Will Horford become a two way force on offense? And what to expect from Horford or Sap off the bench?

[JTB]

With the trade of Tiago Splitter, this move tells us that Splitter will likely get some starts during the season for the Hawks just like he did in San Antonio. Likely this will be against the centers who are obviously bigger and more powerful than Al Horford (not that Horford can't handle his own cause he's proven that he can but no need to waste a reliable big man option who has size and can contribute as a starter when needed.)

But with that lets get into a deeper discussion here shall we!....Tiago is going to be inserted as the starting center when a Big lineup is NEEDED, we all knew that from the time the trade took place but what happens to Sap and Horford?

Many thought Sap would move to the 3 as his new normal position in a BIG lineup situation but that isn't so according to the summer league interview with Coach Bud who said that the Hawks plan to test Sap out at the 3 a little and it's possible he will get minutes there but by no means is it a permanent position or that he will get more or major minutes at the 3 than others.....so that brings us to 3 major questions coming up this season that will be completely different than last years Hawks.

1. In games where a Big lineup will take place with newly acquired Tiago as center, how well will Horford or Sap play when coming off the bench leading the second unit in those games?

2. Can Horford become a two way offensive player at the 4? We all know horford is one of the best mid range shooters in the NBA but how will he perform around the basket against guys his size? Will he become a beast in the post or will he stay the same around the basket (which isn't bad by any means)?

3. And last when this BIG lineup is used how will this affect the Bench rotation now that we know Sap or Horford will likely be playing majority minutes with the bench in these games?

DISCUSS!

[Gray Mule]

Oh, what a terrible problem we face with our Hawk team and our lineup.

 

We're going to start a big lineup.  We must have a center, a power forward

and a small forward.  We have available Splitter, Horford and Millsap.

 

Gives us a headache just thinking about it.  What to do? Who goes where?

Can they handle this?  Must we start all three?  What if we don't?

 

Aren't you glad that this is Bud's problem and not ours!  Do you suppose that

Bud is smart enough to figure this out?  Are these players smart enough to

handle all these problems when they come up?

 

I believe that it's wonderful to have a problem like this. 

 

Several years ago the Hawks faced the problem of having five players who were

good enough to start and finding some players to help out, coming off the bench.

That season, we Hawk fans celebrated 13 times as our beloved team won!

 

I suppose that the point is, Hawks will always face problems.  This one is a

great one to have!

[Mdizzle5]

I still don't think he'll be any better at the 4. He's had more offensive advantages against the 5s (mainly quickness) in the League but hardly ever exploited them. Also, I don't think his post play will improve all that much and that he's already what he's going to be at this point.

[Jody23]

I don't see Splitter starting unless Horf or Sap are injured. The acquisition of Splitter was a move that came about after the Hawks' first option of bringing back Carroll and Pero fell thru. If the Hawks didn't start Pero vs bigger lineups, then why will they do that now with Splitter? I get that Splitter is an upgrade over Pero, but under Bud, the Hawks like to stick to their style of play rather than adjust to the other teams personnel.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Jody23

[JTB]

I don't see Splitter starting unless Horf or Sap are injured. The acquisition of Splitter was a move that came about after the Hawks' first option of bringing back Carroll and Pero fell thru. If the Hawks didn't start Pero vs bigger lineups, then why will they do that now with Splitter? I get that Splitter is an upgrade over Pero, but under Bud, the Hawks like to stick to their style of play rather than adjust to the other teams personnel.

Can't compare pero to an actual quality starter like splitter. Splitter is going to start when NEEDED against those bigger guys like mosgov. If he can start on San Antonio when needed, what makes you think Bud isn't going to use him the same way here?...these bigs on the east are no where near as good as the west bigs therefore I'm positive he can hold his own and effect the game in a positive way.

Oh, what a terrible problem we face with our Hawk team and our lineup.

We're going to start a big lineup. We must have a center, a power forward

and a small forward. We have available Splitter, Horford and Millsap.

Gives us a headache just thinking about it. What to do? Who goes where?

Can they handle this? Must we start all three? What if we don't?

Aren't you glad that this is Bud's problem and not ours! Do you suppose that

Bud is smart enough to figure this out? Are these players smart enough to

handle all these problems when they come up?

I believe that it's wonderful to have a problem like this.

Several years ago the Hawks faced the problem of having five players who were

good enough to start and finding some players to help out, coming off the bench.

That season, we Hawk fans celebrated 13 times as our beloved team won!

I suppose that the point is, Hawks will always face problems. This one is a

great one to have!

I agree Gray! This is a great problem to have.

[Jody23]

Can't compare pero to an actual quality starter like splitter. Splitter is going to start when NEEDED against those bigger guys like mosgov. If he can start on San Antonio when needed, what makes you think Bud isn't going to use him the same way here?...these bigs on the east are no where near as good as the west bigs therefore I'm positive he can hold his own and effect the game in a positive way.

I agree Gray! This is a great problem to have.

Has Bud stated that Splitter would be a situational starter or are you making an assumption that he will be? Furthermore, just because the Spurs did something doesn't automatically mean the Hawks will. Bud does alot of things his own way.

[High5]

The benefit of Horford/Splitter is on the defensive end. Horford has more offensive potential as a center IMO.

[JTB]

Has Bud stated that Splitter would be a situational starter or are you making an assumption that he will be? Furthermore, just because the Spurs did something doesn't automatically mean the Hawks will. Bud does alot of things his own way.

No I admit it's my assumptions off of buds interviews but I would shocked if he doesn't start against bigger centers where horford could move down to the 4. It's just better defensively too. I'm not saying splitter will get starter minutes on average but I should be more specific and say that against bigger centers who are actually good offensively in the post I believe bud will start splitter.

