History repeats itself. Especially with Hawks fans.

[Diesel]

As a Hawks historian of sorts, I remember a time ago.   The Hawks were a perineal playoff team.  We had a shortened season where we made it to the second round of the playoffs by beating Grant Hill and Detroit.  We were beaten By Latrell Spreewell, Patrick Ewing, and the Knicks.

In Knee Jerk fashion.. Atlanta Fans called for the disassembling of the team.

At the time we had Mookie, Smitty, Grant Long, Henderson,, Deke.  I think we had Ty Corbin and Laettner but don't quote those.   Well, what happened is that Babcock started trading.

He traded Mookie for a draft pick from Golden State which became Jet Terry.

He traded Smitty for JR. Rider and Jim Jackson.

The thinking was that we were getting older and we were not moving forward... Blasé Blasé Blasé Blasé.

Our rebuild took us out of the playoffs  and 4 coaches later ....8 years.

We watched Deke make it to the finals.

We watched Smitty win a ring.

We watched Babcock make a guarantee to the fans that the Hawks would make the playoffs...  And Fail.

What did we learn???

Nothing. Obviously.   Not if we want to trade away Teague and Millsap.

Get younger just because we can doesn't translate to getting better my friends.

 

Tomorrow we will review the Dominique Trade...  Another trade of convenience because we didn't want to "watch our stars get old" or we didn't want to be in a contract negotiation with Nique.

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

We had a true center then and we have two starting PG's currently. Why not trade Teague if we can fit a position of need. Schröder is our starter for the future. Not really the same situation... Time to move on from Teague.

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[Diesel]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

We had a true center then and we have two starting PG's currently. Why not trade Teague if we can fit a position of need. Schröder is our starter for the future. Not really the same situation... Time to move on from Teague.

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Position of need.  You mean... Bench C.  The same position that Splitter and Humph and possibly Edy could play??

Think about it..  for all these brilliant fans saying that we're developing Noel.  How?  IF Horf is signed for the next 5 years... when exactly does Noel become a starter??

This isn't Montae Ellis for Andrew Bogut.  This is Montae Ellis for Festus.  Doesn't make much sense.

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Noel does fit our offensive scheme very well. And he's a shot blocker. Gives us that 3rd big that Supes was posting about. Noel is an excellent 3pt shooter but also us an interior presence. I love the trade personally cause I don't see Teague ever developing a consistent 3pt shot and I believe he's plateaued in Atlanta. Bring on the Schröder era if we can improve elsewhere and make Hinny the backup PG. Plus I love Covington and Stauskas for the bench. Stauskas could be a dual threat with Korver on the floor. Barrage of legit 3pt shooting.

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[skimaskway23]

Your obsessed. You mad about something that hasn't happened yet. You aren't smarter than our front office pal

[Guest]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

 

Noel does fit our offensive scheme very well. And he's a shot blocker. Gives us that 3rd big that Supes was posting about. Noel is an excellent 3pt shooter but also us an interior presence. I love the trade personally cause I don't see Teague ever developing a consistent 3pt shot and I believe he's plateaued in Atlanta. Bring on the Schröder era if we can improve elsewhere and make Hinny the backup PG. Plus I love Covington and Stauskas for the bench. Stauskas could be a dual threat with Korver on the floor. Barrage of legit 3pt shooting.

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Ok, now I'm convinced you have never seen Noel play. I'm not sure if he has shot a 3 pointer in his life...lol

[Hawkmoor]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Position of need.  You mean... Bench C.  The same position that Splitter and Humph and possibly Edy could play??

Think about it..  for all these brilliant fans saying that we're developing Noel.  How?  IF Horf is signed for the next 5 years... when exactly does Noel become a starter??

This isn't Montae Ellis for Andrew Bogut.  This is Montae Ellis for Festus.  Doesn't make much sense.

 

Noel IS the piece that Sap needs beside him in the paint. Im tired of seeing Sap battle in the paint by himself because Horford is out in 3 point land. Noel, by default, would force Bud to adjust his plays to benefit Noel's rebounding ability. Sap can drive to the rim now and not worry about having to get the put back all by himself because Noel will clean it up.  

The problem isnt Noel fitting in the scheme, the problem is can they keep Horford and possibly play Sap at 3 for a limited amount of minutes per game. For all the people who keep saying that small forwards would blow by Sap, who cares when you got Noel in the paint to clean THAT up.  Man, the Hawks would have OPTIONS if they can keep Horford AND do this deal to get Noel.  Sap wouldnt get big minutes at the 3 if the Hawks were to acquire Covington, he could just rotate between both positions. Man, the Hawks would be DEEP upfront and cause all kinds of problems.

Right now, teams dont scheme for the Hawks interior game on offense or their backside offensive rebounding. Noel changes all that, which will open up the Hawks jumpers even more.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Trout7]

17 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

We had a true center then and we have two starting PG's currently. Why not trade Teague if we can fit a position of need. Schröder is our starter for the future. Not really the same situation... Time to move on from Teague.

