The Tank Thread

[davis171]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

We'll never know because Slinky blew the whole thing up, getting nothing for Millsap, and making his awesome trade to acquire Plumlee.  Kind of hard to speculate when you can't control any of it.

No one wanted Howard and he didn't fit here thats on Bud the GM

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

So don't draft talented players we hearing you loud and clear!

Wake me up next time we draft a franchise player.  (In spite of having #2, #3, #4, #6, etc.)

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

No one wanted Howard and he didn't fit here thats on Bud the GM

And someone wanted Plumlee?

[AHF]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

The league's owners will never go for an all out ban on tanking, because tanking represents at least a short term profit for them.  It's not a surprise that the Hawks decided to tank when their revenue went up due to TV deals and sponsorships.  Tanking gives the owners a short term period of time where they can control the costs of the roster while they make a profit, and in Ressler's case, that profit will likely go towards funding "The Gulch" that he is wanting to develop.  At some point though, that profit will start to wane, and Ressler will be pushing to put a competitive team on the floor again.

You keep ignoring that our payroll was higher this year than last year, don't you?  Higher payroll plus lower attendance does not equal increased profits.

 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

So you openly admit that you support a strategy that doesn't work?  Because if the Hawks are in the lottery for 4 years, the strategy has not worked.

Just like it failed for the champion Golden State Warriors?  Missed the playoffs for 5 consecutive years before making the playoffs building there fore years on the way towards multiple rings. 

And the Michael Jordan era Chicago Bulls?  Missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years before building in the playoffs for years on their way to multiple rings. 

And the Cleveland Cavs?  Missed the playoffs 7 consecutive years before making the playoffs and building to a finals appearance and then missed for 4 straight years on their way to making the playoffs and winning a ring? 

 And the Mavs?  Missed the playoffs for 10 consecutive years before making the playoffs and building for more years to two finals appearances and the franchise's only title?

Guess the only teams that have done it right are the Spurs (#1 overall + #1 overall + #3 overall = title), the Lakers (lottery pick MVP) and the Celtics (multiple lottery picks traded)?

 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/bad-to-good-the-treadmill-to-mediocrity/

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/why-tanking-doesnt-work-in-the-nba/

 

 

LMMFAO

You realize that when this was published the Golden State Warriors and Cleveland Cavs were each near the bottom of their respective conferences in the 20-some wins and 13th place?  

Since that was published we've seen 3 consecutive rings won by tankers from the bottom of the pile and ZERO championships from mediocre playoff teams.

Those articles are two of the biggest fails I've ever read.

[davis171]

Just now, Watchman said:

Wake me up next time we draft a franchise player.  (In spite of having #2, #3, #4, #6, etc.)

So um what do you want the hawks to do we have no assets!

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You keep ignoring that our payroll is higher this year than last year, don't you?

 

Just like it failed for the champion Golden State Warriors?  Missed the playoffs for 5 consecutive years before making the playoffs building there fore years on the way towards multiple rings. 

And the Michael Jordan era Chicago Bulls?  Missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years before building in the playoffs for years on their way to multiple rings. 

And the Cleveland Cavs?  Missed the playoffs 7 consecutive years before making the playoffs and building to a finals appearance and then missed for 4 straight years on their way to making the playoffs and winning a ring? 

 And the Mavs?  Missed the playoffs for 10 consecutive years before making the playoffs and building for more years to two finals appearances and the franchise's only title?

Guess the only teams that have done it right are the Spurs (#1 overall + #1 overall + #3 overall = title), the Lakers (lottery pick MVP) and the Celtics (multiple lottery picks traded)?

 

LMMFAO

You realize that when this was published the Golden State Warriors and Cleveland Cavs were each near the bottom of their respective conferences in the 20-some wins and 13th place?  

Since that was published we've seen 3 consecutive rings won by tankers from the bottom of the pile and ZERO championships from mediocre playoff teams.

Those articles are two of the biggest fails I've ever read.

Tell me, when did Golden State tank to the bottom of the league?  They never bottomed out.  They were simply bad for 20 something years before they got lucky.

The only leg you have to stand on in this debate is if the Hawks are somehow able to convince LeBron James to sign a free agent deal in the next 2 years.  

[Watchman]

Just now, davis171 said:

So um what do you want the hawks to do we have no assets!

I don't think we have any options now.  Our only hope is that Slinky doesn't mess the draft up.  Otherwise, pull your rocking chair up and wait for an unknown number of years until our historic rise to power.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

I don't think we have any options now.  Our only hope is that Slinky doesn't mess the draft up.  Otherwise, pull your rocking chair up and wait for an unknown number of years until our historic rise to power.

These people are banking on the idea that the Hawks will be the first team to ever use this strategy and actually win a championship.

[MaceCase]

Just now, Watchman said:

I wonder how many have threatened it, leaving their GM with no alternative other than to accept a crappy trade to avoid losing the player for nothing?  I bet that has happened more than a few times.

There's no need to wonder because that hasn't happened either so you'd lose that bet.  Franchises are in the absolute driving seat when it comes to restricted free agency thus why "I will turn down 70 million risking my long-term security" isn't much of a threat to them.  Look how well that's worked out for Nerlens Noel.  He was told to go home less than 20 games into the season for pulling that tactic.  I wonder what his next contract is going to look like.

