I'm back to my first assumption on Payne...

[JTB]

I believe Bud will try him at center to see how he performs along with Horford at power forward in spot minutes than gradually go up before the trade deadline.

If it all goes well and they are playing good together I believe ferry will try to trade sap for a good young 3 (SF).

Also I predict bud will try the rookie Payne at Center with Sap at PF to see how it goes.

If everything goes well and the rookie actually makes an impact at center, it just seems like a good idea to trade sap for a good wing player to me.

Thoughts?

[Guest]

Not a bad idea to try that for spot minutes here and there to see if it works or not. Ultimately though we seem to have 3 good pf's in Horford, Sap and Payne. At some point I think we will try and trade for a wing like you mentioned. I've always been from the school of throwing top 5 players out on the floor and seeing what happens.

[buckeye242424]

I don't totally understand all the "trading Sap" chatter everywhere. He was an all star and a quality guy. Is it because his deal is up? Or Payne? Ii dunno... He's a lunch pail guy, and I'd like DF to extended him.

[yungsta]

I don't totally understand all the "trading Sap" chatter everywhere. He was an all star and a quality guy. Is it because his deal is up? Or Payne? Ii dunno... He's a lunch pail guy, and I'd like DF to extended him.

Because if payne plays well, we will have a log jam at PF. The main purpose of drafting payne was probably for Millsap insurance/replacement. Dont think Ferry plans to break the bank to try to keep millsap, and will most likely focus on the other issues with the roster in the offseason.

[JETSET]

Ferry would be foolish to trade sap midseason unless he gets a big haul for him, which he wont.

My guess is that sap is a Hawk for all of next season

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Payne won't play significant minutes until year 3.  I agree he plays predominantly at 5, but Horford/Sap will be our frontcourt for the rest of the season barring injury or trade.

 

And the reason posters don't like Sap is because he'll be looking for $10+mil and he makes our frontcourt small.  He's only 6'7", but I'd be okay if Ferry/Bud wanted to try Sap out at the 3 and trading for Monroe between November and the deadline.  We need rebounding and inside scoring and Sap/Horford doesn't do much for that.

[buckeye242424]

Because if payne plays well, we will have a log jam at PF. The main purpose of drafting payne was probably for Millsap insurance/replacement. Dont think Ferry plans to break the bank to try to keep millsap, and will most likely focus on the other issues with the roster in the offseason.

I understand your point... But I think drafting Payne was because he was the best/most potential player there at our spot. Paul came to Atlanta for nothing... Played his ass off. Just cuz we drafted a non proven rookie doesn't mean we should not think about re-signing Sap.

[RWF]

I don't totally understand all the "trading Sap" chatter everywhere. He was an all star and a quality guy. Is it because his deal is up? Or Payne? Ii dunno... He's a lunch pail guy, and I'd like DF to extended him.

 

If you extend Millsap, you are extending the same roster, because outside of trading Teague/Horford, nothing will better this team after signing Millsap for more money over more years. Cap space gone, draft position the same, not contenders, etc.

[buckeye242424]

How many games have Sap and Horf played together? Two proven team players... You gotta give them a chance to play. In a nice system with a decent PG with a Olympian sniper on the wing. Let's roll with it... We've never done anything. Trade an all star....?

[Guest]

1.  Who is the fantasy SF that might be available at the trade deadline who can help right away?

2.  I know it's highly unlikely but what if DF/Bud can convince Millsap to come off the bench (ala Manu Ginobli) 

[Guest]

Payne won't play significant minutes until year 3.

Not true. You don't draft a 23 year old senior from college to wait another 3 years for him to play.

Dennis Schröder you draft to wait a few years. Payne better be ready to roll.

[Vol4ever]

Once again trying to predict big seasons for a rookie. Last year Dennis was going to be rookie of the year and we see how that played out. I think Payne as a 4 yr college player will be more mature and contribute but he won't be a player that moves Sap.

[DrReality]

Payne has the ability to be a force off the bench. Agree he can't wait three years. But the issue in the offense is ball movement and Payne can do that at 4 or 5 as can Horf and Sap

[ViperXX79]

Fans wanting to give Sap big money.  Ferry sure has tricked some of you into thinking that will somehow lead to a championship...

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Not true. You don't draft a 23 year old senior from college to wait another 3 years for him to play.

Dennis Schröder you draft to wait a few years. Payne better be ready to roll.

By significant minutes, I meant 30+. Basically starter minutes. He may get 20-25 minutes by year 3, but he won't be starting unless he just goes nuts and Horford leaves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JTB]

1.  Who is the fantasy SF that might be available at the trade deadline who can help right away?

2.  I know it's highly unlikely but what if DF/Bud can convince Millsap to come off the bench (ala Manu Ginobli)

So you seem to have been the only one with a valid point!

I'm not suggesting to trade sap cause I hate him....I want to see the hawks become a better overall team so Im hoping that we get lucky and our rookie shows the hell out but you suggested something a lot better that I can honestly say I have thought about.