Every center in the league that's bigger than horford isn't better than him or a threat against him therefore horford will continue to be our starting center.

But against guys like Al Jefferson, Mosgov, Dwight Howard there's no reason to continue to bang horford against these guys if you don't have to and I don't believe bud will

[Jody23]

No I admit it's my assumptions off of buds interviews but I would shocked if he doesn't start against bigger centers where horford could move down to the 4. It's just better defensively too. I'm not saying splitter will get starter minutes on average but I should be more specific and say that against bigger centers who are actually good offensively in the post I believe bud will start splitter.

Every center in the league that's bigger than horford isn't better than him or a threat against him therefore horford will continue to be our starting center.

But against guys like Al Jefferson, Mosgov, Dwight Howard there's no reason to continue to bang horford against these guys if you don't have to and I don't believe bud will

I don't disagree with the idea and I would assume Al wouldn't either. But, there simply is nothing to suggest Bud will do this. In fact, most of the stuff coming out of the media suggests the Hawks will continue with the starting front court of Horford and Millsap no matter the size of the opponent.

[capstone21]

I doubt that anyone becomes a big time scorer in our offense ... It's meant to be a sharing system where anyone can be the leading scorer each game

[Static]

We need to stop letting our Franchise Piece bang with centers who are way bigger than him.

[MaceCase]

We need to stop letting our Franchise Piece bang with centers who are way bigger than him.

Take him away from his advantages against those bigger players and he's no longer a "Franchise Piece".

[DJlaysitup]

.... In fact, most of the stuff coming out of the media suggests the Hawks will continue with the starting front court of Horford and Millsap no matter the size of the opponent.

Yeah Jody23...I think Splitter will be better than Pero...but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he will be "leaps and bounds" better. Pero was actually fairly good with his feet and defended decently. When his shot was on he was handy to have. If you lump together Pero, Zaza, and Splitter...I would definitely take Splitter...by a bit.

[cam1218]

Horford always came out in the first quarter at the six minute (or so) point. I think we keep the same rotation but maybe mix up the Horford/Splitter Millsap/Splitter combinations a lot more than we did with those guys and Pero.

[JTB]

Take him away from his advantages against those bigger players and he's no longer a "Franchise Piece".

Lol well unfortunately you can't prove that because he has yet to play significant minutes there. So we honestly don't know how horford fairs against other power forwards but I wouldn't be shocked if he exceeded expectations. This will be the first year he gets more significant minutes at the pf position

[Jody23]

Yeah Jody23...I think Splitter will be better than Pero...but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he will be "leaps and bounds" better. Pero was actually fairly good with his feet and defended decently. When his shot was on he was handy to have. If you lump together Pero, Zaza, and Splitter...I would definitely take Splitter...by a bit.

I'm hoping he is significantly better than Pero. Splitter was the starting center on that Spurs title team in 2013 and played really well. If Pero were on that team, I don't think he would have played as I couldn't see Pop tolerating Pero's antics and inabilities on the offensive end. That said, I know what Splitter did then isn't a guarantee he'll do the same here.

[MaceCase]

Lol well unfortunately you can't prove that because he has yet to play significant minutes there. So we honestly don't know how horford fairs against other power forwards but I wouldn't be shocked if he exceeded expectations. This will be the first year he gets more significant minutes at the pf position

But I can because he has and newsflash, Al just doesn't have the stuff. He's not going to turn into Chris Webber or Lamarcus Aldrige in the post just because he switches defenders. Those guys were magically able to just as easily average 20 and 10 at Center as they were at PF so the excuses for Al has done run out. There's a significant sample size with him at PF in addition to just watching him as a player from college through the pros to know down to the T his actual skillset.

The only remaining excuse is preserving him physically but apparently him no longer resorting to bro science as his training regimen has helped to alleviate that concern also.

[JTB]

But I can because he has and newsflash, Al just doesn't have the stuff. He's not going to turn into Chris Webber or Lamarcus Aldrige in the post just because he switches defenders. Those guys were magically able to just as easily average 20 and 10 at Center as they were at PF so the excuses for Al has done run out. There's a significant sample size with him at PF in addition to just watching him as a player from college through the pros to know down to the T his actual skillset.

The only remaining excuse is preserving him physically but apparently him no longer resorting to bro science as his training regimen has helped to alleviate that concern also.

I hear ya....but we still don't know for sure if horford can't be more effective in the post against opposing 4s. You don't have any real proof that horford can't be better in the post against 4s.

I'm not trying to say that horford is on the level of lamarcus or webber offensively, I'm saying it's possible for horford to be more effective in the post against other power forwards rather than the centers he normally go up against.

If you think the position doesn't matter and that horford is what he is that's your opinion and fair to stay. I can't say your wrong I'm just making a case that horford could improve in the post against the 4. Unless you can really prove that horford would be the same (which I don't believe you or anyone else can) then we just have to wait and see because he will get plenty of opportunity to prove if he fairs better against power forwards.

[nonono]

boss is one of my favorite hawks, past or present, but his post-up game is weak-sauce....go watch the cavs games, even with dellasdfkjasldf;jk on him he still looked awkward posting up- horford is a great midrange shooter and his bread and butter is coming off the pick and pop

[JTB]

boss is one of my favorite hawks, past or present, but his post-up game is weak-sauce....go watch the cavs games, even with dellasdfkjasldf;jk on him he still looked awkward posting up- horford is a great midrange shooter and his bread and butter is coming off the pick and pop

I know that horford hasn't been the best in the post (been watching him since the Hawks drafted him like everyone else ) but he now has a really good reason to improve in that area and I think he can to a point where he's very effective.