Missed opportunities... How to aquire talent.

[JETSET]

Some of that you speak of is just playing time.  Muscala went overseas and played on a championship team.   Carroll and Scott got a boost in playing time.   We all expect Bazemore to improve because he will likely be our starter.

I get it.  So increased playing time means a player automatically improves?  Oh wait, no it really doesn't.  Plenty of players have failed miserably with increased playing time while every single one of ours improved with their increase in PT last season. 

[Diesel]

I get it.  So increased playing time means a player automatically improves?  Oh wait, no it really doesn't.  Plenty of players have failed miserably with increased playing time while every single one of ours improved with their increase in PT last season. 

 

Name me some young players who have "Failed Miserably" with increased playing time?  Even Sorry Marvin improved a little when he played all the time.

[JETSET]

Name me some young players who have "Failed Miserably" with increased playing time?  Even Sorry Marvin improved a little when he played all the time.

Of course Marvin didn't fail miserably.  He wouldn't have just landed a 2 yr 14 mil contract if he did. 

 

Just look at players who have been given an opportunity to play 20ish minutes per game and were out of the league in 1-3 years.  I'm not talking Hawks specific here.

 

Increased playing time doesn't guarantee that a player is going to improve.  I agree that increased PT helps a player to a point since they have more rhythm, but it doesn't guarantee a player to perform better.  We saw Bazemore's 3 pt shooting increase by a pretty solid margin when he got more PT with the Lakers.  I think we will see the potential of his whole game increase after working with our staff for a full year combined with more steady PT.

[NJHAWK]

OK.. this Brings about a NEW Topic....

 

 

IN THE LAST 9 Years, what Former Hawk would have flourished under Coach Bud and His System?

Mike Bibby and perhaps the JJ offense. I even have to wonder if he could have made a player out of Acie Law?

[JETSET]

OK.. this Brings about a NEW Topic....

 

 

IN THE LAST 9 Years, what Former Hawk would have flourished under Coach Bud and His System?

I would say most of them as long as Bud and the current staff had a chance to begin grooming them early in their careers.  It would be interesting to see how Josh's career path would have went if our current staff was there from day one. 

[red2play]

26 of the 30 teams have the same issue, including San Antonio.  How to attract players?  Good Drafting and good players from FA.  Who have the Spurs added in recent years.  Patrick Mills?  Boris Diaw and they traded for Kawhi Lenard.  If Kevin Durant leaves OKC, watch them fall like a rock.  There's only a few teams that get the big name FA's and unfortunately, we aren't one of them.

[Guest]

Some of that you speak of is just playing time.  Muscala went overseas and played on a championship team.   Carroll and Scott got a boost in playing time.   We all expect Bazemore to improve because he will likely be our starter.

You also saw an increase in their skill level and conditioning - Mike Scott wasn't running the floor before, his defense is still bad but I saw a slight improvement in his team defense and on court awareness.  I remember DMC said he had no idea about footwork and thanked Coach Snyder.

 

Here is the Daily Vitamin info:

 

Daily vitamins have nothing to do with supplements. They are, in fact, a major part of the Hawks’ player development system. It is the term used for the daily one-on-one time that assistant coaches work with an individual player. Under the system, different assistants are assigned a group of players.The time spent together could be video work or on-court work or both. The sessions generally last between 20 and 30 minutes, either before or after practice.

“We work specifically with that individual on his game,” assistant Darvin Ham said.

The procedure is part of first-year coach Mike Budenholzer’s system. It’s not the norm, according to Ham.

“I’ve been around teams where quite honestly, you get your work in if you have the time before or after practice,” Ham said. “It’s usually random or fragmented. Then you do have some players that carve out the time to make sure they get individual work every day. For a coach to establish that has one of the main routines that we do daily, it’s the first time I’ve seen it. I love it. I wish I had it when I was a player.”

