Moe Harkless

[gurpilo]

You know this guy is only 23 right? Already better than Scott, Muscala and Hardaway, better potential than Thabo and about the same as Bembry and Prince.

[Peoriabird]

Moe Harkless shot 17.9% from 3 in 14-15 and 27.9% from 3 in 15-16.  He shoots 62% from the free throw line.  His offense alone makes him virtually unusable.  What does this guy do well again?

[sturt]

Scott is more valuable to us b/c of the offense he is capable of providing that Harkless at this stage is not. Thabo is more valuable for the same reason. Contenders can't shed players like Scott and Thabo and expect to continue to be contenders.

Hardaway and Harkless are virtual equals in terms of overall production, with THjr one  year older, but I'd still prefer Hardaway b/c (a) he's actually taken over games offensively before and seems capable of becoming a viable SG in this league, and (b) his defense did, in fact, seem to improve so markedly by the time last season ended.

I'm one of those who see this as Moose' tipping point year, others thought last  year was that... but because of the age difference (two years) and the likelihood that Harkless' ceiling is higher, as laid out in my most recent post, I'd be inclined to go after Moe over Moose if the opportunity worked out to do that.

As for the potential being equal to that of Bembry and Prince, I'll grant that could possibly be true. But having said that, my perception is no GM would deal anything higher than a #20-something draft pick for Harkless.

I do like that Moe's shown himself capable of hitting 3's at a 38% clip, but he's obviously got to rediscover whatever magic he's lost in that way. And he thrived in the POR offense, so there's some good upside trajectory there. Defensively, he's got a lot going for him, but even there, he's not put it all together yet. Buy low, sell high, tho, right?

 

[gurpilo]

When given the minutes he has shot above 0,333 % from 3, he has the potential to be a decent 3 pt shooter, agreed FT is an issue, rest of his game is fine and only 23 years old, help me to understand what was so important about Scott and Thabo on playoffs? They were a non factor at best, this guy was key to win a series to  Clippers, that will be more than those 2 can say ever

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

Main reason I want him here is so DJ Foster can play some "Mo Money Mo Problems" after every made 3 by him...

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

, help me to understand what was so important about Scott and Thabo on playoffs?

Mike Scott shot 62% from the field, 50% from 3, 87.5% from FT line, 3.2 rebounds per game in 16 minutes

Thabo Shot 48% from the field, 36% from 3, 4.7 rebounds per game, 1 steal per game in 20 minutes per game. and was our best wing defender.

 

What did Moe Harkless do?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, gurpilo said:

When given the minutes he has shot above 0,333 % from 3, he has the potential to be a decent 3 pt shooter, agreed FT is an issue, rest of his game is fine and only 23 years old, help me to understand what was so important about Scott and Thabo on playoffs? They were a non factor at best, this guy was key to win a series to  Clippers, that will be more than those 2 can say ever

Wait a minute now ... Flake and CP2 getting hurt was "key" to POR winning that series.  Harkless was aiight but with them 2 healthy we're all saying "Mo who?"

[Plastic Man]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

  Harkless was aiight but with them 2 healthy we're all saying "Mo who?"

Maybe those who strictly read stats and have all the answers.

[skimaskway23]

I really like moe Harkness but we have to consolidate some of our players and make room before we can even think about adding players. That being said, there is a ton of potential left in that kid.

[sturt]

On 7/23/2016 at 10:02 PM, sturt said:

As things currently are, I've been one to think that Budcox is prepared to go to war with this roster, minus either Scott or Moose, depending on how Scott's legal trouble evolves before the start of the season--Scott being Plan A, and Moose being Plan B. Therefore, I've been working with these observations...

- Total salary against the cap (ie, excluding salaries of Delaney and Jack, signed w/ exceptions) of the 15-man assuming Scott plays for us and excluding the unguaranteed portion of Moose's contract is $94,257,115,

- Total salary against the cap of the 15-man assuming Moose plays for us and excluding Scott is $91,446,006.

(source: Basketball Insiders and also Yahoo which indicates Moose' guaranteed portion of his salary to be $493,471)

Salary cap is $94,143,000.

So, either there is some discrepancy b/t the salaries as they've been reported vs. as what they actually are, or another move of some kind would have to occur to get under the cap. I'm inclined to assume that it's the former since only about $100,000 separates those two numbers.

As said above, personally, I'm persuaded if Scott is able to play, that's the strong preference given his production, and all the more so, relative to his salary. So, I've not even really examined obtaining Harkless in that event that he's able to fulfill this year's contract. But if that's not an option, there's a stout argument for trying to acquire Harkless.

