Julio or AJ Green coming up on Playbook on NFL Network

[NJHAWK]

What has AJ done? Have the Bengals even been out of the 1st round with him? And TO and Moss? They played on some of the best teams and offenses of their generations. 

 

Calvin is playing on a team who's QB is perpetually injured and they've had absolute turds for coaches with no ideas how to put up points. 

 

Just not sure I can buy any sort of argument about a WR lifting his team though. Only a QB is going to be able to do that consistently.

As a Bengal fan I kind of agree with your point about AJ. Dalton and AJ came into the league together and made the playoffs all 3 seasons and lost round 1 each time. The 1st 2 years they were away at Houston and were underdogs and the 2nd game went to the wire. For all the grief Dalton gets last year vs San Diego is the only game of those 3 we were supposed to win. Also in those games it wasnt just Daltons fault by far. The offensive and defensive lines were well outplayed, Aj dropped a huge 50 yard pass vs San Diego, Bernard fumbled inside the 5 on his way to a td. Dont get me wrong once we got down by 4 Dalton panicked and started playing like we were down 4tds.AJ hasnt really stepped up in the playoffs yet. Hope this will be the year.

[NJHAWK]

I think at times Julio, AJ and Dez can either be shut down or at least contained by 1 defender. Calvin certainly cannot and I dont think Marshall can be either. There is a bigger gap between Calvin and Marshall who is my number 2. I still think Marshall is the #2 though, better than AJ, Julio and Dez. Those guys can get to his level and pass him perhaps but not yet imho.

[Admin]

Funny but all this debate over who's better and none of those guys have more TDs in the past 8 games than Mike Wallace,who has 6. Calvin has 3, Julio has 5 including this week, AJ also has 6 and Marshall has 6. Thus was from an ESPN article the other day. Only Decker has more with 9.

[Admin]

And let me tell you guys, if Tannehill could hit a wide open Wallace deep he'd have twice that many.

[Guest]

And let me tell you guys, if Tannehill could hit a wide open Wallace deep he'd have twice that many.

Is Tannehill still with that cutie? Lol

[Admin]

Is Tannehill still with that cutie? Lol

His wife? Uhh yeah they're still together lol

[DrReality]

I had no clue AJ had that kind of talent while he was at GA.  Its also cool all three, AJ, Calvin and Julio have ties to GA. 

[jy23]

And let me tell you guys, if Tannehill could hit a wide open Wallace deep he'd have twice that many.

Yeah what's up with that? I have Wallace on one of my fantasy teams but I'm scared to play him bc they can't hit deep... I don't get it.

[jy23]

You wanted me to compare the two in this ongoing debate(if you want to call it one) by saying more than "it's ridiculous to compare them". So I go ahead and do that with stats(the only way to do so) and now you don't want stats?

What would you like then? Lol. The criteria for this debate keeps changing with you. Next you'll want me to compare the two through a rap song but I am omitted to use the words bigger, better, faster, stronger...oh and prolly Calvin...I'm gonna need some time

Nothing has changed for me, I've talked about the same things from the beginning. You keep saying Calvin has more yards....yes he does, we all know that. I told you the reason y as well. Then I also pointed out to you that when Julio was getting the type of targets that Calvin gets on a regular basis he was on track to bests Calvin's best year in just his third year....let's ignore that tho. Let's talk about rap songs and other stupid crap to deflect. It's cool tho, like I said let's just wait until the end of the season.

[Admin]

Yeah what's up with that? I have Wallace on one of my fantasy teams but I'm scared to play him bc they can't hit deep... I don't get it.

I'd play Wallace no matter what this year. He looks like a different receiver, he's actually tried trucking DBs this year. And he seems to be Ryan's favorite target this year as well. The deep ball is close, we just aren't quite hitting it. Part of the problem is Wallace doesn't just straight up put the burners on, he coasts and lulls the DB and then turns it on and blows past him and that seems to give Ryan problems. Either way I think you can expect a TD and about 6-8 catches a week out of him on most weeks.

