I Am Calling Out Those That Call Al Horford anything other than BOSS

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, bumpyphish1 said:

That's just ignorant.  Millsap turned down more money from the Magic to stay in Atlanta.   How soon we forget.

I would say that wasn't a hometown discount.  It was not wanting to go to a crap team versus wanting to play with a team that was an ECF contender.  As long as we remain in that class of team, we will get a large % of players to sign with us over the dregs of the league for a few dollars less.

[Mdizzle5]

No one says he ISN'T valuable. It's just that his value ISN'T worth the max. You give game changers the max. Players that can be relied on when the game plan fails and can put the team on their backs. 

Al Horford, and I do like the guy, is not that player. Al is a decent piece of the puzzle but he isn't THE piece. 

[bumpyphish1]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I would say that wasn't a hometown discount.  It was not wanting to go to a crap team versus wanting to play with a team that was an ECF contender.  As long as we remain in that class of team, we will get a large % of players to sign with us over the dregs of the league for a few dollars less.

I don't care about the label-"hometown discount"---he picked us for less.  Maybe Al wants continuity and to play for a winner, too, no?  Like, instead of getting the max from someone like the Nuggets?  He has been with Atlanta even longer than 'Sap.  I don't see why it would make any less sense for Al to take a little less to stay here.

And, if we don't re-sign him, we are fools.  Period.

[Diesel]

On 1/2/2016 at 10:29 AM, RedDawg#8 said:

For the record I'm OK with a contract similar to Pauls. And if he is willing to take a hometown discount I'm ok with giving him just a little more for nostalgias sake at an even 20 million per. Nothing more though until Al decides he should start playing like its a contract year. I've never seen any body in pro sports visibly try less and end up asking for more money. 

 

I don't disagree here.   I think what is going to happen though is that Al is going to want us to pay him max because he took such a hometown discount the last time.   I can't see us maxing him because contracts are about the future and not the past.

I doubt that Al will play like a contract year for fear of being injured in his contract year.

 

[Diesel]

On 1/2/2016 at 5:36 PM, Atlantaholic said:

What piece is there that is going to bring us a championship? What mythical star wing player or Center are we replacing Al with after he walks? People are saying "oh my god, what will we do if we tie up our money on Al, our franchise will be doomed". Well what do we do with the money otherwise? Give me one concrete example of a move that would make us better?  You guys think we are the only teams that are gonna be "overpaying"  our FAs?  The cap is going up like 40% next year.  25 million is the new 15, 15 million the new 8. 

 

This is the hard part of the GM job.  For one, none of us can really say what player would fit best in this system.  IF we let Al walk and miraculously were able to sign Ryan Anderson and Harrison Barnes, then it's possible that that combination could win.   I mean, nobody forsaw the impact that DMC and Sap would have on this team.  So in a sense, we have to trust the braintrust.   Moreover, that also means if they can ponder a way to make the system work better with Al, we would have to consider that too.   It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth to see Al half assing out there knowing that he could get a max contract while doing it. 

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, bumpyphish1 said:

And, if we don't re-sign him, we are fools.  Period.

And if we do, we continue being a good team but a non title contender, unless a star two way wing player is acquired and Edy is able to be that 25-26 MPG banger off the bench.

 

A team led by Al Horford is not a title contender or one in which it just adds auxiliary pieces to compliment him.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth to see Al half assing out there knowing that he could get a max contract while doing it. 

This.

30 points, 13 rebounds followed by 11 points and 3 rebounds. No consistency whatsoever and he's more likely to have numbers closer to 11/3 over the next 5 games than sniff 30/13

The standard for max contracts has been lowered across the board.

 

[Jody23]

Millsap still got his max money per year from the Hawks that the Magic were offering.  The significant difference was he signed for three years instead of the four years the Magic offered.  He did that in hopes of cashing in one more time when (if) the salary cap sky rockets as he can opt out after next season.  So I wouldn't say he took less money to stay in Atlanta when you look at it per year.  And even if you look at the length of the deal, he did that to benefit himself, not neccesarily the Hawks.

[Jody23]

And just guessing here, but I wouldn't bet on Al taking a contract structure similar to Paul's mainly because of his injury history.  I think he goes for a four or five year deal at max money.

[bumpyphish1]

44 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And if we do, we continue being a good team but a non title contender, unless a star two way wing player is acquired and Edy is able to be that 25-26 MPG banger off the bench.

 

A team led by Al Horford is not a title contender or one in which it just adds auxiliary pieces to compliment him.

I'm over this debate with you.  Agree to disagree.

[bumpyphish1]

16 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Millsap still got his max money per year from the Hawks that the Magic were offering.  The significant difference was he signed for three years instead of the four years the Magic offered.  He did that in hopes of cashing in one more time when (if) the salary cap sky rockets as he can opt out after next season.  So I wouldn't say he took less money to stay in Atlanta when you look at it per year.  And even if you look at the length of the deal, he did that to benefit himself, not neccesarily the Hawks.

That's not exactly accurate.  Yes, he took one less year but it was universally accepted that such action would result in less career earnings.  Paul knew that.  He didn't do it b/c he thought he could get another big contract.  That's just BS

[bumpyphish1]

51 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And if we do, we continue being a good team but a non title contender, unless a star two way wing player is acquired and Edy is able to be that 25-26 MPG banger off the bench.

 

A team led by Al Horford is not a title contender or one in which it just adds auxiliary pieces to compliment him.

