Poor coaching down the stretch killed us tonight..

[MoonKnight]

While we played hard enought to win I thought the coaching was very poor down the stretch and greatly contributed to the loss.

Here are three examples:

1) Why was SAR out so long after the Pistons went on the 20 to 2 or so run? It was obvious our O was stagnant w/o SAR yet Stotts kept him out. SAR should have been well rested after having last night off and he will have an off night tuesday. When our margin for victory is so small we need to let it all hang out in order to win. Stotts should have recognized what was happening sooner and brought SAR back in.

2) Why did Stotts insert JV to guard Billups after we took the lead on JT's shot with 25 seconds or so left. Lets see.... The Pistons had Lindsey Hunter and the very physical Billups in the backcourt. Gee, I wonder who was going to get the ball and look to score. So Stotts decides, after a timeout, to put JT on Hunter (good decision) and JV on Billups. WHAT THE #@$%? I almost threw a shoe threw the t.v. after I saw this happening. It was clear Billups was going to try and take JV low, which he did and then drew a shooting foul. Diaw or Glover would have been a great pick to guard Billups at that point of the game b/c Billups would likely had to pass to someone else to take the shot. I knew the game was probably over after I saw this substitution. Stotts has an infatuation with JV that must end. Would Doc Rivers have inserted JV in this spot?

3) Communication after the timeout with 15 seconds left. Maybe SJ is deaf but shouldn't everyone be on the same page after a timeout in this situation. It was clear that SJ and SAR were not on the same page and SJ thought another play had been called when he threw the air ball out of bounds under the basket. I think the coach should ensure that everyone understands the play called before breaking the huddle at such a crucial time in the game. Many of you may debate me on this example.

This was a very sad loss and I feel bad for the team. It seemed every close call by the refs down the stretch went against us. Would those calls have gone against a team with a more recogized or respected coach?

[Weez]

"Would those calls have gone against a team with a more recogized or respected coach"

If they were the coach of the Hawks, yes.

[Plainview1981]

Stop blaming the coach for the fact that the players

suck and can't get the job done. Had they not allowed

the big run it wouldn't have came down to a possession

anyway.

[JTFan31]

I agree in many things. Hawks came out to win tonight and they should do that game in, game out. Defensively we played very well. Now back to JV and Billups was totally crazy, i wanted Dion, he is more physical and can extend more to disrupt shot. The team had great energy, we gave up some offensive rebounds there at the end and yes Stotts took too long to put Reef in and JT. Turnovers absolutely killed us.

The positive thing that hopefully will come out this game is that the players will now know they can play with the best of the East, there is still more than enough time for improvement, looks like we are doing better on the defensive boards, but TO's are killing us still.

[cyman3]

Stotts sub patterns are crazy!!! i mean, Reef was takin over in the game vs Cavs... and Stotts decides to sit Reef for too long and allow the Cavs to come back.

in his defense, Our BENCH sucks and never steps up... no depth once so ever.

but hey, ATLEAST REEF is more involved now...

[Blunt91]

Mike Glenn stated that the reason Terry Stotts put Jacque instead of Glover because they were thinking Billups was looking to shoot a jumper instead of posting up Vaughn. Billups would have gotten around Glover as well. Glover doesn't move his feet on defense as well as Vaughn.

[Playmaker0017]

Either way it was a pretty weak call.

Their whoel squad got some calls. While on the other end, we weren't.

That wasn't the deciding factor, mind you... it just stinks.

Play.

[Playmaker0017]

Hots,

Being negative again, right.... you can't help it... it is like tourette's syndrome, right?

Look, the coaching kept the personnel out there. Made the wholesale changes. Kept hot players on the bench for 8 minute stretches.

Again, your lack of basketball and general sporting knowledge is as amazing as some of your ignorant statements.

Play.

[MoonKnight]

I don't remember Stinger saying that but if he did then clearly Stotts was wrong. The Pistons were only down by one point and didn't need a three pointer. Billups simply went iso on JV and lowered his shoulder and drove past him. I think Glover may have been able to stay with him speed wise and I am sure Diaw could have. Stotts probably thought playing a rookie at that point was risky but the Hawks have to take some risks in order to win.

[Plainview1981]

Again, your lack of basketball and general sporting knowledge is as amazing as some of your ignorant statements.

