Would Cavs want Horford or more?

[JonKoncak]

I'd trade Horford for an lottery pick. He is good but he seems to have an injury bug.

[NJHAWK]

I think Smart will end up being a 2 anyway in the league. He reminds me of Dion Waiters/Wade. I'd have no issue putting him in the backcourt with Teague. BTW, Parker would be a perfect fit here character wise and on the court. A lot was made of his weight 'issue', but people forget he was recovering from a foot injury sustained in high school and he still was great at Duke. He has since gotten back into shape and looks every bit the part of an elite SF. The guy is the real deal and he would step in and be the most skilled player on the Hawks from day one. But there is no way the Cavs or anybody in the top 3 trade their picks.

Weight issue and foot injury, kinda sounds just as bad as back injury or two torn pectorals.

[NJHAWK]

Why I would say trade down if we got #1 for Al is because I think Randle could turn out to be the most productive player from this draft and we could get a young star or future lotto pick for doing it. Randle would be at the very least my #2 overall pick if I was a gm but he should be there at 4 or 5 so trade down get him and get more assets along with him. All pipe dreams but this whole thread is a pipe dream. Embiid is going to go #1, let somebody else worry about his back and the hakeem hype. That said heres to a 100% healthy Al " Tim Duncun jr. Horford in Buds.offense next year.

[ViperXX79]

Why I would say trade down if we got #1 for Al is because I think Randle could turn out to be the most productive player from this draft and we could get a young star or future lotto pick for doing it. Randle would be at the very least my #2 overall pick if I was a gm but he should be there at 4 or 5 so trade down get him and get more assets along with him. All pipe dreams but this whole thread is a pipe dream. Embiid is going to go #1, let somebody else worry about his back and the hakeem hype. That said heres to a 100% healthy Al " Tim Duncun jr. Horford in Buds.offense next year.

Al isn't even close to Duncan. Tim can do it all and Al has a good midrange game.

[nathan2331]

Al isn't even close to Duncan. Tim can do it all and Al has a good midrange game.

I think it's fair to say that while Duncan is still better, Horford is close to Duncan today.

[Admin]

I think it's fair to say that while Duncan is still better, Horford is close to Duncan today.

No. Duncan is superior on both ends. Al is better in transition and better from mid-range.

[nathan2331]

No. Duncan is superior on both ends. Al is better in transition and better from mid-range.

Why is it so hard to believe Al is comparable to Duncan? Yes I accept he's not the two-way force Duncan is, but to say that Duncan is untouchable is wrong. The stats I've seen comparing the two show me that Horford is close.

[Admin]

Why is it so hard to believe Al is comparable to Duncan? Yes I accept he's not the two-way force Duncan is, but to say that Duncan is untouchable is wrong. The stats I've seen comparing the two show me that Horford is close.

Because even now Duncan is still a dominating 2 way player who can literally do everything. Al is a very good player but he's not Duncan. Nobody else is Duncan.

[Admin]

Look at the numbers comparing Horford in 2012-2013 vs Duncan in 2013-2014, with 11 years between them in age. Per 36 minutes Duncan is still better than a much younger Al. He's not dominating him statisically but we all know that even know he's still the guy any sane person would pick 100 times out of 100 between the two of them if you had to choose a PF/C to go win a game with.

http://bkref.com/tiny/iTgn7

[nathan2331]

Look at the numbers comparing Horford in 2012-2013 vs Duncan in 2013-2014, with 11 years between them in age. Per 36 minutes Duncan is still better than a much younger Al. He's not dominating him statisically but we all know that even know he's still the guy any sane person would pick 100 times out of 100 between the two of them if you had to choose a PF/C to go win a game with.

http://bkref.com/tiny/iTgn7

Looking at the link you posted, Al is the superior offensive player while falling behind in defense and rebounding. I'm not sure what metric could be used to prove which player is "better", but looking at the advanced stats I'd say Duncan is the better player. I do however think they are close which was my point.

[NBASupes]

Al most defineitly has been more productive than Duncan over the last three years via overall numbers since Duncan usually doesn't play a great deal of minutes at this stage but in the playoffs when Duncan gets minutes, his production clearly elclipes Horf. With that said, Horf is usually out of position, doesn't really have the right personnel around him, and was recently playing next to Smoove in the playoffs. Not quite as fair as playing next to Tiago S. With that said, Duncan is a top 3-5 all timer in my book so it's no comparison. He is clearly better than Al.