Ham, who works with the big men, tailors the sessions to each player. He said the session with Millsap is different than those of Elton Brand, Mike Scott and Gustavo Ayón. Ham said the session could be used to work on fundamentals. He likes to begin with footwork and work his way up.

Another key to the sessions are to work on where the individual player fits within the team’s overall system. In this way, roles are more clearly defined and concepts more easily recognized.

Kenny Atkinson, Taylor Jenkins, Quin Snyder and Jim Thomas also have similar assignments. DeMarre Carroll has mentioned more than once his work with Snyder he called daily vitamins.

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-hawks/2014/feb/14/just-what-are-hawks-daily-vitamins/

Edited July 23, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Diesel]

26 of the 30 teams have the same issue, including San Antonio.  How to attract players?  Good Drafting and good players from FA.  Who have the Spurs added in recent years.  Patrick Mills?  Boris Diaw and they traded for Kawhi Lenard.  If Kevin Durant leaves OKC, watch them fall like a rock.  There's only a few teams that get the big name FA's and unfortunately, we aren't one of them.

 

 I don't think that San Antonio looks to add big names.  So I don't think it's a problem. I think SA is very deliberate in how they approach the offseason.  This offseason, the main thing was to keep everybody together and they accomplished that.   When Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili went on the FA market, there was never a doubt about resigning them.

 

As far as 4 teams... let see:

 

Dallas never has trouble.

NJ hasn't had trouble.

Chicago never has trouble.

Cleveland didn't have trouble.

Miami didn't have trouble.

Houston is on the fence... they were just out GM'd.

 

But here's the thing...  Rich Cho goes to Charlotte.  Charlotte gets big Al and now Stephenson... not to mention Heyward.

Portland always seems to get who they want.

Washington is also very successful as of late.

 

Lowry chose Toronto.

Phoenix can get players too.

 

I think that when you look it over closely, there are teams who can get FAs when they choose to.  However, we can have a pocket full of money and we have problems.

[Guest]

Marvin did not accomplish anything. There is the possibility that Paul could have drawn a top notch FA here.

 

It's the biggest mistake of the last 10 years without a doubt.

 

Disagree (respectfully).  NO signed no one of any consequence while he was there.

[Guest]

1. Eric Bledsoe

2. Greg Monroe

These are good young building blocks that would remain trade assets in the future. The Hawks should be doing everything in their power to acquire them even if it means giving up good players and the team not being as competitive in the next season.

 

We don't have the assets for that (I don't think so anyway).  I think Bledsoe would welcome a trade here as he has always spent the offseason in AL rather than LA or PHX (if you believe NBA radio).  I'm not really a fan though, especially considering his "agent" is seeking the max.

[JETSET]

 I don't think that San Antonio looks to add big names.  So I don't think it's a problem. I think SA is very deliberate in how they approach the offseason.  This offseason, the main thing was to keep everybody together and they accomplished that.   When Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili went on the FA market, there was never a doubt about resigning them.

 

As far as 4 teams... let see:

 

Dallas never has trouble.

NJ hasn't had trouble.

Chicago never has trouble.

Cleveland didn't have trouble.

Miami didn't have trouble.

Houston is on the fence... they were just out GM'd.

 

But here's the thing...  Rich Cho goes to Charlotte.  Charlotte gets big Al and now Stephenson... not to mention Heyward.

Portland always seems to get who they want.

Washington is also very successful as of late.

 

Lowry chose Toronto.

Phoenix can get players too.

 

I think that when you look it over closely, there are teams who can get FAs when they choose to.  However, we can have a pocket full of money and we have problems.

So many inconsistencies in this post. 

 

Dallas has had all kinds of trouble in signing big names and they have struck out for the past 3 years in a row.  Cuban disbanded the 2011 title team in an effort to go after big stars and he has landed none.

 

What big FA has Chicago landed recently?  Gasol is the first one they have had in a while.

 

Cleveland?  Only because Lebron was born in Ohio and his only out from Miami was Cleveland.  He would have caught so much hell if he left Miami for a different team.

