. You guys need to get ready for the fact that there’s going to have to be something we like that we give up to move forward. The Horford fans or the Smith fans are going to be upset over the next year and so, it’s time to get prepared for it and then wait for the resulting moves to see if it was a win or lose.So, whether we go the route of building the draft (which folks just are going to have to get used to – this aversion to 1st and 2nd round picks because the past didn’t work out has to STOP) or build assets that can be traded or folks moved to give us cap space to acquire pieces is just what we signed up for when Marvin and Joe got those contracts. So, we can whine and moan about it or take our medicine and move forward. this rodeo has gone as far as it can. I’m not saying we need to give them away, but we have to move pieces to move forward. We can argue about who, but it’s pointless. the player that brings back the highest value – they gotta go. Everyone just get on board with the fact that that’s going to happen. It would be stupid to let Josh Smith play out the string and leave for nothing. He’s not getting an extension without someone else getting traded, so just know that this core is getting broken up and as much as we’d love for it to be Joe and Marvin – that’s just not going to happen.

[Admin]

Scola and two mid firsts 14/16, hell I would take 14/16/18 for Smith/23. I have no interest in one mid first/Scola for Smith at all. Zero interest. ZERO. NADA. CERO.Our PG problem is we don't have the right type of PG which Lowry isn't either. Our PG problem would still exist.Mid first and Kevin Martin is not quality either way. It's mediocrity.

You can prefer whatever you want but that doesn't make it reality. Hell I'd prefer to get Blake Griffin for Josh but that's not happening.

[Joker]

You can prefer whatever you want but that doesn't make it reality. Hell I'd prefer to get Blake Griffin for Josh but that's not happening.

This is like trading Dwight for Joe and Ivan. You want fair value. You aren't asking for the world, just fair value. Asking for Griffin is asking for the world. Orlando fans want a legit all star and another stud like Harden and Ibaka. They don't want Joe and Ivan for Dwight.