There is hope

[HawkItus]

Last year we basically had 4 Hawks teams:

 

• Pre-January(about what we have now)
• January(best team I've seen here)
• After Thabo(about what we saw starting this year)
• Playoffs(injured.  Looked like 45 win team)

Now this year we have not seen the January team.  It is not impossible that we can get hot again.  Is it likely no.  But, a March run could really change the perspective here.

Edited February 1, 2016 by HawkItus

[macdaddy]

Last year was more successful than the year before in no small part because we had Thabo relieving DMC and we didn't lose anything.   When we just had one of them it wasn't as good.   Now for some reason we are asking Baze to be DMC and Thabo to continue his last year role rather than the more obvious idea of having Thabo be the main guy and let Baze come off the bench.   So far it's not working.   I'm not saying it's Baze's fault but let's try something new rather than just trying the same thing every night and getting embarrassed.   When's the last time this team came from behind to win a game?   We can't continue to lay eggs in every 1st.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Last year was more successful than the year before in no small part because we had Thabo relieving DMC and we didn't lose anything.   When we just had one of them it wasn't as good.   Now for some reason we are asking Baze to be DMC and Thabo to continue his last year role rather than the more obvious idea of having Thabo be the main guy and let Baze come off the bench.   So far it's not working.   I'm not saying it's Baze's fault but let's try something new rather than just trying the same thing every night and getting embarrassed.   When's the last time this team came from behind to win a game?   We can't continue to lay eggs in every 1st.

If I were Bud I'd be pissed enough to let Thabo and THJ start and bring Korver and Baze off the bench. If it's not working you have to keep trying new things.

 

BTW, THJ is the only Hawk out there with a spring in his step. He's seriously doing great, I'd either try to start him for a game or 2, or at least increase his minutes.

pg-Teague

sg- THJ

sf- Thabo

pf-Sap

c-Horford

[DS17Fanboy]

Yeah, just try him out like that. He has some winner-genes. They need to be tested after being humiliated for quite some time. See how he does.

[AHF]

THJr has been awesome.  PER is all the way up to an 8.0, right behind Kyle Korver's 9.5!

 

I am totally on board starting Thabo.

[Guest]

Just now, AHF said:

THJr has been awesome.  PER is all the way up to an 8.0, right behind Kyle Korver's 9.5!

 

I am totally on board starting Thabo.

Lol...it's ok to jump on the Timmy wagon. Nobody says you have to stick with your Timmy hate lol.

[AHF]

Just now, Spud2Nique said:

Lol...it's ok to jump on the Timmy wagon. Nobody says you have to stick with your Timmy hate lol.

He has continued to suck on the whole in spite of a few decent games.  Sorry.  

We can get excited about the 3-6 game but combine that with the prior 1-4, 0-1, 3-8, 0-1, 3-8, 0-1, 2-5, etc. and you are right back knowing exactly why he is shooting less than 36% on the season.

The problem is that all our wings this year stink except for Thabo and Bazemore.  The rest have been worse than useless.  

Put THJr in perspective:

Tim Hardaway Jr. 2015-16

FG%:  35.7%

3pt% 24.3%

Josh Smith 2015-16

FG%: 36.9%

3pt% 28.2%

He is benefiting from backup quarterback syndrome right now.  Kyle is stinking up the joint so his backup must represent a ray of sunshine and hope even though said backup has been worse than Kyle so far this season (Kyle's TS% is nearly 100 points higher at .555 compared to .469).  As the starter Kyle gets the spotlight on him so his suckiness seems unbearable.  The suckiness of the guy with fewer minutes doesn't seem as bad so jump on the bandwagon of the guy whose specialty is shooting and who is putting up 24% from 3pt range and almost 36% from the floor.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He has continued to suck on the whole in spite of a few decent games.  Sorry.  

We can get excited about the 3-6 game but combine that with the prior 1-4, 0-1, 3-8, 0-1, 3-8, 0-1, 2-5, etc. and you are right back knowing exactly why he is shooting less than 36% on the season.

The problem is that all our wings this year stink except for Thabo and Bazemore.  The rest have been worse than useless.  

Put THJr in perspective:

Tim Hardaway Jr. 2015-16

FG%:  35.7%

3pt% 24.3%

Josh Smith 2015-16

FG%: 36.9%

3pt% 28.2%

He is benefiting from backup quarterback syndrome right now.  Kyle is stinking up the joint so his backup must represent a ray of sunshine and hope even though said backup has been worse than Kyle so far this season (Kyle's TS% is nearly 100 points higher at .555 compared to .469).  As the starter Kyle gets the spotlight on him so his suckiness seems unbearable.  The suckiness of the guy with fewer minutes doesn't seem as bad so jump on the bandwagon of the guy whose specialty is shooting and who is putting up 24% from 3pt range and almost 36% from the floor.  

So experiment and start Timmy for a few games and see if those numbers change in any way. The numbers you presented on Timmy look really bad, but when you watch him on the court he seems to know what he is doing on offense and defense. Not to mention he seems energetic compared to anyone else.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

So experiment and start Timmy for a few games and see if those numbers change in any way. The numbers you presented on Timmy look really bad, but when you watch him on the court he seems to know what he is doing on offense and defense. Not to mention he seems energetic compared to anyone else.

Exactly.  Backup QB syndrome.

