Jason Terry tells the truth....

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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Jason Terry blames his reduced assist numbers (7.4 from last year to 4.7 this year) on the absence of Big Dogg. "I'm missing what? Two or three assists a game," Terry has said. "[Robinson] was such a good catch-and-shoot guy. He was dangerous. We'd run pick and roll and just kill guys. We miss that."

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It's funny. Now we are seeing the Jekyll Hyde of this team. The truth of the matter is that:

1. JT was not that good of a PG and still is not.

2. Big Dog was not the root of all of our problems.

3. SJax is Nobody's savior and people still defend him.

Here's the skinny...

Big Dog/Reef could have been a very good combo at the forwards if we had:

1. Better coaching.

2. A PG who could run the offense.

What JT has basically said is that he ran around, through passes to Big Dog and viola... assist.

However, because we had bad coaching and other problems, we blamed everything on Big Dog because he was actually trying to win.

SJax is in the same position. He's a poor man's Big Dog. Meaning that he puts up bad shots but he doesn't rebound or score as well.

It's going to lead to a very ugly end.

I just hope that in the end we keep Reef over JT.

With Reef, we have something.

With JT, we got a lot of talk... We have a lot of collar popping. We have a lot of emotion, but we don't have any true leadership or consistency.

It's funny.

Many people talked about Utah as if they would be the bottom of the league. However, they have showed us that a good coach always beats a flashy player.

Don't get me wrong, this Hawk team is NOT bad... However, we have a systemic flaw...

We need a coach who knows how to use all these people.

Bring on Fratello.

[Plainview1981]

Reef/Dog where the same as Baker/Dog. Nice numbers...

but nice numbers don't win games alone. JT is such a

flawed player. I think the team should consider leaving

him unprotected...Guys like him and Jalen have good

numbers, but they dont make teams better. They take

too many bad shots....

[swolehawk2]

There you go thinking only offense again. Nobody said that Dog couldn't shoot the problem is that is all he can do. He is horrible on defense, combine that with no ball handling skills and just plain laziness, and oh yeah..selfishness ...and bad ankles = a trade for cap space.

Big Dog was a big problem because he came in and tried to carry the Hawks...we put the ball in his hands way too often...I would trade Big Dog for Brandon over and over.

S JAX is what he is...he didn't come in with all the hype Big Dog did and he is much cheaper..and he hustles ...the only thing Dog is really better at is mid range shooting.

If Big Dog was tryin to win...why didn't he play defense...or even get back in transition or dive for loose balls or take charges....if you call jacking up jumpers trying to win then you need to watch the game a little more carefully.

What JT is missing is that after they "would kill guys" those same guys would come down and kill them...get a TO and come down and kill them again. ....lol

We need a demanding coach. I think Stotts will be a good coach but this is just bad timing...we needed a vet coach that was proven after Lon...we didn't get one and now we must pay for it.

[Diesel]

Maybe somebody ought to think Offensively. The fact of the matter is that Dog would have been a better asset had we had better coaching and better PG play.

JT does absolutely nothing to help make those others playing with him better. He just runs around and score...

I would be a great experiment if we could get Fratello here to coach and trade JT for Big Dog.

I promise you that Vaughn/Jax/Big Dog/SAR/Theo with Fratello as coach would win and probably make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

However, when you have Lon "Don't call me coach" Kruger telling the team to go out there and play well... And you have 5 games trying to do their own thing, there's no team.

[Traceman]

On Diesel's end, he implies that JT had nothing to do with fact that the Big Dog/JT pick and roll was a pretty effective play. D, it takes TWO players to effectively run the pick and roll. JT was obviously doing his part if the play was working. JT ran that play effectively with Kukoc as well. He even ran it well with Lo. JT runs the pick and roll pretty well (with the right partner) because he's such a threat to score if the defense leaves him and he can also get the ball to the player who is rolling. Contrast that with the pick and roll plays that JT tries to run with Reef. JT and Reef do not execute that play particularly well and JT is certainly not solely to blame for that. My point is that while JT might have his faults, he is still a good player and he didn't just throw the ball to Dog for "easy assists." He did a good job of executing the play on his end.

On the other end of the spectrum, Swolehawk says that all Jax is better than Dog at is the midrange J. That CLEARLY is not the case. Dog is a better shooter/scorer PERIOD. FAR better. He's also a better rebounder. Don't get me wrong, I like Jax. For the price we got him for, he's a down right steal. He's a better defender than Dog (though he's not a great defender). I like the energy he brings and I like the fact that he plays with passion. But just as you'd expect for a guy that makes the salary he does, he's not as good as Dog. Not even close.

The bottom line is that both of you guys are looking for a simple solution to a complex problem. Dog was not solely to blame for our poor play last season and JT is not solely to blame for our poor play this season. This TEAM has a lot of flaws and until they are corrected, we will continue to lose one, win one, lose two, win one, etc.