[AHF]

Just now, KB21 said:

Tell me, when did Golden State tank to the bottom of the league?  They never bottomed out.  They were simply bad for 20 something years before they got lucky.

The only leg you have to stand on in this debate is if the Hawks are somehow able to convince LeBron James to sign a free agent deal in the next 2 years.  

Golden State absolutely deliberately tanked -- blatantly sitting healthy players and dealing away vets they thought  didn't fit their future -- and won 20 some games repeatedly.

Do I care about the PR speech the 2011-12 Warriors gave when they won 23 games?  They had a lower winning % that year than we do right now.  Do I care what PR speech they gave when they won 26?  17?  19?  No.  No.  No...and......No.

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

These people are banking on the idea that the Hawks will be the first team to ever use this strategy and actually win a championship.

Name the teams that went from mediocre playoff team with no superstar to a championship.  I'll wait.

 

I've given you about a dozen that went from top of the lottery to a ring.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

There's no need to wonder because that hasn't happened either so you'd lose that bet.  Franchises are in the absolute driving seat when it comes to restricted free agency thus why "I will turn down 70 million risking my long-term security" isn't much of a threat to them.  Look how well that's worked out for Nerlens Noel.  He was told to go home less than 20 games into the season for pulling that tactic.  I wonder what his next contract is going to look like.

He also got hurt and played like crap this season.  Somehow the team was worse with him on the floor this year and they've been really bad overall.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Golden State absolutely deliberately tanked -- blatantly sitting healthy players and dealing away vets they thought  didn't fit their future -- and won 20 some games repeatedly.

Do I care about the PR speech the 2011-12 Warriors gave when they won 23 games?  They had a lower winning % that year than we do right now.  Do I care what PR speech they gave when they won 26?  17?  19?  No.  No.  No...and......No.

Name the teams that went from mediocre playoff team with no superstar to a championship.  I'll wait.

 

I've given you about a dozen that went from top of the lottery to a ring.

No, you actually haven't.  You have included teams that drafted at the top BEFORE the lottery was in existence.  Still, in all the years of the lottery, only two teams have drafted #1 overall and won a championship with that player on the roster.  

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yes.  Next year's team will be worse than this year's team.

How?  If you add a potential star player plus 2 additional 1st round pick to an improving core, how will it be worse?  Don't understand your logic

[Watchman]

7 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

There's no need to wonder because that hasn't happened either so you'd lose that bet.  Franchises are in the absolute driving seat when it comes to restricted free agency thus why "I will turn down 70 million risking my long-term security" isn't much of a threat to them.  Look how well that's worked out for Nerlens Noel.  He was told to go home less than 20 games into the season for pulling that tactic.  I wonder what his next contract is going to look like.

Perhaps the more pertinent issue is why someone wasted a lottery pick on Nerlens Noel in the first place.  Let's hope that Slinky can draft better than that.

[Watchman]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

How?  If you add a potential star player plus 2 additional 1st round pick to an improving core, how will it be worse?  Don't understand your logic

What improving core?  Dennis?  Prince?  Bembry?  

[MaceCase]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

He also got hurt and played like crap this season.  Somehow the team was worse with him on the floor this year and they've been really bad overall.

He had some insubordination issues more so than he was hurt where the Mavs told him "you might as well get that surgery...because you're not playing anyway."  Regardless, player injury is a prime reason why guys aren't accepting their QOs left and right like is being suggest will happen to the Hawks with their crop of upcoming youngsters.

[MaceCase]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Perhaps the more pertinent issue is why someone wasted a lottery pick on Nerlens Noel in the first place.  Let's hope that Slinky can draft better than that.

No, that's more of you just trying to walk back off your statement.  If inconsequential players such as Noel can't get away with that strategy then how likely is it that a draft pick that the team actually has every desire to keep will get away with it?

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How?  If you add a potential star player plus 2 additional 1st round pick to an improving core, how will it be worse?  Don't understand your logic

Youth.

Young teams don't win.  Atlanta will have no fewer than 6 players on the roster who have one year or fewer years of experience, probably 7 if they don't use the 2nd round pick on a stash player.  That's almost half the active roster that will be either 2nd year players or rookies.  

The only 5 plus year vets that will be on the roster are Dennis Schröder, Kent Bazemore, Miles Plumlee and maybe Mike Muscala if he picks up his option (which I think he will do). 

Also, even if whoever they draft is a potential star player, that guy won't be a star as a rookie.  All rookies suck.

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Perhaps the more pertinent issue is why someone wasted a lottery pick on Nerlens Noel in the first place.  Let's hope that Slinky can draft better than that.

How dare you speak badly of the great Sam Hinkie, who also drafted Jahlil Okafor with the 3rd overall pick.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Watchman said:

What improving core?  Dennis?  Prince?  Bembry?  

John Collins, And yes Dennis is 24 and Prince is 23 and can improve you know

[Watchman]

Just now, KB21 said:

How dare you speak badly of the great Sam Hinkie, who also drafted Jahlil Okafor with the 3rd overall pick.

Slinky better be better than Hinkie or we are going to have a really long, long wait.