 

 

What FA's have Phoenix signed?

 

Kyle Lowry was traded to Toronto and then resigned with Toronto.  Millsap is an equal player to him and we were able to land him outright in FA.

Edited July 23, 2014 by JETSET

[Diesel]

So many inconsistencies in this post. 

 

Dallas has had all kinds of trouble in signing big names and they have struck out for the past 3 years in a row.  Cuban disbanded the 2011 title team in an effort to go after big stars and he has landed none.

 

What big FA has Chicago landed recently?  Gasol is the first one they have had in a while.

 

Cleveland?  Only because Lebron was born in Ohio and his only out from Miami was Cleveland.  He would have caught so much hell if he left Miami for a different team.

 

 

What FA's have Phoenix signed?

 

Kyle Lowry was traded to Toronto and then resigned with Toronto.  Millsap is an equal player to him and we were able to land him outright in FA.

 

 After their championship, Dallas lost Chandler, Berea, and Stevenson.  True, they wanted Deron and Howard but their losing out on them wasn't because they have an undesirable place.  It was all on D-12.  That dude is crazy.  He diva'd his way through the offseason, Ferry traded Joe to Brooklyn  and Deron went to Brooklyn to play with Joe.

 

Chicago hasn't had money until now.

Phoenix hasn't had good coaching until now.

[Gray Mule]

Our problems have been many and it's not fair to try to pin it down to one thing.

Ownership was a big problem, as we all know.  Remember the in fighting!

 

Having the wrong head coach and staff is another argument altogether.

 

Then, the GM, one of which wanted all Hawks to be the exact same size and be

able to play any of five positions.  We know how that worked out.

 

We overpaid.  Remember, the ownership squabble over this?  I do.

 

For what ever reason, whether it be lack of scouting reports or the GM or the

head coach or the ownership, the Hawks just didn't do well in the draft.

This happened year after year and was not a one shot deal.

 

Sometimes, we thought that the inmates were running the assilum and not

the coaches.  Players telling the coaches what to do instead of the other

way around.

 

Why are we not a desirable destination for super stars?  All of the above

reasons play into their decision, plus one other great thing:

 

How many Hawk players do you ever see on national TV?  All this advertising

money that they pay players to endorse their product, where are the Hawk

players?  In fact, where do you see the Atlanta Hawks promoted outside

of the Interstate 285 around the city? 

[JETSET]

 After their championship, Dallas lost Chandler, Berea, and Stevenson.  True, they wanted Deron and Howard but their losing out on them wasn't because they have an undesirable place.  It was all on D-12.  That dude is crazy.  He diva'd his way through the offseason, Ferry traded Joe to Brooklyn  and Deron went to Brooklyn to play with Joe.

 

Chicago hasn't had money until now.

Phoenix hasn't had good coaching until now.

You really stretch facts to fit your arguments. 

 

You conveniently leave out Dallas's failed attempt at Melo this season. 

 

You use the excuse of not having a good coach for Phoenix.  Isn't that exactly the position we are in?  Last season was our first season with a good coach.  What big free agent has Phoenix landed outside of Nash?

 

Chicago had plenty of money in the year that Wade/Lebron and every one else made their decisions.

Edited July 23, 2014 by JETSET

[NJHAWK]

Our problems have been many and it's not fair to try to pin it down to one thing.

Ownership was a big problem, as we all know.  Remember the in fighting!

 

Having the wrong head coach and staff is another argument altogether.

 

Then, the GM, one of which wanted all Hawks to be the exact same size and be

able to play any of five positions.  We know how that worked out.

 

We overpaid.  Remember, the ownership squabble over this?  I do.

 

For what ever reason, whether it be lack of scouting reports or the GM or the

head coach or the ownership, the Hawks just didn't do well in the draft.

This happened year after year and was not a one shot deal.

 

Sometimes, we thought that the inmates were running the assilum and not

the coaches.  Players telling the coaches what to do instead of the other

way around.