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I bet whatever we get for Teague will suck.  Atlanta sports team management never, ever make smart deals.  We never add pieces like the smart teams do, we just subtract and think what were gonna add back is going to be some kind of magic.  The fans think the same way here.  I see no reason to move on from Teague, he is only 27.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

 

I love the trade personally cause I don't see Teague ever developing a consistent 3pt shot and I believe he's plateaued in Atlanta. Bring on the Schröder era if we can improve elsewhere and make Hinny the backup PG.

Damn PSSSHHRRR87... How misinformed are you??

Let's school you for a moment.

2016.  Teague ...  3pters Made 110.  3pters attempted 275.  3pt%  = 40%

2016  Schröder.. 3pters Made 77.  3pters attempted 239.  3pt% = 32.2%

This is your argument for why we need to trade Teague and start the Schröder era??   Good Luck (Liam Neeson voice).

 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, skimaskway23 said:

Your obsessed. You mad about something that hasn't happened yet. You aren't smarter than our front office pal

I actually don't think that what you all are praising is the actual trade.   But that's another story.  I'm talking about the History of the Hawks to make dumb trades repeats.

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Noel IS the piece that Sap needs beside him in the paint. Im tired of seeing Sap battle in the paint by himself because Horford is out in 3 point land. Noel, by default, would force Bud to adjust his plays to benefit Noel's rebounding ability. Sap can drive to the rim now and not worry about having to get the put back all by himself because Noel will clean it up.  

The problem isnt Noel fitting in the scheme, the problem is can they keep Horford and possibly play Sap at 3 for a limited amount of minutes per game. For all the people who keep saying that small forwards would blow by Sap, who cares when you got Noel in the paint to clean THAT up.  Man, the Hawks would have OPTIONS if they can keep Horford AND do this deal to get Noel.  Sap wouldnt get big minutes at the 3 if the Hawks were to acquire Covington, he could just rotate between both positions. Man, the Hawks would be DEEP upfront and cause all kinds of problems.

Right now, teams dont scheme for the Hawks interior game on offense or their backside offensive rebounding. Noel changes all that, which will open up the Hawks jumpers even more.

That's the problem .   Sap is not a 3.   Sap has all kind of advantages playing Stretch 4.   The other thing is that Horford is not a 4.  Horford has a speed advantage playing 5.   As a stretch 4, Horford Sucks.   Therefore, we're giving up a starting PG, Allstar quality for a Bench player.

Like I said before... Bring up Edy if that's what you want.   However, don't weaken a position of strength to add a bench player.

So no, there will be very little Noel, Horford, Sap lineups.   Like many believe here...  Noel will be used as 6th man for the frontcourt.

I wouldn't be upset with the move if we had a second move that would get us an allstar quality Sf and not give up Sap.   i.e. Let Horford walk or Use Horford in a SNT.

I agree with you.. Sap + Noel will be a strong defensive pairing.   However, we haven't addressed our Sf yet.. And it's more likely that we're taking back only Stauskis.

 

[skimaskway23]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I actually don't think that what you all are praising is the actual trade.   But that's another story.  I'm talking about the History of the Hawks to make dumb trades repeats.

 

In a league lacking parody, you're expectations are paramount. Barring an acquisition of a hall of famer,  not even kd, nothing can appease your appetite. Being realistic, would do you great good. What this team has done and accomplished is better than we would have ever thought 2 years ago.

 

This team is trending upwards and you need to appreciate the fact that we aren't a team like phoenix or philly

Edited June 4, 2016 by skimaskway23

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

In a league lacking parody, you're expectations are paramount. Barring an acquisition of a hall of famer,  not even kd, nothing can appease your appetite. Being realistic, would do you great good. What this team has done and accomplished is better than we would have ever thought 2 years ago.

 

This team is trending upwards and you need to appreciate the fact that we aren't a team like phoenix or philly

Your point is moving but you must not be talking to me.  I agree... What the team has done is great.   However, NOW is the time to be careful on how you proceed.   You're talking trading a starter who is still young and still has game left for a BU.  What championship team does that?

Why do you think the team is trending upwards? 

You think the team is trending upwards because of the moves of Budcox??

Let's see.. How many first rounders have they squandered?  The picks that are doing so great are guys that Ferry picked.   How has our upward trend gone since Ferry left?

That's another story.

I'm just saying, now is the time for caution and thinking things through.

If we get Hustled by Philly... don't be ashamed to be a Hawks fan.

 

[skimaskway23]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Your point is moving but you must not be talking to me.  I agree... What the team has done is great.   However, NOW is the time to be careful on how you proceed.   You're talking trading a starter who is still young and still has game left for a BU.  What championship team does that?

Why do you think the team is trending upwards? 

You think the team is trending upwards because of the moves of Budcox??

Let's see.. How many first rounders have they squandered?  The picks that are doing so great are guys that Ferry picked.   How has our upward trend gone since Ferry left?

That's another story.

I'm just saying, now is the time for caution and thinking things through.

If we get Hustled by Philly... don't be ashamed to be a Hawks fan.

 

You can't be the dense in real life, I hope.

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

You can't be the dense in real life, I hope.