"

Here'sa clue...players don't play the whole game. I know

you don't want to understand that. It's not Stotts fault

the team doesn't have enough talent on the bench. You

are a freakin idiot. You can to be an idiot to be a Reef

fan for the first thing. Go show me a team that plays

it's starters the whole 48 minutes. Again, blame the

players for not being good enough.

"Being negative again, right.... you can't help it... it is like tourette's syndrome, right? "

Being negative? Why, because I'm not sitting here blaming

the coaching staff like you and everyone else on this board

do? People on this board have been blaming the coaching

staff for years. It's Lenny's fault because JT couldn't play

PG and so he couldn't keep starting him there...WHAH WHAH! It's Lon's fault because he started JT at SG! It's

Stotts fault because he doesn't play the starters the whole

48 minutes. WHAH WHAH! Is that your idea of being positive? I mean, c'mon now.......

When does it become the players fault they are stupid? Bad

teams find ways to lose games. It's no secret...Look at the

other bad teams around the league.

[Playmaker0017]

Hotlanta,

No one has intimated, suggested, discussed or even hinted at players playing an entire 48 minutes. Where you got this notion is probably from your sub-par reading level (as I have begun to notice that you don't even read entire posts).

Let me explain, in lay-man's terms, what the issue is.

(1) You leave in a hot player until he cools, or give him a couple minute breather. You play a hot player as long as humanly possible. If that means he comes near 48 minutes, then so be it.

(2) You don't make wholesale substitutions, because most benches are not equipped with the personnel to handle the game. Thus, you remove two or three starters at a time. When those starters are rested you sub them in and removed the ones you left in. Not the entire lineup at once. That is COLLEGE/HIGH SCHOOL basketball.

(3) You never, under normal circumstances, keep a player on the bench for longer than 6 minutes. Typically you take them out to coincide with madatory timeouts or quarter intermissions. Stotts will routinely take Reef out for 8 minutes and Terry out halfway through the first and put him in somewhere in the second. It takes a player out of rythm.

(4) You can make the assumption that players, especially stars (whether Hotlanta considers them stars or not is a moot point), can play what they normally play.

3yr Average 03-04

Reef - 40 35

Terry - 38 36

That is an additional 7 minutes you can eek out of your stars.

If you can't understand simple things, then you'll never grasp the indepth things. Why not just quit watching altogether, I am sure no one here would mind.

Play.

[Plainview1981]

(2) You don't make wholesale substitutions, because most benches are not equipped with the personnel to handle the game. Thus, you remove two or three starters at a time. When those starters are rested you sub them in and removed the ones you left in. Not the entire lineup at once. That is COLLEGE/HIGH SCHOOL basketball. "

Not when the drop off from the starters to the bench

is so small.....Only Reef on the team is a legit NBA

starter and that isn't saying much.

"(4) You can make the assumption that players, especially stars (whether Hotlanta considers them stars or not is a moot point), can play what they normally play."

Nobody considers the players here "stars" besides the

3 or 4 Hawk fans out there. They aren't "stars" Stars

actually win games. Not sit in mediocrity for 8 years.

"(1) You leave in a hot player until he cools, or give him a couple minute breather. You play a hot player as long as humanly possible. If that means he comes near 48 minutes, then so be it."

Reef doesn't have that kind of endurance...

Again, look above the messages here:

Offense 90PPG

Defense 96PPG

Go show me the teams that win doing that?

Stotts does the best possible with this untalented squad.

[Playmaker0017]

YOU may not consider the players stars, but they are. Sorry to tell you, but Reef is still considered a top-tier player in the league. People may have doubts on his ability to lead a team, quite readily deserved I might add, but no one questions his skill.

I don't even know how to respond because you live in a fantasy world. You believe Reef scores because teams don't consider him a threat. You believe he gets lucky. You think guys can shut him down at will. You live in a fantasy world.

You also feel JT is a complete waste. While he is definitely a tough player to use, he is HARDLY a waste. He just isn't a PG.

Play.

[Plainview1981]

YOU may not consider the players stars, but they are. Sorry to tell you, but Reef is still considered a top-tier player in the league."

By who, you? lol

Reef is considered what he is....A second string PF...Which

puts him in the Walker/Jamison slots. Too bad you are too

blind to notice.....

"You believe Reef scores because teams don't consider him a threat. "

I said teams don't really worry about concentrating on

him always until late in the game. Players have ALready

said it. Coaches have also said Reef isn't that great. Just

ask Pat Riley....Ah what would he know...right?

"You also feel JT is a complete waste. While he is definitely a tough player to use, he is HARDLY a waste. He just isn't a PG. "

He isn't a starter on a winning team either.