[NJHAWK]

Because even now Duncan is still a dominating 2 way player who can literally do everything. Al is a very good player but he's not Duncan. Nobody else is Duncan.

Thats why I said jr. lol

[Guest]

Why is it so hard to believe Al is comparable to Duncan? Yes I accept he's not the two-way force Duncan is, but to say that Duncan is untouchable is wrong. The stats I've seen comparing the two show me that Horford is close.

Because he isn't - it's quite simple.

[AHF]

Al most defineitly has been more productive than Duncan over the last three years via overall numbers since Duncan usually doesn't play a great deal of minutes at this stagel.

Did I just read that Horford has played more minutes than Duncan over the last three years?!? I bet Duncan has played multiple thousands of minutes more, thus waaaay more total production.

More importantly, why do they keep getting compared? They are NOT alike. At least Teague and Parker have some real similarities in their game but Horford and Duncan are not alike in their style of play on either end of the floor. It is just a useless comparison for that reason unless you are talking about trading them. You can"t build around Horford like you can Duncan.

[nathan2331]

OK I guess I'll have to take the loss on this one. I don't see Duncan this year was that much better than Horford, but every else seems to disagree.

[Jody23]

As nice a player as Horf is, he can't do what Duncan did in that overtime Saturday night. Tim and Manu put the team on their backs. They were given the ball and relied on to make plays in isolation situations. Horf is not that kind of player. None of the current Hawks are.

[Guest]

OK I guess I'll have to take the loss on this one. I don't see Duncan this year was that much better than Horford, but every else seems to disagree.

Yeah Dude - take the loss and move on. Lol.

You are fighting a losing battle on this one.

Edited June 3, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[AHF]

As nice a player as Horf is, he can't do what Duncan did in that overtime Saturday night. Tim and Manu put the team on their backs. They were given the ball and relied on to make plays in isolation situations. Horf is not that kind of player. None of the current Hawks are.

That is true but to me it goes more fundamental more than that:

* Duncan is a rim protector on defense; Horford is not;

* Duncan has the size of a center and plays PF; Horford has the size of a PF and plays C;

* Horford has more lateral quickness and can switch onto smaller players effectively;

* Duncan is a much better rebounder (Horford hasn't averaged 10 rebounds per 36 in 4 years, Duncan averaged 12 per 36 last season);

* More of the offense is run through Duncan's hands and he both creates more for teammates and turns the ball over more as a result;

* Duncan can play in the post which draws defensive bodies into the paint and impacts floor spacing like Korver.

They just are not good players to compare. When you build around them, you are building around two different skill sets so why look to what the Spurs do with Duncan as any indication as to what the Hawks should do with Horford?

The biggest similarities are that both are team oriented, competitive, low drama big men who are not that far apart in their ability to make an All-Star or All-NBA team when healthy. That isn't enough to make them useful for comparison purposes.

[Admin]

Looking at the link you posted, Al is the superior offensive player while falling behind in defense and rebounding. I'm not sure what metric could be used to prove which player is "better", but looking at the advanced stats I'd say Duncan is the better player. I do however think they are close which was my point.

They might be close in the overall stats for a season. But if you asked 100 people which guy they'd take to win a single game or series, 100 out of 100 would say Duncan. That's not close in my opinion. That's no knock against Al as he's a very good player but Duncan is the best PF of all time and when he wants to, he can still put up dominant stats and he doesn't have to rely on anyone else to get him his points like Al frequently does.

[NBASupes]

Did I just read that Horford has played more minutes than Duncan over the last three years?!? I bet Duncan has played multiple thousands of minutes more, thus waaaay more total production.

More importantly, why do they keep getting compared? They are NOT alike. At least Teague and Parker have some real similarities in their game but Horford and Duncan are not alike in their style of play on either end of the floor. It is just a useless comparison for that reason unless you are talking about trading them. You can"t build around Horford like you can Duncan.

For the minutes they played clearly. Horf when he has played has played a lot of mins in that short period. Duncan in the regular season has his mins capped till the playoffs. Come on, seriously, context.

I am not comparing them rarely ever. That was your boys who really compared them. For me, Duncan is in a league of his own for most all NBA players. Horf is in the same line with Karl except out of position and without Stockton.

As for Parker-Teague comparison. That crap needs to stop. Parker actually has PG skills. Jeff gets assists like John Wall but without the court vision of Wall.

Jeff is still a lot like Bobby Jackson to me. Same style of players. Teague might be better.

Edited June 3, 2014 by nbasupes40retired