We STILL are not big enough or tough enough on the interior and we still turn the ball over at an alarming rate. On nights where we hold our own on the boards and turn it over less than usual, we'll get more than our share of wins. On nights when we play like we have played for basically the last 4+ seasons, we will lose.

The sad part is that the EC is so pathetic that we could vy for a playoff spot if we would simply play tough EVERY night. No EC team, not even the Pacers, are without significant flaws. The teams that play the toughest/hardest night in and night out will likely make the playoffs in the EC.

[swolehawk2]

Big Dog is not a scorer...scorers get to the basket ...scorers breakdown defenses...Dog is a GREAT mid range jump shooter...thats all he can do well.

Rebounding is easy when you are not guarding your man...you are in perfect position...Big Dog is horrible..

When Dog first got here I thought he was a scorer and rebounder and all that too....then I started to watch some games and repeatedly see Dog beaten by his man in half court and transition ...and to call a man who can't dribble a scorer is just funny to me...Shaq...Tim Duncan [censored] I think Nazr can dribble better than Dog..that is not an exaggeration it is the truth.

Maybe it is the bad ankles but....S Jax is way more of a complete player than Dog...I don't know what that exactly means...but oh well.

People see the 20 points and say Dog is clearly a great scorer and all this...then they look at JT and his 20 points a game and want to trade him....Dog better thank God for Sam Cassell and Ray because he has made his living off wide open jump shots...Dog is no more a scorer than Steve Kerr... Jim Paxson... Tim Legler......the ONLY differences..he is 6'8 so he can shoot over most people and selfish.

[Traceman]

a great scorer. So few players do that for an entire career. It doesn't matter if you get your points by FTs, dunks, layups, sky hooks, mid range J's or 3 pointers. It doesn't matter of you score the same way every time. What matters is that you can score CONSISTENTLY. And Dog can definitely do that. People harp about his poor shooting percentage last year 43% but he shot 3 percentage points higher last year in his WORST season than Jax is shooting right now!

Dog's ability to shoot the J DID break down defenses and it DOES make it more difficult for teams to focus on his teammates who can score.

Rebounding is NOT easy under ANY circumstances. Dog did an excellent job on the boards. People act like he just let his man run free and take open shots while he stood under the basket waiting for the rebound. That's ridiculous! He wasn't rebounding shots missed by HIS man, he was rebounding shots taken by other players too!

As for Jax, what is "complete" about his game? He's more like a jack of all trades, master of none. What does he do really well? Name one thing that really stands out about his game other than his emotions. He's not a great shooter or scorer, his offense is streaky. He's not a great rebounder, passer, ballhandler or defender. He's a turnover machine just like Dog. I like him and he has a chance to get better but he is NOT a complete player by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Dog making his living off Ray Allen and Sam Cassell, he was dropping 20 ppg in Milwaukee before either of them got there and he dropped 20 last year when neither was on the team. Dog can score. Period. Legler? Kerr? Paxson? What a joke.

[Plainview1981]

Scorers:Glen Robinson/Glen Rice/Nique/Allen Iverson

Shooters:John Stockton/Brent Barry/Jeff Hornecek/Wesley

Person/Micheal Redd

[Packfill]

Well said, very well said.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

In reply to:

---

Scorers:Glen Robinson/Glen Rice/Nique/Allen Iverson

Shooters:John Stockton/Brent Barry/Jeff Hornecek/Wesley

Person/

Micheal Redd

---

I think you can move Michael Redd to the scorers list. The only reason why he hasn't averaged 20 pts in the past, is because he was playing behind Ray Allen, and having to share the rock with the likes of Allen, Payton, Cassell, and Robinson.

TROUBLEMAN

[Diesel]

You say that SJax is a more complete player than Big Dog??? That's perception....

Come on man....

The reality is that Dog put in 21 ppg to SJax 14.

The realityis that Dog pulled down 7 rpg to SJax 4.1.

The reality is that Dog shot 43.0% from the field to SJax 40%.

The reality is that Dog shot 34% from three to Sjax's 30%.

The reality is that Dog had 1.3 spg to SJax 1.4.

The reality is that Dog had 0.4 bpg to SJax 0.2 bpg.

Where is the more complete player. I think that's a matter of perception but not reality. In reality, SJax does nothing better but maybe steals... and tha's only slightly.

[swolehawk2]

You come up here with a bunch of BS stats and talk about reality...watch a [censored] game.

You mean to tell me that a great shooter and scorer like Big Dog only shot 43% to Jax 40%....lol....add that Jax is way better defensively and more athletic....and my point is proven...if Dog's claim to fame is that he is a great shooter however he not much better than Jax...then what else does Dog offer....what makes him so great.

If I was 6'8 and shot 20 times every game I would probably avg. 20 a game

The facts are if you look at some tape from last year and watch Dog play.....with and without the ball and you think Dog is a better player than Jax right now...then so be it. There is a reason that Dog has been traded twice in a blink of an eye....and it is not for cap space.....[censored] I'm sure Philly would have taken Reef.