Nobody is saying that Al is a number one on a championship team, bro.  We're either gonna have to add another star or do it the Pistons way.  You could argue the Spurs way (obviously that's not a stretch).

Newsflash:  Millsap and Durant aint winning a championship, either.  We can sign Horford and still bring in another max player, I believe, regardless.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Millsap still got his max money per year from the Hawks that the Magic were offering.  The significant difference was he signed for three years instead of the four years the Magic offered.  He did that in hopes of cashing in one more time when (if) the salary cap sky rockets as he can opt out after next season.  So I wouldn't say he took less money to stay in Atlanta when you look at it per year.  And even if you look at the length of the deal, he did that to benefit himself, not neccesarily the Hawks.

I also think that Millsap gets higher raises per year from the Hawks on the first year salary - 7.5% as opposed to 4%.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, bumpyphish1 said:

That's not exactly accurate.  Yes, he took one less year but it was universally accepted that such action would result in less career earnings.  Paul knew that.  He didn't do it b/c he thought he could get another big contract.  That's just BS

No, he is accurate, the prevailing thought was that Millsap signed the 3 year deal with the option to decline his player option in year 3 to take advantage of the expected rising cap and new CBA in 2017.

[bumpyphish1]

Did not know about that player option.  Good call.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bumpyphish1 said:

I don't care about the label-"hometown discount"---he picked us for less.  Maybe Al wants continuity and to play for a winner, too, no?  Like, instead of getting the max from someone like the Nuggets?  He has been with Atlanta even longer than 'Sap.  I don't see why it would make any less sense for Al to take a little less to stay here.

And, if we don't re-sign him, we are fools.  Period.

I think that is very realistic (Al passing on a team like the Nuggets if the difference is small for the dollars).

[pimp]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This.

30 points, 13 rebounds followed by 11 points and 3 rebounds. No consistency whatsoever and he's more likely to have numbers closer to 11/3 over the next 5 games than sniff 30/13

The standard for max contracts has been lowered across the board.

 

I said earlier in the thread, " would anyone be surprised if Al put up  12 pts and 4 rebs next game?" Or the next 5 games?"
Next Game : 13 points 3 rebounds and  got outplayed by Robin Lopez.   smh
Almost spot on prediction .. off by 1 point and rebound

Edited January 4, 2016 by pimp

[bumpyphish1]

20 minutes ago, pimp said:

I said earlier in the thread, " would anyone be surprised if Al put up  12 pts and 4 rebs next game?" Or the next 5 games?"
Next Game : 13 points 3 rebounds and  got outplayed by Robin Lopez.   smh
Almost spot on prediction .. off by 1 point and rebound

It was a shit game by the whole team.  Teague had 9 and 1 until garbage time.  Horf's points came on 5-8 shooting--only starter to shoot 50% much less 60%.  Can't argue with the rebounding.  His numbers are down there this year and I agree he needs to pick it up but deviations from career averages happen for stints of or even entire seasons and they regress to the mean.  Hell, if his numbers are down this year, then maybe we get a better price.

Al also does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet.  Today was a clunker as far as rebounding I grant you that, but I'm not gonna knock a guy who shot 5-8.  Ideally, he is about a 18-8 17-9 type guy.  So, 4-5 points off his season average in points is not anything to decry especially on .625 shooting.  The boards are definitely a little lower than I'd like this season but he is averaging 7.2 per game this season which is the exact per game average he had last year (which are his two lowest averages of his career aside from the 2011-12 season), which happens to be the best regular season the Hawks have had in my life time (franchise history??).  I don't dispute he could do better and be a little more consistent but this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Edited January 4, 2016 by bumpyphish1

[Mdizzle5]

4 hours ago, bumpyphish1 said:

Nobody is saying that Al is a number one on a championship team, bro.  We're either gonna have to add another star or do it the Pistons way.  You could argue the Spurs way (obviously that's not a stretch).

Newsflash:  Millsap and Durant aint winning a championship, either.  We can sign Horford and still bring in another max player, I believe, regardless.

While the Pistons didn't have a star, they still had pieces we don't have. 

As for the Spurs way, I'm tired of this being repeatedly thrown out in relation to the Hawks. We aren't really anything like that team other than the ball movement. The Spurs have so many ways to hurt you. Sure, Timmy D isn't dropping 20 any more but he still does what he needs to. Rebounds, defense, score when needed, etc with consistentcy. Also, he's a future first ballot HOFer. Plus Pop isn't as in love with 3s as Bud is. He doesn't want good shots. He wants great ones. 

We're really more like a worse shooting, non-consistent and less talented version of the Warriors. 

Al would be great on a team that already has a strong first and second option. Unfortunately the Hawks, as of now (and for a good while), have neither. 

[bumpyphish1]

1 hour ago, Mdizzle5 said:

While the Pistons didn't have a star, they still had pieces we don't have. 

As for the Spurs way, I'm tired of this being repeatedly thrown out in relation to the Hawks. We aren't really anything like that team other than the ball movement. The Spurs have so many ways to hurt you. Sure, Timmy D isn't dropping 20 any more but he still does what he needs to. Rebounds, defense, score when needed, etc with consistentcy. Also, he's a future first ballot HOFer. Plus Pop isn't as in love with 3s as Bud is. He doesn't want good shots. He wants great ones. 

We're really more like a worse shooting, non-consistent and less talented version of the Warriors. 

Al would be great on a team that already has a strong first and second option. Unfortunately the Hawks, as of now (and for a good while), have neither. 

No one said we don't need to add more pieces.  Our cap flexibility is as good as nearly any team's in the league.