"He has been really bad, but maybe if we turn him from the backup to a starter he will be much better!  He looks so good on that bench that I can totally picture him looking good as a starter just like Johnny Manziel..."

In all seriousness, Korver is definitely way down this year post-surgery.  I would like better alternatives than THJr, Patterson and Holiday, but I think we have to give one or more of them more minutes and cut Kyle's minutes back.  I think it speaks to Bud's lack of confidence in those three that Kyle is still playing so many minutes.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Exactly.  Backup QB syndrome.

"He has been really bad, but maybe if we turn him from the backup to a starter he will be much better!  He looks so good on that bench that I can totally picture him looking good as a starter just like Johnny Manziel..."

 

You say Manziel, I say we have a Bobby Hebert situation here. Start him and watch him blossom.

 

ps Bobby Hebert, try sayin it. It's a fun little name...H-E-......B-E-R-T pronounced (Aye Bear).

 

pps Not to be confused with NY columnist Bob Herbert (with an R)....

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

You say Manziel, I say we have a Bobby Hebert situation here. Start him and watch him blossom.

 

Wasn't he 7-18 in two seasons as a starter with the Falcons with the team at 16-16 in the seasons in between?  

QB rating right on par with his career rating?

Maybe you are a Saints guy but as a Falcons fan I don't gush about Herbert.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Wasn't he 7-18 in two seasons as a starter with the Falcons with the team at 16-16 in the seasons in between?  

QB rating right on par with his career rating?

Maybe you are a Saints guy but as a Falcons fan I don't gush about Herbert.

Lol....ya I don't think he was great with the Falcons but I always thought he had more "lift" for the team than Jeff George. As a Saint, I think he was pretty good in the early 90's, not completely sure though but I just remember him being underrated and dangerous. I was still a Lions guy back then. 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Lol....ya I don't think he was great with the Falcons but I always thought he had more "lift" for the team than Jeff George. As a Saint, I think he was pretty good in the early 90's, not completely sure though but I just remember him being underrated and dangerous. I was still a Lions guy back then. 

He was solid for the Saints.  Pretty consistent performer (by QB rating) over his career.  I also hated George.  He was a poor man's Matthew Stafford (and that isn't a good thing).

[Vol4ever]

Sorry but this team is going nowhere.  Only Sap is giving it his best, Horford is worrying about an injury and a contract.   Micheal Jordan said the difference between no so good players and starts is mental.   Jeff has all the talent in the world but is not mentally tough.   Baze is totally out of control and Thabo is a bench player at best.   Korver has lost any quickness he once had.  

We are just down talent wise and the league knows we dont rebound and we fire 3s at will.   This is the old Doug Moe offense for those who have been around for a while.  

I love Sap, you can have the rest of the team.

 

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Sorry but this team is going nowhere.  Only Sap is giving it his best, Horford is worrying about an injury and a contract.   Micheal Jordan said the difference between no so good players and starts is mental.   Jeff has all the talent in the world but is not mentally tough.   Baze is totally out of control and Thabo is a bench player at best.   Korver has lost any quickness he once had.  

We are just down talent wise and the league knows we dont rebound and we fire 3s at will.   This is the old Doug Moe offense for those who have been around for a while.  

I love Sap, you can have the rest of the team.

It's so sad to watch Sap giving his all them his frountcourt counterpart giving those pitty-pat ineffective screens.  Sheesh.

You mentioned another interesting point w.r.t. BazeLock.  Someone said in chat (at which point I roundly ridiculed them) that he's hitting a bit of a rookie wall.  The chatster that said that may be onto something (despite my incessant razzing).  This is the first year he's played starter's minutes so him being increasingly outta control is probably a manifestation of hitting that wall.

Gone are those solid performances, in are the wildly inconsistent games we were able to recover from last year because we had a legit starter at the 3.  Now that he's 'the guy' we're in trubble unless we find someone to push him back to the bench.

[HawkItus]

I still say our biggest hurdle was the schedule the NBA handed us to start out.  I know I'm in the minority, but let me see Bud and the crew after the all star break.  Most of these guys played the most games they ever played last season.  We have 1 new starter and 2 new guys to the regular bench rotation.  Baking a cake takes time.  In my opinion these guys and Bud have earned patience. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

   We can't continue to lay eggs in every 1st.

This - our starting unit has put us in holes for too many games.

[RedDawg#8]

It may just be me but ever since Bud decided to settle on this current rotation of players it seems we have been the most inconsistent. If I were Patterson and Holiday I'd be pissed considering what the guys in front of them are doing. Patterson wasn't that much worse than Kyle or THJ to justify being buried on the bench. We have enough pieces to shake things up a bit if for anything just to give our guys some rest if we are so tired. I'm surprised Kyle hasn't been given more nights off considering our depth at his position and his declining performances. What could it hurt. Muscala started games for us last year and now he's not even good enough to put in games yet we have to watch Tiago get blocked on every layup attempt? 

I get that we HAD to settle on a rotation at some point but we have more than the 10 guys who have been stinking up the joint on our roster. We have fresh legs and athleticism that could give us a spark why not try them out. It's not like these guys hurt us anymore than the current rotation is hurting us now. Especially since we are going to watch the trade deadline pass and not make any moves.

Edited February 1, 2016 by RedDawg#8

[NiqueDaLegend]

This team needs to retool. Simple as that last year was obviously a fluke and we as fans were fooled