You don't know how to respond because your an idiot that

rides the jock of the losingest player in the NBA...But right,

that McGrady isn't all that great. Can't be as good as Reef!

lol

[Playmaker0017]

Hot,

Go watch a sport you understand and watch a team you like. You really don't know when to shut the [censored] up.

No one, and I mean no one, enjoys you coming here and incessantly whining and "I-told-you-sos". Just shut up. No one wants to hear it. If you have something constructive to add, then do so.

As it stands, we are NOT trading everyone. As it stands, we KNOW what our roster looks like. Work within the confines of that.

Is Reef = Duncan... no. But, we all feel he can be a great player in the right situation.

Is JT a starter... no, not on the Lakers. But, here in Atlanta he is. We also feel he can contribute his scoring knack nightly.

We don't need you to shoot off every three seconds about how we stink and we don't have a team. Teams with less talent are winning. Teams with more are losing.

Again, if you have something to say that adds to the discussion then add it. Otherwise shut your beak.

Now, in response to your post, I never said that McGrady isn't a better player than Shareef. I just said that I don't think McGrady is a saviour. You took it to the Shareef vs. McGrady arena. Not me.

You have never said teams don't concentrate on him until late, you say that Reef scores because no one takes him seriously. Then Reef has a bad game and out pops HotIdiot and what does HotIdiot say? "Reef can't even score on xxx, he is worthless. He can't score on even the lowly xxx."

Then you constantly pull out what two people said about Shareef, rather than posting the thousands of POSITIVE things that other players and coaches have said in the span of Reef's career. You focus on two compared to the many.

So, please, just shut up. If you need to, ask Chillz for a private board where you can go in there and just berate all the players to no end. But stop it here.

If you can be constructive, provide examples of what a player could work on, what could we do better... then go ahead... but this constant innane posting has already past its expiration date... the [censored] is old man.

Play.

[Playmaker0017]

Basically, what I am saying is that we have a hard enough time rooting for this team and being a Hawks-fan in general, and we don't need you to come in here and make it tougher.

Quite often you revert into a good poster, why don't you do this more often, rather then ruining it for true fans.

And before you EVEN BEGIN to spout off about being true fan means I can't criticize, no one said that. Just make it constructive. We aren't going to change the world, nor the Hawks for that matter, in here.... this is a place for people that like the team and want to do better. Not a place to be reminded how bad we have it.

Play.

[Plainview1981]

No one, and I mean no one, enjoys you coming here and incessantly whining and "I-told-you-sos". Just shut up. No one wants to hear it. If you have something constructive to add, then do so. "

They'd enjoyed being fed fable comments like"The Hawks

are a better team with Big Hog/Big Load" or Reef will

average 25PPG with Dog to open things up for him"

"Is Reef = Duncan... no. But, we all feel he can be a great player in the right situation"

YOU feel he can be a great player in the right situation...

But the guy is below average in passing,rebounding, leader

ship, ball handling ability...That's alot of things to lack for

a supposed great player.

" rather than posting the thousands of POSITIVE things that other players and coaches have said in the span of Reef's career. You focus on two compared to the many. "

That's because coaches don't like to say bad things about

other players all that much.

"If you can be constructive, provide examples of what a player could work on, what could we do better... then go ahead..."

This team can't win, so what does it matter? When the

team has young talent like Denver then we call talk about

what players can't improve on. Right now, the team is

stuck with fully developed players on a team headed NOWHERE.

"We don't need you to shoot off every three seconds about how we stink and we don't have a team. Teams with less talent are winning. Teams with more are losing."

Honestly, I don't think there is a team less talented...

Even the Jazz...Right now Arryo is providing 16PPG 7APG

and is a pure PG. I'll take him over JT..Thank you very

much. Matt Harpring is better than Jackson, Stevenson

is better than Dion, and it's questionable if Theo is better

than Greg Ostertag....GO is a real center than Theo is

not...Greg rebounds....Theo does not....

But all I'm saying is quit blaming the coaching staff for

a team that simply has not enough talent to win. Nobody,

should get mad...It just means that JT/Theo/Reef should

be gone and the team should be built over. And unless

the Hawks land a top notch FA which isn't likely to happen

due to restricted Free Agency then this team will not win

games.

Stotts isn't perfect, but he's done a respectable job with

very little.

