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Atlanta Hawks Attendance

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And Vivlamore wrote more about this today:

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Commentary: Why the Hawks’ attendance figures are disingenuous 19
2:22 p.m. April 26 by Chris Vivlamore / The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’ve been hard on the Hawks’ organization for its announced attendance figures all season long.

Maybe it’s time I explain.
The Hawks are back home tonight to face the Celtics in Game 5 of their Eastern Conference first-round playoff series, which is tied 2-2. The Celtics had an advantage in Games 3 and 4 at home in TD Garden. That is not to say the crowd in Atlanta for Games 1 and 2 was not loud and supportive. It simply wasn’t as loud. That’s a fact.

My issue with the Hawks’ announced attendance is that the numbers are manipulated and disingenuous. I get a lot of comments on Twitter when I point out the announced attendance figure accompanied by — more often than not — a snide remark. The comments fall into three categories: Some do find them humorous (OK, not that many); some think I’m doing a disservice to the team and have an agenda to see the franchise moved from Atlanta. (That’s not going to happen); some think the inflated attendance figures bother me. (Trust me, they don’t).
First let me point out that I am well aware that the NBA allows the attendance figure to be tickets distributed and not tickets sold. There is a big difference. Believe me.
Let’s take the example of Game 2 of this series. Here are the attendance figures provided to me by a source inside the organization.
Announced attendance: 18,972 (recorded as a sellout)

Tickets sold: 16,358
Complimentary tickets: 2,614
Actual attendance: 14,256
So the number of fans in the building last week, known as the drop, was 4,716 less than the announced figure. That’s substantial.
There are some other interesting things to note in the numbers. The number of tickets sold was more than the drop, meaning 2,102 people who paid for tickets did not attend the game.
Where the announced attendance figure gets manipulated is the complimentary tickets. Here’s what is worth noting about that number. For both Games 1 and 2 and again for Game 5, the 300-plus employees of the Hawks were given, yes given, six free tickets. Two of those tickets were in the lower bowl. In other words, good seats. In addition, some ticket comps never left the building. I’ll use one department as an example (I won’t get specific to protect those who offered me the insight). It was given a number of tickets (less than 100) to distribute to those non full-time employees who work in the department. Only about 60 percent were given away. That leaves 40 percent that were never given away but counted toward the attendance. Trust me from my days covering the Thrashers, I witnessed many a time when staff employees had stacks of tickets in their pocket to give away.
As of yesterday, there were 2,300 tickets unsold for Game 5. Radio appearances were made by those within the organization to encourage fans to buy tickets to the game and create a similar home-court advantage as that of the Celtics.
The Celtics announced a sellout crowd of 18,624 for both games in Boston. A difference of nearly 4,400 fans makes a difference.
The Hawks are not the only team to manipulate the numbers. I get it. There are many games I cover where the announced attendance is nowhere near the actual attendance. The Heat keep announcing sellouts and they play to games with a less than full upper bowl. There are also teams like the Thunder, Bulls, Warriors and Raptors (just a few) who routinely play to sellout crowds no matter the team record.
The Hawks finished 22nd in the NBA in attendance with an announced average of 16,832 in their 41 home games. They announced 14 regular-season sellouts. One, maybe the last game in Atlanta of Kobe Bryant, might have been close to an actual sellout.
Something else worth noting is that the Hawks routinely change the number of fans that constitutes a sellout. A lot depends, I suppose, on whether they open the 400 level or not. Here are the announced attendance figures for the last four sellouts of the regular season: 18,123, 19,333, 18,087 and 19,427.
Also, it’s really easy to see the empty seats when you have a T-shirt give-away.
In closing, let me reiterate that I’m not making disparaging comments about the crowds at Philips Arena. There are lots of points that can be debated on the subject of Atlanta and its fans. It’s also not about the cost of tickets. We can save all that for another day. The playoff crowds have been loud and supportive. All I’m pointing out is the blatant manipulation of the numbers. I get the marketing to create buzz and demand.
So now when you see my tweets about the number of people that must be in line for the bathroom or to get a hot dog, you’ll know where I’m coming from. Trust me, those empty seats are not all occupied by fans who left for Club Red.

http://m.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/commentary-why-the-hawks-attendance-figures-are-di/nrCFD/

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lethalweapon3 Grand Master

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Aside: this note's more about eyeballs than fannies, but...