[swolehawk2]

We are talking about the here and now...not what Dog did 5 years ago.....Dog is a jump shooter...Ray allen is a scorer.

If Jax is so bad ....a master of none....yet Dog only shot 43% and he is supposed to be a great scorer...then what does that make Jax....he is better defensively and he shoots 40%

Like I told Diesel if you can look at game tape from last year and say that Big Dog is better all around basketball player..then so be it. I will take Jax taking charges...ripping lose balls away from PFs and diving on the floor ...playing solid D moving with out the ball for easy lay ups and dunks. Than a player who doesn't hustle or play D ...maybe his ankles are bad...but Dog can't move man....he can't play D and his offensive moves consist of three pump fakes and a jump shot.

The fact is when Dog's shot was off last year in games...he couldn't offer ANYTHING else....SJax can.

[swolehawk2]

Did you watch Nique play? If you did you wouldn't say Dog is a scorer...MJ was a scorer....Kobe is a scorer... Glen Rice was a scorer in his early days but he became just a shooter.

Nique is a scorer Iverson is a scorer....they can create shots in any situation..if you threw Dog the ball with 5 seconds on the wing at 18 feet with a cat in his mug....you would probably get a turnover....with Nique MJ Kobe AI ....you would probably get a layup and 1.

.Dog is not a scorer....answer this question if Steve Kerr played 40 minutes a night on a team with at least two other players who could score and he shot 18-20 jumpers a night...how many points would you think Kerr would avg.

I'd say around 20.

The way to judge a scorer...if you told him he couldn't shoot a jump shot could he score consistently one on one?

[Plainview1981]

Guys that average 20PPG are scorers.

[Weez]

so you would consider Reef a scorer? just curious...

[Plainview1981]

Of course. Why wouldn't he be considered a scorer over

a shooter?

[Diesel]

Now, the stats are BS...

What do you think swole? DO you think the Statman really liked Dog and really didn't like Jax? How else do you quantify what a player brings to the table?? By the way he looks on the court?

I would think it would be by his effect on the team.

All summer long, I heard you talking about how Big Dog Negatively effected the team.

Well, When asked Point blank about his Decline, JT said... We really miss having Dog complete the pick and Roll... That doesn't sound negative to me.

There's a mountain of Evidence that suggests that Big Dog was not as bad as you make him out to be.

Reef was upset when Big Dog was traded because Reef knew that it would be back on him and that the franchise is NOT SERIOUS about winning.

You want to talk about worthless talk and Jibber jabber.

Tell me swole, where is the gain in trading Big Dog for Capspace.

Last year at this point we were 8-10. 20 games in we were 10-10... And we had played the likes of the Lakers(W), Kings, and T-wolves and WE had less talent...

Now, we are submediocre. We can't sustain 2 victories in a row.

You talk about Dog getting easy rebounds. IF they were so easy, why can't Jax get them?

BTW, Jax is 6'8. He shoots the ball 18 times per game. Why can't he get over the 14 point barrier.

Swole if it's so easy to be a scorer... Why can't Jax do it? IF it's so easy to pull down 7 a game, why can't Jax do it?

Maybe because Jax is a career 9.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg player who is not in Big Dog's league... Yet you believe he's more complete...

Prove it.

[drzachary]

Hm, there should be Hawksquawk awards, given out for various categories, to both threads and posters. Let's call them the Squawkies.

Here's my first few categories and nominations:

Most Irrelevant Thread: Big Dog *.*

Most Irrelevant Thread: Fantasy Trades that will Never Happen

Most Beaten, Deadest Horse Thread: Big Dog *.*

Most Beaten, Deadest Horse Thread: JT isn't a Good PG

Most Irksome Thread: "Ha ha I Told You So!"

Most Irksome Thread: Fantasy Trades that will Never Happen, Posted on the Homecourt Board

Master of the Obvious Thread: Stotts isn't a Mastermind Coach

Master of the Obvious Thread: JT isn't a Good PG

Best Comedic Thread: Flamewars resulting in HOME ADDRESSES being posted and physical threats made

Best Comedic Thread: "I'm Leaving Because You Posted a Picture of My Dad!"

Feel free to add your own nominations!

[emeans]

I have to agree with Diesel on this one. I think people put too much stock in Glenn not being a good player. The problem has always been much much bigger than Glenn. If you read his article he really wanted to try another year with this team. He had a lot of pressure on him to come in and produce immediately, which was really not fair.

Like Diesel I also think one of the main problems is coaching. I am not sold on Stotts and right now I don't think I ever will.

Fratello would do wonders for this team and would have done wonders for this team with Glenn Robinson. However wishful thinking means nothing these days.

All of this is spilled milk under the bridge so we should all move on.