[Plainview1981]

And before you EVEN BEGIN to spout off about being true fan means I can't criticize, no one said that. Just make it constructive. We aren't going to change the world, nor the Hawks for that matter, in here.... this is a place for people that like the team and want to do better. Not a place to be reminded how bad we have it. "

Ok. you want me to lie basically. I know where you are

coming from in this post and nobody here can change

anything...But I'm just like a coach that hates to lose...

I'm a Bill Parcells as a fan.......I'm a Bobby Knight as

a fan...[censored], I'm a Tony Stewart as a fan...It's just the

way I view things.

[thecampster]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this out loud.

Get off Hotlanta's back!!!!!!!!!

Personally, I don't share all his opinions on the Hawks but for Pete's sake, take a look and see where he's coming from and not the method he's using.

Stephan Jackson was a bench player for the Spurs, we're giving him 13 shots a game. That's 3 more a game than the spurs gave him as a #1 option off the bench where he should get more looks than as 4th option on offense as a starter.

Dion Glover who by the way is the one guy on this team I think is giving it his all, all season (even Reef was loafing the first 5 games). Was available for 1-3 million a season to the right bidder all summer. No one bought. We're allowing him 13.3 shots a game. Now although he is shooting a lower percentage than Jackson there is a reason. He's getting to the line 2.2 times more than Jackson a game meaning he's getting fouled and missing the shot at least once more a game than Jackson and by driving the ball to the hoop he's at least making the defense move. Jackson is a stagnant shooter on offense and poorer handler of the ball. Proof is the shorter Glover averages to date show that in 2.5 less minutes a game, Dion gets 1 more rebound and gives up .7 less turnovers per game.

Add these 2 players up. In about 33 minutes of the game, they shoot 26.4 times, grab 9.2 boards, give 5.1 assists and turn it over 4.7 times. So these two players who were bench players last year and that no one wanted over the summer get 45.5 quality touches in 33 minutes.

Hotlanta's argument is that we are under talented. We have 2 players no one wanted getting a quality touch (shot, board, assist, turnover) once every 40 seconds for 33 minutes of a 48 minute game.

This is why we are under talented. JT might be a good point guard on a team with better players in the starting lineup, but facts is facts. Reef is the only Nba starter of the group for JT to look to offensively. 2 others are marginal starters on any playoff team, but not both on a playoff team, Ratliff is small and defensive minded so by default JT has to be the second option.

Second unit. 2 rookies, one with no USA college experience so he doesn't know the players he's playing with or against. 1 pure non scoring point guard, one second year marginal point guard, 2 gimps (crawford, henderson), a cast off from New York (Nailon), a cast off from Philly with a pin in his foot(though Nazr is arguably the best of the group).

So when Hotlanta is "griping" about the talent level and to get off Stotts' back about coaching I have to agree with him.

In my humble opinion, JT's head is up his keester about what his job is supposed to be right now. He should stop shooting in practice and make running the half court offense his number one goal. He should as a second goal start practicing penetrating and hitting a cutter and make the other players, Jackson and Ratliff specifically get involved in being the cutters.

Jackson needs to go back to hustling for loose balls and mixing it up inside and outside 15 feet instead of hanging out looking for a pass and jacking it up.

Reef needs to start demanding the ball and start dishing out punishment to anyone hacking him. If he continues to get hacked, then he needs to start being a man and call for the ball on the next possession and step on the guys chest on the way to the basket.

Ratliff needs to quit whining about tic tac fouls and put some other teams on his can so the refs will have a real foul to blow about. You play a tic tac style and they'll whistle you for tic tac fouls. You play like a beast and they'll only whistle the contact that draws blood. Ask John Salley.

Glover. He needs to keep putting forth the effort and start passing after driving to force Ratliff to be a force on offense and to make the other teams shotblockers respect those other players.

and Alan Henderson needs to take some freaking Midol and get his pansy [censored] back on the floor. I grew up in Indiana and recently just moved back and our whole freaking state is ashamed to say we put out such a wuss.

[Plainview1981]

Agreed. I just would like to see Billy do the right thing

and start doing what Kiki done. It only teams a year or

so and you got a young team ready to go. It will not

seem as hard to be a Hawk fan when you have got a

team that you can build around.

Say we can trade Reef/JT or just one of them in a package

and get a lotto pick....

We could have possibly Oakfour/Boris/Dwight Howard/Nazr/

and hopefully a first round steal to start rebuilding around.

We'd already have a team on the right path...Maybe try

and get kwame at a SMALL price...