[jy23]

I'm starting him today, it's my first time and I hope you're right. I need him to show up bc my other receivers that I had starting haven't been doing much of anything (Fitzgerald and Keenan Allen). Hopefully mike can give me a boost.

[Guest]

Then I also pointed out to you that when Julio was getting the type of targets that Calvin gets on a regular basis he was on track to bests Calvin's best year in just his third year

Best Calvin's best year? Lol. You do realize Calvin had a near 2000 yard season right? He broke Jerry Rice's record. Julio's best was under 1200 yards in a season. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Julio will NEVER break the single season record set by Calvin..not this year, not in 2015, or even 2017.

You also keep saying.."if Julio was targeted as much..then he could _____ and he would ________."

In the wise words of Jerry Seinfeld..."Anything could be done, but it's only done if its done."

[jy23]

Yeah I do realize that...that's the year I'm referring to. I've made that clear numerous times, I don't think you're actually reading my posts so let me make it clearer.....

In 2013 the falcons started the year with a hobbled roddy white, so because of that mister Julio jones was targeted more frequently than normal. Due to those extra targets he began the season on a torrid pace that would have put him right on par with the record breaking year that mister Calvin Johnson had just the year before. Now just for reference lets not forget that 2013 was only mister jones third year in the NFL, while mister Johnson was in his 6th year putting up those numbers. The logic is pretty simple if you take the time out to think.....less targets for Julio equals less yards, more targets for Julio equals more yards. Julio over his career has a higher catch percentage than mister Johnson (meaning he catches more of the balsa that are thrown his way and he also has fewer drops) so one could assume that mister jones has better hands right...so more targets would make a difference no? Since you're not understanding this I bow out of the conversation and as I stated earlier we can come back to this at the end of the year.

[Guest]

Since you're not understanding this I bow out of the conversation and as I stated earlier we can come back to this at the end of the year.

Believe me I'm trying to understand it the best I can. I definitely read your posts all the way through as well. I guess my misunderstanding mainly comes from not totally understanding your ultimate point. I guess I think your point is that IF Julio was targeted more then he would be on the same level or better than Calvin because he has great hands?

Either way I'm definitely not trolling and personally would love to leave this conversation until the end of the season. I'm a huge Lions fan and this is Falcons forum so I don't want it to seem like I'm steering any topic away from the Falcons, as I know I wouldn't appreciate it if a fan of another nba team came to our Hawks board and starting talking about their team.

Anyways, I hope the Falcons have a wonderful season and I wish them the best of luck.

[jy23]

No no no, I don't want you to feel like your opinion isn't wanted...I just realize that with this topic we're going to talk in circles until there's more to base the conversation off of. I understand your love of Calvin, if he was a falcon I would be the same way but I honestly feel like people forgot just how good Julio is and how fast he started last year bc he got hurt and just faded out of people's mind. He will definitely make em remember this year tho as he is lighting it up again to start the year @Spud2Nique

Edited September 22, 2014 by jy23

[Guest]

No no no, I don't want you to feel like your opinion isn't wanted...I just realize that with this topic we're going to talk in circles until there's more to base the conversation off of. I understand your love of Calvin, if he was a falcon I would be the same way but I honestly feel like people forgot just how good Julio is and how fast he started last year bc he got hurt and just faded out of people's mind. He will definitely make em remember this year tho as he is lighting it up again to start the year @Spud2Nique

Yup I agree. Julio is a great young player and should have many more years to go. I don't think last year's injury will slow his career down by any means. Also agree the debate was going in circles. Lol. I definitely do think that one thing that's missing from Calvin's resume is team success. Unfortunately we had the carbon copy experience with Barry Sanders. Here's hoping to a great season turned in for both players and both squads. Cheers!

[AHF]

The unbiased nearly unanimously agree Megatron is the most complete and dominating WR ever.

 

That isn't remotely true.  What most people agree on is that he is the best right now.  He has a LOOOONNNNGGGG way to go to make a claim as the best ever unless you are one of the people that looked at Bo Jackson and concluded a short way into his career that he was the best RB in NFL history.