More namecalling.  Do you think anybody comes on this board for that??  IF you can't piece together a rational argument then Maybe Namecalling is all you have.  Skim, I thought that you had intelligent points to make... obviously  you disappointed me.  Maybe I'm expecting too much from you?  So if name calling is all you have in the light of me talking about basketball.. then keep it up.  It really makes you look....  Hmmm?  How does it make you look?

 

[skimaskway23]

48 minutes ago, Diesel said:

More namecalling.  Do you think anybody comes on this board for that??  IF you can't piece together a rational argument then Maybe Namecalling is all you have.  Skim, I thought that you had intelligent points to make... obviously  you disappointed me.  Maybe I'm expecting too much from you?  So if name calling is all you have in the light of me talking about basketball.. then keep it up.  It really makes you look....  Hmmm?  How does it make you look?

 

I'm just stating facts. You ignore the point of every post and repeat your same old tired rhetoric all over this forum. Your ideal scenario of bringing in Dwight is so shortsighted and uninformed. 

 

You're anti Dennis, pro Teague, anti horford, pro Millsap. ...we get it. Fortunately for us, the organization doesn't see it the same way. 

[Hawkmoor]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Your point is moving but you must not be talking to me.  I agree... What the team has done is great.   However, NOW is the time to be careful on how you proceed.   You're talking trading a starter who is still young and still has game left for a BU.  What championship team does that?

Why do you think the team is trending upwards? 

You think the team is trending upwards because of the moves of Budcox??

Let's see.. How many first rounders have they squandered?  The picks that are doing so great are guys that Ferry picked.   How has our upward trend gone since Ferry left?

That's another story.

I'm just saying, now is the time for caution and thinking things through.

If we get Hustled by Philly... don't be ashamed to be a Hawks fan.

 

Hardly nobody has been more critical of the Hawks on the board than i have, and even i dont have a problem with this.  If getting swept by Cleveland TWICE hasnt made the Hawks realize that a frontcourt of Sap/Horford and a backcourt of Dennis/Schröder cant get it done against them, then nothing else will.  The Hawks are at a point where they gonna lose fans MAJOR and take a step back on the court if they dont break up the current starting lineup.  

Moving Teague, and letting Horford walk, if it gets to that, IS the move the Hawks need to make.  Durant isnt walking thru that door. Melo isnt ( and im glad of that), Howard isnt, Chris Paul isnt, NOBODY is walking thru that door, so the Hawks HAVE to use their assets, to gain MORE assets.  If they can get two, three players from Philly for Teague, then so be it.  If they can sign and trade Horford, keep him or just let him walk, good.  They got OPTIONS if they sign Noel.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Hardly nobody has been more critical of the Hawks on the board than i have, and even i dont have a problem with this.  If getting swept by Cleveland TWICE hasnt made the Hawks realize that a frontcourt of Sap/Horford and a backcourt of Dennis/Schröder cant get it done against them, then nothing else will.  The Hawks are at a point where they gonna lose fans MAJOR and take a step back on the court if they dont break up the current starting lineup.  

Moving Teague, and letting Horford walk, if it gets to that, IS the move the Hawks need to make.  Durant isnt walking thru that door. Melo isnt ( and im glad of that), Howard isnt, Chris Paul isnt, NOBODY is walking thru that door, so the Hawks HAVE to use their assets, to gain MORE assets.  If they can get two, three players from Philly for Teague, then so be it.  If they can sign and trade Horford, keep him or just let him walk, good.  They got OPTIONS if they sign Noel.

 

You have never heard me say that I didn't like the deal especially if it involves Convington.  What I said is I don't see the good in trading Teague for a BU.  Meaning, let's look for a good Sign and Trade of Horf that can bring us back some allstar talent.   Or let Horf Walk and use the money to get us Allstar talent.   But to bring Noel in as a BU for the next 3 to 4 years is really not much different than having Splitter and Edy playing BU.

 

[Hawkmoor]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You have never heard me say that I didn't like the deal especially if it involves Convington.  What I said is I don't see the good in trading Teague for a BU.  Meaning, let's look for a good Sign and Trade of Horf that can bring us back some allstar talent.   Or let Horf Walk and use the money to get us Allstar talent.   But to bring Noel in as a BU for the next 3 to 4 years is really not much different than having Splitter and Edy playing BU.

 

You are putting too much value in Horford. Horford IS THE REASON that the Hawks have no paint game.  It wouldnt bother me one bit if he just straight up left the Hawks and Noel had to start at the 5.

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

You are putting too much value in Horford. Horford IS THE REASON that the Hawks have no paint game.  It wouldnt bother me one bit if he just straight up left the Hawks and Noel had to start at the 5.

Then we're in agreement. 

If the Celts want him... Let them have him.   But let's make sure that we have somebody targeted that will finally help us...  Preferably at the SF position.  If Houston wants him... Hell, I would SNT him to Houston for Ariza.  And use the rest of the money to try to get better at the PG position.  Let's get Baze and Jeremy Lin.   But don't bring in Noel just to be a BU.