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/04/25/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

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While the stories were strong in Golden State, Cleveland and San Antonio, such was not the case leaguewide. In fact, 17 of the 27 teams measured saw year-over-year declines in their local ratings this season.

The Atlanta Hawks registered the league’s biggest decrease, despite making another playoff run. Hawks games on FS Southeast averaged a 1.2 rating, down 45 percent from last year — though that average is on par with Hawks ratings in recent years. Before their 2.18 average for 2014-15, the Hawks’ average rating in the six seasons prior ranged between a 0.97 and a 1.4.

Probably not a big cause for alarm, just the TV-market correction commensurate with the jump in wins last season.

~lw3

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On 4/27/2016 at 11:55 AM, lethalweapon3 said:

Aside: this note's more about eyeballs than fannies, but...

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/04/25/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

Probably not a big cause for alarm, just the TV-market correction commensurate with the jump in wins last season.

~lw3

Should have started your own thread with this, it would have gotten more replies...

I wish that dang article would have the full listing of teams though. That's cool data to look at.

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Fascinating discussion going on elsewhere in the internet where a Hawks employee has commented on Hawks ticket policy: https://www.reddit.com/r/AtlantaHawks/comments/4hoj5m/why_are_hawks_tickets_so_damn_expensive/

Here's a relevant flow of dialogue starting with the original post:

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Why are hawks tickets so damn expensive?question (self.AtlantaHawks)

submitted  by ClentRutherford69

Most of the games arent even close to sold out, they give tickets away like candy to philips employees, and they try to unload cheap seats on hawks pass, and yet the tickets from stubhub are incredibly expensive. The tickets for this series are actually more expensive by about 30/40 dollars in philips than in cleveland, despite them being the 1 seed and having a dude named lebron play there. What the f***?

Then the employee:

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[–]ATL4Life 7 points  

It's not secret I work for the Hawks so I'll give you a look into why we price our tickets.

For the first round it was no secret that each employee got comp tickets because we needed to fill the arena. We also set ticket prices extremely low and I posted a link on here for discounted tickets. We love filling the arena with fans and being from Atlanta myself, I want everyone in there to be rooting for the Hawks.

Some may call is price gouging, but it's simple supply and demand. More people want to go see Cleveland and are willing to pay a higher dollar. That's just how the nba is.

Every company in the United States offers some sort of loyalty program and the Hawks do the same. It's going to ALWAYS be more expensive to do one off purchases to the biggest games. But if you're serious about getting REALLY cheap tickets, you need to make a commitment to more games.

People can get mad that we raised prices for those who sold too much but it's actually done so to benefit those who don't have season tickets. Here's how it works - those who sell their tickets to amount of games your friend did KILL your opportunity to get tickets. They undercut us for all the games no one cares about and jack their prices up for the big games. Everyone knows you can get a dirt cheap ticket to a Tuesday night Suns game but judging by the fact that nobody posted this last series when we had cheap tickets, you all care about Cleveland just as much as next guy.

If you really want cheap tickets - Get season tickets. Split them with people on here. You can add on tickets for games all parties want to go to, access to events year round, and guess what, DIRT CHEAP Playoff tickets. Get creative and do some research. Don't get mad when you want to go the biggest games of the season and the prices are too high.

I can tell you if we do get tickets for the Cleveland games, they won't be in the lower bowl and we may get 2 total. Friday's game is close to sold out and Sunday will soon follow.

Feel free to hit me up with any questions or issues.

Tyler.agar@hawks.com 404-878-3847

Go Hawks!! Beat the Cavs!!

Followed by a thoughtful and concerned response (maybe the guy is being a d*ck, hard to tell on that site):

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[–]alphatangolima 3 points  

Question for you....

The Hawks pass put us in suite D17 for game 1 of the first round. Why?

Every single suite on the D level was nearly empty and I'd say the ones in them were Hawks pass people. I saw plenty of empty seats in the upper level behind the goals with shirts still on the seat.

I passed on game 2 but checked the upgrades before the game and they wanted $120 to upgrade to lower level? What is the logic?

As for you saying they needed to fill up the stadium so they comped out tickets? Why didn't they just lower the ticket prices?

