Atlanta Hawks Mock Draft 1.0

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I don't know that we can't, per se.  However, I do know it's not a good idea to have that much of your team on the same cycle financially.  I mean, what if they all pan out?  That basically means you have to re-up them all at the same time.  That's not feasible because it's highly unlikely that we'd be winning at a high level by then.

What if they all pan out as NBA players but not necessarily title-worthy guys?  You wanna Portland-up our cap for middling guys?

What if some pan out but you don't consider them all on the same level?  Well, that means somebody's getting a higher contract and somebody isn't.  What does that do to the lockerroom?

All in all, it's just not good.  And I didn't even touch the fact that having that many rookies usually means developing 'winning' habits is really difficult.

JMEO's

Nailed it.

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nailed it.

Somebody liked this post .... I don't know who though. 

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I don't know that we can't, per se.  However, I do know it's not a good idea to have that much of your team on the same cycle financially.  I mean, what if they all pan out?  That basically means you have to re-up them all at the same time.  That's not feasible because it's highly unlikely that we'd be winning at a high level by then.

What if they all pan out as NBA players but not necessarily title-worthy guys?  You wanna Portland-up our cap for middling guys?

What if some pan out but you don't consider them all on the same level?  Well, that means somebody's getting a higher contract and somebody isn't.  What does that do to the lockerroom?

All in all, it's just not good.  And I didn't even touch the fact that having that many rookies usually means developing 'winning' habits is really difficult.

JMEO's

Why would a late 1st and a second round pick cost you a lot to keep?  And if he wants too much then trade him.  Also Golden State seems to have a lot of players in the same salary cycle.  So it can be a positive no?

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would a late 1st and a second round pick cost you a lot to keep?  And if he wants too much then trade him.  Also Golden State seems to have a lot of players in the same salary cycle.  So it can be a positive no?

Late 1st/early 2nd doesn't matter when it's time to sign the second deal (which is what I was referring to).

Can't compare to GS based on the series of anomalies that allowed them to be what they are.  Klay and Draymond both signed before the cap-jump.  If they'd signed a year later ... just 1 year later .. they wouldn't likely have been able to keep both.  The jump also allowed them to get Durant.  On top of all that, Curry's balky ankles allowed them to trick him into signing a bad deal ... which allowed them to have the space to sign Klay/Draymond.

Long story long, there were several non-repeatable factors involved there.  They are, in many ways, the exception not the rule.

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would a late 1st and a second round pick cost you a lot to keep?  And if he wants too much then trade him.  Also Golden State seems to have a lot of players in the same salary cycle.  So it can be a positive no?

Close but not the same:

Curry drafted 09

Klay drafted 11

Green drafted 12

Kevin Durant drafted in 07.

I think Durant is on the same cycle as either Klay or Green because of the years apart.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Close but not the same:

Curry drafted 09

Klay drafted 11

Green drafted 12

Kevin Durant drafted in 07.

I think Durant is on the same cycle as either Klay or Green because of the years apart.

I just don't think you have to worry about maxing out late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks get 2 year deals

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would a late 1st and a second round pick cost you a lot to keep?  And if he wants too much then trade him.  Also Golden State seems to have a lot of players in the same salary cycle.  So it can be a positive no?

When rookies reach RFA their draft status no longer matters. If they pan out they'll be looking for big pay days.

Thats not true re GSW:

Steph got his extention last year

KD is due one this year

Klay has 1 year left and eligible to be extended.

Draymond has 2 years left.

[Buzzard]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

I just don't think you have to worry about maxing out late 1st round pick and 2nd round picks get 2 year deals

I agree. The odds are probably at best one out of five 2nd round picks even become a starter for you.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

I agree. The odds are probably at best one out of five 2nd round picks even become a starter for you.

So why not increase your odds of getting a starter out of those last 3 picks...Volume has been the key in the NFL.  Teams with the most picks do better.

[Buzzard]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So why not increase your odds of getting a starter out of those last 3 picks...Volume has been the key in the NFL.  Teams with the most picks do better.

Two problems, 1st you have to hit a NBA minimum salary cap. The more rookie contracts you have the harder that becomes. 2nd, I also think you don't won't your team looking like the three stooges out there. Philly got a lot of bad press when they went into tank mode and started a NBADL looking roster near the end of one season. It is just not good for moral or community spirit.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Two problems, 1st you have to hit a NBA minimum salary cap. The more rookie contracts you have the harder that becomes. 2nd, I also think you don't want your team looking like the three stooges out there. Philly got a lot of bad press when they went into tank mode and started a NBADL looking roster near the end of one season. It is just not good for moral or community spirit.

fixed

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Two problems, 1st you have to hit a NBA minimum salary cap. The more rookie contracts you have the harder that becomes. 2nd, I also think you don't won't your team looking like the three stooges out there. Philly got a lot of bad press when they went into tank mode and started a NBADL looking roster near the end of one season. It is just not good for moral or community spirit.