 

Why are we not a desirable destination for super stars?  All of the above

reasons play into their decision, plus one other great thing:

 

How many Hawk players do you ever see on national TV?  All this advertising

money that they pay players to endorse their product, where are the Hawk

players?  In fact, where do you see the Atlanta Hawks promoted outside

of the Interstate 285 around the city? 

As painful as that was to read its 100% truth, the truth just hurts.

[Wretch]

Please let's not spin the subject out of control.  By virtue of simple math, yes, many teams miss out on the big names every year.  However, the big fish, if they can be pried away from their current team, are looking at one thing:

 

"Where can I go that will maximize my chances at winning a ring."

 

We can spin this all day long, but the fact is that elite players go where elite players ARE.  More importantly, those teams get serious consideration (we're not getting that).  LeBron would not be going back to Cleveland if that team didn't have talent - OR the ability to GET talent.  They have it and they can package it to get better if need be.  That's why he's there.  It's a promising situation and if it weren't, he'd be headed back to Miami.

 

Even if was all about him going home, what's Love got to do with it?  (Sorry I had to. lol)  This guy has no ties to Clevel-oh wait, LeBron's there, they have Kyrie, and they have options.  Love would also consider Golden State or Chicago.  Why not us?

 

We don't have the same options for improvement.  We don't have a player that can draw them here.  

We don't have a history of playing past the 2nd round and our fanbase is lacking.  

 

What we have is a good coach and a new GM that is promising a culture change.  That makes us happy, the elite players could give a shit less.  What is going to change things (to include the culture) is a team that KICKS ASS.  You need the kind of elite talent that elite free agents are looking for to do that.

 

All that being said, hindsight is awesome.  In hindsight, Danny Ferry's refusal to break this team down and rebuild is going to look like a missed opportunity.  I'm not a hater, but I'm willing to bet crow on that.

[red2play]

Dallas never has trouble.

NJ hasn't had trouble.

Chicago never has trouble.

Cleveland didn't have trouble.

Miami didn't have trouble.

Houston is on the fence... they were just out GM'd.

 

But here's the thing...  Rich Cho goes to Charlotte.  Charlotte gets big Al and now Stephenson... not to mention Heyward.

Portland always seems to get who they want.

Washington is also very successful as of late.

 

Lowry chose Toronto.

Phoenix can get players too.

 

Who did Portland get? or Phoenix?  They can get players and so can we.  Lowry chose Toronto and Horford chose Atlanta, big whoop.  We are talking about attracting free agents. 

 

Miami attracting free agents?  You mean Luol Deng? He's not Carmelo AND the LOST Lebron.  Chicago has always had trouble, since MJ left.  Gasol at 34 will help but he wont carry the team. 

 

Cleveland couldn't get ANYONE last season.  No LeBron, no dice.  Again, we are talking how to attract FA's.

 

My response to that is that we have the SAME issue as at least 20+ other markets.  This ISNT a tax-free income-tax state.  We aren't CONSIDERED a MAJOR market that spurs interest outside of basketball.  There are two markets that everyone loves.  That's LA and NY, period. 

Miami isn't considered one because everyone has seen D Wade go for YEARS with no help until Lebron came over.  You would also think that OKC, Dallas and Toronto would be prime locations seeing how the fans in those states go wild over the basketball teams but they still don't get Free Agents.  The Bulls are the top team in attendance but they still couldn't get Lebron, or Carmelo.

 

They don't care about attendance,  Fan Fever or ownership troubles.  They want marketability and rings.  That's how it is.

[Diesel]

You really stretch facts to fit your arguments. 

 

You conveniently leave out Dallas's failed attempt at Melo this season. 

 

You use the excuse of not having a good coach for Phoenix.  Isn't that exactly the position we are in?  Last season was our first season with a good coach.  What big free agent has Phoenix landed outside of Nash?

 

Chicago had plenty of money in the year that Wade/Lebron and every one else made their decisions.