The Hawks ranked 22nd in attendance this year so what are they doing to correct that? That seems like the demand is nowhere near the supply. I personally think the problem is pricing. It's not just the tickets, everything is expensive. I have Falcons tickets and every single thing at Phillips is more than at the dome. I think I paid $10 for a beer in round one. The parking decks around the arena were charging $25-30 to park.

I think they need a complete overhaul. When Blank bought the team, he made season tickets dirt cheap. They offered upper end zones for $250. Very few people can/will go to 41 games a year so when a decent seat is $40-60, they aren't going to shell out $2k per seat.

The Hawks have ridiculously overpriced lower bowl seating and dirt cheap nose bleeds. $30 to sit in the 300s and $200 to sit anywhere near the court.

And the response from the Hawks ticket salesman:

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[–]ATL4Life 1 point  

So are you saying the $15 you paid for Hawks Pass was too expensive? Or are you saying seats in a suite wasn't good enough for a playoff game?

People shell out 2k a seat every day. They often shell out way more. Last year we were #1 in new ticket sales in the NBA. A lot of that was based on team performance, but our tickets were also dirt cheap. I think we can all agree the price should match the product and the Hawks are a great product.

Again, the Hawks are a business just like everyone else. You get for what you pay for. We don't owe anyone discounted seats near the court. If you want top tier seats, be ready to spend top dollar because in a top 5 NBA market, somebody will if you don't. in 2013, the Falcons had a great playoff run. I didn't want to miss so I shelled out whatever it took to get in the building. It's tougher to compare when the Falcons aren't a perennial playoff team so I can't blame you for forgetting how expensive those tickets were.

I don't know a ton about Falcons Season tickets but do know that when Arthur bought the team in 2001, they hadn't made the playoffs the previous 8 years. I'm sure you'd be surprised at the prices for Hawks tickets in 2001. Even 2011. But if you have season tickets, you clearly understand the benefits of buying them in bulk and ahead of time. You also understand how nice it is to pay a PSL in the new stadium.

Parking for anyone with even a partial plan is $10. Beer is priced what it's priced. People seem to be buying plenty of it.

If you had purchased last year, before the playoffs, you could have gotten great seats, with Parking and a food credit included, for $30 a game. But, just like every other business, if you're late to the party, you're going to pay more. The earlier you sign up, the more your rewarded.

At the end of the day, its the Cavs. If you want to come, you'll have to pay more than a first round series against a 5 seed Celtics team. The games will be sold out and they will be fun. If you want to go and save money, feel free to give me a call, or you can continue to wait last minute for the biggest games and take your chances.

 

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One thing to notice in the whole thread is that people are complaining that the Hawks are raising ticket prices on certain season ticket holders. These are mainly season ticket holders who sold "too many" of their seats on Stubhub throughout the year. OK, interesting policy so that they ensure they can get True Fans in the game except one poster points out:

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"Crazy. Reselling tickets was part of the sales pitch the hawks telemarketers tried to give me last year."

.....that is pretty shitty business practice.

I've got to say, it's cool to see a Hawks employee respond and he does give nice insight to the process of attempting to set prices and filling the arena. Outside of that....his response is flimsy in some parts, flat out wrong in others, and has me shaking my head as I read it because some parts simply don't follow. Granted, there's probably a fair amount of things out of his control (ex. setting beer prices) that he's just trying to deflect attention from that towards what he's selling: Hawks tix:

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If you really want cheap tickets - Get season tickets. Split them with people on here. You can add on tickets for games all parties want to go to, access to events year round, and guess what, DIRT CHEAP Playoff tickets.

Well ya see that might not exactly be the best option for everyone or exactly what people are looking for, but I do understand that's what you're selling us so OK.

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There was also a comment in there about 2001 ticket prices for Atlanta and oh yeah I've talked about that elsewhere

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/3/3/11012690/atlanta-hawks-forbes-valuation

fci_2015.0.png

How'd attendance respond?

bbattend_2015.0.png

Oooohhh. And that was right around Philips opening (see waffle charts at the beginning). What about their bottom line?

revenues_2015.0.png

So not much change. Wouldn't you rather have more fans though? Kinda odd to raise price, turning them away, but keeping a similar revenue flow.

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macdaddy Grand Master

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I'm cheap as hell and of course want dirt cheap tix.  I complain about ticket prices sometimes but the truth is whatever formula they can use to fill the arena and make the most money i'm down with.  

Also, I wish C-viv did as much research into the actual basketball team as he does attendance figures.  

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