Ferry should go hard after Monroe if he signs the qualifying offer and resign sap next off season with the intentions of playing sap off the bench in a ginobli type role....I can already tell hawksquawkers are going to complain "why would an all star come off the bench" but once he's resigned he has no choice.

It's a move that could work out and make the hawks contenders as we would have 5 really good big men to rotate with sap also being able to play spot minutes at the 3, sounds like too much money in the front court but I would disagree because bud would know how to use all of the talent given to him.

So this is what I want to see the next season (not this season coming up)

Starters:

Pg- Teague ( head of snake)

Sg- korver (best sharpshooter in the game)

Sf- DMC (great hustler with improved 3ball)

Pf- Horford (all star big)

C- Monroe (inside scoring/rebounding big man)

Bench

Pg- Dennis (head of snake on bench)

Sg- Bazemore (slasher)

Sf-?(pick up a good 3 ball shooter)

Pf- Sap (top sixth man of the year candidate)

C-Payne (stretch big, will grow in bud system)

*mack and Scott would be good providing shooters on bench.

Bud would win coach of the year and the hawks would be a serious contenders with this fantastic all around team! Talk about putting fear in our opponents with two decent moves!

[Guest]

He may get 20-25 minutes by year 3, but he won't be starting unless he just goes nuts and Horford leaves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm hoping he gets 20-25 before year 3....it better happen within 1.5 years.

[MaceCase]

Ferry should go hard after Monroe if he signs the qualifying offer and resign sap next off season with the intentions of playing sap off the bench in a ginobli type role....I can already tell hawksquawkers are going to complain "why would an all star come off the bench" but once he's resigned he has no choice.

So let me get this straight, you assume that despite watching the Hawks already go "hard" after Monroe that both Millsap and his agent would be stupid enough to go ahead and resign without ever once considering "hey, Danny. Given that there seems to be a logjam at my position and the fervor of which you went after a potential replacement, do you think that would have any possibility of reducing my role?"

 

This is a situation of putting the cart before the horse.  You actually have to have Millsap signed first before you entertain the idea of dicking him around.  Dicking players around has this unforeseen effect of making them disgruntled.  Disgruntled players have this unforeseen habit of wanting out of situations that are disgruntling them.  If Ferry and Bud have any intentions of making Sap a backup then he will have to clear it with him and his agent first and foremost because such a distinction has the effect of determining price point and a very glaring point of which you omitted that is especially important because guess what?  Monroe is also an unristricted free agent at the very exact same time as Sap is if he signs his QO.  That means you actually and delicately have to throughly convince not one but both players of accepting their roles while they each have the opportunity of seeking other situations more to their liking which would leave the Hawks high and dry.

[Guest]

(Never thought I'd say this but ..) Agree totally with @MaceCase.  No way Millsap re-signs here if Ferry starts hemming and hawing about a bench role.  Another thing to consider, which MC touched on, is are we to pay him like a starter if we intend him to be a bench guy?  I'd be shocked if we did that since we're so "sensible".  I'd say that'd ensure he'd sign elsewhere.

 

Now that I think about it, our FO is so inept it might be up their alley to screw around a free agent.  I mean they are soooooo smart that no one could figure out their secret plan, right? (Sorry that was a low blow.)

[JTB]

So let me get this straight, you assume that despite watching the Hawks already go "hard" after Monroe that both Millsap and his agent would be stupid enough to go ahead and resign without ever once considering "hey, Danny. Given that there seems to be a logjam at my position and the fervor of which you went after a potential replacement, do you think that would have any possibility of reducing my role?"

This is a situation of putting the cart before the horse. You actually have to have Millsap signed first before you entertain the idea of dicking him around. Dicking players around has this unforeseen effect of making them disgruntled. Disgruntled players have this unforeseen habit of wanting out of situations that are disgruntling them. If Ferry and Bud have any intentions of making Sap a backup then he will have to clear it with him and his agent first and foremost because such a distinction has the effect of determining price point and a very glaring point of which you omitted that is especially important because guess what? Monroe is also an unristricted free agent at the very exact same time as Sap is if he signs his QO. That means you actually and delicately have to throughly convince not one but both players of accepting their roles while they each have the opportunity of seeking other situations more to their liking which would leave the Hawks high and dry.

Trust me I'm not "dicking" any of these players, simply trying to put out a contending team.

I agree with you ferry and bud would have to sell both players on what their roles would be...hopefully they can see the how great a team that would make the hawks as well as contenders and agree with it.

I'm not trying to sell sap short....geeez....I'm just trying to put him and the hawks in a instant contender situation. Having 4 very good bigs is awesome...the wing positions will be filled with 3ball players and slashers (Bazemore would probably be a great role player as a starter or bench player as long as he learns the system.)

Here's the thing about sap though...he fits in buds system perfectly but he's also 30. Not a good idea to give a 30 year old 12-14m over 4 years so try to convince him to take a paycut so we can add in another good player so sap and the hawks can actually contend for a championship instead of being that middle team.

Edited August 18, 2014 by JTB