 

First Dallas.  had I mentioned Dallas' failure with Melo, I would have to also mention their success with Parsons.  It's a wash.  Anytime a team is able to make a player leave for less money, that team is good at drawing talent.

 

Phoenix.  I would say that Phoenix is not in the same boat as us.  Even when we have had good coaching, were a playoff team...even the second round, we couldn't draw FAs without overpaying them.  Haven't you noticed that Phoenix gets more FA buzz than us and we made the playoffs and they didn't??  And they probably won't next year either.

 

Chicago failed to get Wade/Lebron.  Didn't they have a new coach 4 yrs ago? The thing is when was the last time a superstar considered coming to Atlanta?  Kenyon Martin?  Only to find he used us to leverage a deal with Denver?  That's been our place.  When we have money, Big FAs use us to leverage new deals.  Hello CP3 and D12.

[Diesel]

Please let's not spin the subject out of control.  By virtue of simple math, yes, many teams miss out on the big names every year.  However, the big fish, if they can be pried away from their current team, are looking at one thing:

 

"Where can I go that will maximize my chances at winning a ring."

 

We can spin this all day long, but the fact is that elite players go where elite players ARE.  More importantly, those teams get serious consideration (we're not getting that).  LeBron would not be going back to Cleveland if that team didn't have talent - OR the ability to GET talent.  They have it and they can package it to get better if need be.  That's why he's there.  It's a promising situation and if it weren't, he'd be headed back to Miami.

 

Even if was all about him going home, what's Love got to do with it?  (Sorry I had to. lol)  This guy has no ties to Clevel-oh wait, LeBron's there, they have Kyrie, and they have options.  Love would also consider Golden State or Chicago.  Why not us?

 

We don't have the same options for improvement.  We don't have a player that can draw them here.  

We don't have a history of playing past the 2nd round and our fanbase is lacking.  

 

What we have is a good coach and a new GM that is promising a culture change.  That makes us happy, the elite players could give a shit less.  What is going to change things (to include the culture) is a team that KICKS ASS.  You need the kind of elite talent that elite free agents are looking for to do that.

 

All that being said, hindsight is awesome.  In hindsight, Danny Ferry's refusal to break this team down and rebuild is going to look like a missed opportunity.  I'm not a hater, but I'm willing to bet crow on that.

 

 

Wise words being spoken!!!  Too many at one time and watch the thread start smoking.

Thunder pounds when I stomp the ground like a million elephants or a silver back orangutan, you can't stop the train.

[Wretch]

Wise words being spoken!!!  Too many at one time and watch the thread start smoking.

Thunder pounds when I stomp the ground like a million elephants or a silver back orangutan, you can't stop the train.

 

I don't know how people can overlook the fact that while a team like Chicago could not sign Carmelo...he DID actually go there and meet with them.  Players like that won't even talk to us.

 

 

Loser: Atlanta Hawks

No one will take Atlanta’s money, despite a good core of players, a very good coaching staff, and an innovative style of play Mike Budenholzer has only just begun installing. Some stars won’t even meet with them. I almost wanted to hug Budenholzer when I saw him in Vegas. The most common theory among insiders for Atlanta’s lack of appeal is that players see the Hawks as a dull franchise with a dead crowd and a limited postseason history that almost always involves NBA TV.

That will turn around at some point, but just about everyone Atlanta has approached so far rebuffed the Hawks’ invitation to get in on the ground floor.

 

 

There is some serious homerism going on for people not to see the difference here.  We have to get better to attract better.  I'm not saying we won't get better, but if we're not rebuilding, then we are leaning on trades and free agency.  For this franchise, that's taking a very high risk route to improving that, if we're being honest, doesn't look promising.

 

Personally, I wonder how long before the buzz wears off.  When will people sour on this regime?  What are people's expectations for making the ECF's?  Or are we just gonna keep singing "Rome wasn't built in a day" for the next 10 years...as we continue to piddle around in the middle?

 

The "future"  Ferry's building can't get here soon enough for me...