Edited September 22, 2014 by AHF

[Admin]

That isn't remotely true. What most people agree on is that he is the best right now. He has a LOOOONNNNGGGG way to go to make a claim as the best ever unless you are one of the people that looked at Bo Jackson and concluded a short way into his career that he was the best RB in NFL history.

Negative. What you're saying isn't remotely true. If you'll go back you'll note I didn't say he was the best WR ever. Just like Bo isn't the best RB ever but he's the most physically dominant and gifted, just as Calvin is at WR.

Again this is about physical skills, not production.

[AHF]

Negative. What you're saying isn't remotely true. If you'll go back you'll note I didn't say he was the best WR ever. Just like Bo isn't the best RB ever but he's the most physically dominant and gifted, just as Calvin is at WR.

Again this is about physical skills, not production.

 

Still totally wrong that people unanimously believe he is the most dominating WR in history.  (I'm equally sure it isn't unanimous about the physical side since unanimity is a high bar to pass but let's ignore that).  Same thing as with Bo.  Physically impressive isn't the same as dominant.  MJ wasn't the most physically impressive player ever but many believe he was most dominating player in NBA history.  That was about a combination of results, physical skill, and mental toughness.  Calvin is a very impressive physical specimen and certainly one of the lead people in the conversation about best physique but guys who don't even hit 10 TDs repeatedly in seasons with historical high targets aren't gimmees as the most dominating players ever at a position.  

 

Here is an SI & Cold Hard Facts debate on the most dominant receiver ever from Calvin's 4th season in 2010.  Two names listed:  Jerry Rice and Don Huston.  Calvin isn't mentioned.

 

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/08/06/halloffame

 

Plus, if you want to just go primarily with physically dominant receivers you have to include Randy Moss in there with Calvin.  Heck, Randy's rookie season he put up more yards per catch than Calvin has ever done (by a large margin) and scored more touchdowns than Calvin has ever scored.  In fact, on the yards per catch Moss's first three seasons three seasons all average to a number well above Calvin's career high and he did on a comparable number of targets.  

 

Probably why Moss was in the league for 7 years before he put up a season with as few total yards as Calvin's 1st, 3rd and 4th seasons.

 

Calvin was so dominant that in 204 targets in 2012 he put up an amazing 5 TDs!  Now that is dominance to be able to put up a TD for every 40 targets you get (well, not quite every 40 but almost every 40).  /sarcasm

 

Among their peers, that natural physical dominance comes through as well.  Moss was an All-Pro his rookie year and 5 of his first 6 seasons.  Calvin wasn't an All-Pro until his 5th year in the league.  It is precisely his physical dominance that allowed Randy to dominate so early in his career.  Unfortunately, that early dominance took away the hunger and he validated a lot of the draft day criticism that caused him to drop when he lost that focus.  Even with his dominance (23 TDs in a season!), he remains a "what could have been" had he had the mental toughness and discipline of someone like Rice.

 

I don't remotely have to stretch to say that Moss was more dominant than Calvin until he lost his focus on the game.  That guy killed it every season and punched it in the end zone like he was punching a time clock.  He didn't have down seasons until his head got out of the game.  Calvin has had several down seasons despite never missing more than 2 games and receiving historic targets nearly every year.

 

He is definitely my pick as the best wide receiver in the game today but I have to call "time out" when we start talking about him being the "unanimous" All-Time Great at anything with his track record to date.

 

Here is a debate on Moss vs Calvin for most "dominant WR" with action on both sides (albeit more for Moss):

 

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AwrBT.Cr0yBU1gYA6bxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExczFramY5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1VJQzFfMQ--?qid=20120114114533AAcdv1T

 

Here is another Moss / Calvin debate:

 

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51569

 

Moss at his best was the most dominant WR ever. Not the best WR but the most dominant at his peak.

 

 

View Poll Results: Who is better? Megatron 17 25.37% Randy 50 74.63%

[AHF]

In short, it isn't remotely unanimous that Calvin Johnson is the most dominant receiver in NFL history.