What do you mean?  We'll still have the same team with the starting line up unchanged unless the #3 pick Beats someone out in training camp.  We'll just have 3 young guys at the end of the bench unless we are surprised by someone.

[Buzzard]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

What do you mean?  We'll still have the same team with the starting line up unchanged unless the #3 pick Beats someone out in training camp.  We'll just have 3 young guys at the end of the bench unless we are surprised by someone.

I am talking long term. You are talking this upcoming season. The vision is in one to two seasons, those big contracts are off our books. Now you have to hit league minimum cap with 6 to 8 rookie contracts on it. 2nd, No decent free agent will want to play with us if we look like the three stooges.

Having a whole bunch of 2nd round picks IMO is just a bad idea.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I am talking long term. You are talking this upcoming season. The vision is in one to two seasons, those big contracts are off our books. Now you have to hit league minimum cap with 6 to 8 rookie contracts on it. 2nd, No decent free agent will want to play with us if we look like the three stooges.

Having a whole bunch of 2nd round picks IMO is just a bad idea.

Baze and Dennis have 3 years left on their contracts right? So does Bumble Right? Prince and Bembry will be restricted next year right? Dedmon might get a 3 year deal right?  Who know what free agent will be signed over the next few years so I'm still not following you

[Buzzard]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Baze and Dennis have 3 years left on their contract right?  Prince and Bembry will be restricted next year right? Dedmon might get a 3 year deal right?  Who know what free agent will be signed over the next few years so I'm still not following you

Collins, plus our four picks this year already make for five rookie contracts. One more season and we could have as many as 6 or 7. Bazemore, Schröder, Plumlee come off the books we will be scrambling to hit the minimum payroll. I think we have more than enough picks already; if anything, we have to many this season.

I have no problem trading 19, 30, and 34 into a single upgrade and take the player we covet. Or stick with 19 and trade 30 and 34 for future first to a team that wants something more in this draft.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Collins, plus our four picks this year already make for five rookie contracts. One more season and we could have as many as 6 or 7. Bazemore, Schröder, Plumlee come off the books we will be scrambling to hit the minimum payroll. I think we have more than enough picks already; if anything, we have to many this season.

I have no problem trading 19, 30, and 34 into a single upgrade and take the player we covet. Or stick with 19 and trade 30 and 34 for future first to a team that wants something more in this draft.

So we don't sign anyone to replace Baze, Dennis or Plumlee?  And since when is having cap flexibility a bad thing?

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So we don't sign anyone to replace Baze, Dennis or Plumlee?

Of course we do. But what you are not understanding is that with each rookie contract we keep, we lose a vet contract. We will probably continue lowering our payroll for the next two to three years just based on rookie contracts being cheaper than vet contracts.

You are wanting to put all your eggs into one basket ( this draft ). What has you so sold on this draft? Especially the late part of it.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Of course we do. But what you are not understanding is that with each rookie contract we keep, we lose a vet contract. We will probably continue lowering our payroll for the next two to three years just based on rookie contracts being cheaper than vet contracts.

You are wanting to put all your eggs into one basket ( this draft ). What has you so sold on this draft? Especially the late part of it.

yep...Rather have the late round draft picks than the undrafted free agents like Tyler Cavanaugh and Josh Magette any day of the week.  And will gladly replace Bumble with whatever.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

yep...Rather have the late round draft picks than the undrafted free agents like Tyler Cavanaugh and Josh Magette any day of the week.  And will gladly replace Bumble with whatever.

You can lose your flexibility with a lot of 1st round draft picks. Non guaranteed free agents we can cut lose, buy out on the cheap, to make room anytime we need to. It is a balance in my mind. For you, you want to draft as many players as possible. Now if there is someone that we think highly of, then hell yes try and trade back in.

But for me it is a balance; at least until we get one, two, or three young players who are worthy of sniffing a max contract.

[nathan2331]

So long as we pick them in different positions, I'd actually like to keep 4 picks in this draft. This draft is very deep. There's a lot of guys with big potential that will be taken outside the lottery. Someone like Melvin Frazier could be a star if he gets in the right situation. His defense and 7'2" wingspan will get him on the floor right now, and with his offensive improvements he could be our 3rd best wing Day 1.

 

Even though there's a metric ton of SGs in this draft, if we could use our cap space to move from #19 to the 8-10 range a haul of:

 

#3: C - Mo Bamba

#9: SF/PF - Miles Bridges

#30: SG/SF - Melvin Frazier

#34: PG - Isaac Bonga

 

Would give us at least 2 starting quality players, and 2 guys with high potential that could at least be valuable defensive options players.