The SDS writer proposed trading Splitter. Not only do I prefer to keep him, the talk in POR as far as I'm reading is that they're really overloaded on frontcourt players, and short of acquiring a player who is definitively better, they're unlikely to be interested.

The alternative I've explored is nudging ourselves over the cap, which if I'm not mistaken (and I can be), would enable us even now to still retroactively obtain a trade exception from the Teague trade. Then, with that trade exception, we'd do a sign-and-trade w/ POR to gain Harkless.

To do that nudge, though, requires some further reconstruction, starting with revising the Delaney deal so that we sign him with cap space instead of an exception. That pushes the total salaries from $91,446,006 to $93,946,006. With that, we need to trade Moose to whoever can return to us a salary between $1,212,690 and $1,623,544. Virtually any team that has signed a 2nd rounder from this draft is a potential trade partner, but one that seemingly could be interested to trade a veteran in that price range for a big like Moose is CLE, ie, our old friend Dahntay Jones.

Make such a trade, get nudged over the cap line, and then make a SnT deal using our trade exception space with POR for Harkless who is one of those relatively rare combo forwards with the size to legitimately guard forwards of all sizes from Kawhi Leonard to LBJ, but who they appear to be unwilling to make any commitment to due to how they have already over-committed themselves for the 17-18 season's payroll.

Bonus: We would come out of this with the full MLE to-boot.

 

Spoke to why POR would do this, but not why Harkless would sign-off on the $8m in the first year that we would be able to offer from the Teague exception...

His alternative for right now is to sign the $4m qualifying offer, and become a UFA next summer, all the while accepting a lesser role in POR that portends to suppress his production.

How many years on the contract? Personally, I'd want at least 2, and would do 3 ideally.

 

[gurpilo]

hace 8 horas, Peoriabird dijo:

Mike Scott shot 62% from the field, 50% from 3, 87.5% from FT line, 3.2 rebounds per game in 16 minutes

Thabo Shot 48% from the field, 36% from 3, 4.7 rebounds per game, 1 steal per game in 20 minutes per game. and was our best wing defender.

 

What did Moe Harkless do?

You must be kidding, Scott only came to play twice on playoffs, rest of the time was invisible specially against Cleveland. Our best defender was abused by Lebron all playoffs, he saved stats by 2 decent games but against the Celtics was a disaster. They were a non factors.

You like it or not but Harkless did more than decent in meaningful minutes against better teams and is younger with more potential, everybody can see it, and I am not even talking about Muscala or Hardaway. 

I know where we are going with these 2 supposedly good players for a playoff team, you think is better to keep mediocre players to make a mediocre playoffs? Ok that might work for you but I prefer to play a player wih potential, sorry I am not buying mediocrity!! 

Thabo might be better today is not going to provide better value next 3 Years and anyway I already know he is going to be destroyed by Lebron, perhaps I prefer to throw at him a young player that can evolve, at worst he gets destroyed as Thabo but he will be learning for next season.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

You must be kidding, Scott only came to play twice on playoffs, rest of the time was invisible specially against Cleveland. Our best defender was abused by Lebron all playoffs, he saved stats by 2 decent games but against the Celtics was a disaster. They were a non factors.

You like it or not but Harkless did more than decent in meaningful minutes against better teams and is younger with more potential, everybody can see it, and I am not even talking about Muscala or Hardaway. 

I know where we are going with these 2 supposedly good players for a playoff team, you think is better to keep mediocre players to make a mediocre playoffs? Ok that might work for you but I prefer to play a player wih potential, sorry I am not buying mediocrity!! 

Thabo might be better today is not going to provide better value next 3 Years and anyway I already know he is going to be destroyed by Lebron, perhaps I prefer to throw at him a young player that can evolve, at worst he gets destroyed as Thabo but he will be learning for next season.

Sooooo what did Harkless do against a team  that  does not have Lebron plus missing their 2 best players?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Sooooo what did Harkless do against a team  that  does not have Lebron plus missing their 2 best players?

Peo on a roll this mornin'.

I commend Harkless for playing kinda well vs a depleted LAC team but let's not go crazy.

ETA: With folks giving out contrax like there was no tomorrow, he's the one prospect left holding the bag.  There's probably a reason for that.

Edited July 25, 2016 by kg01

[sturt]

None of the parties have any seeming motivation right now to give-in to the other... ie, those other teams' GMs that have the room to make an RFA offer for the moment can't reconcile making one b/c they already have SF covered to their satisfaction. POR and Harkless meanwhile are at an impasse, given that POR is already over-committed for next year's  salary ledger, and that Harkless is not anxious to sign a qualifying offer that would only have him making $4m this season.

What this situation needs is for some other team to suddenly find themselves looking to fill a void due to injury or otherwise. (And as set forward in this thread, that team could be us.)