The Next Move.

[sturt]

In my best Natalie Maines voice... background harmonies by Captain Obvious...

There's your trouble....

 

 

Teams routinely lock-up those who are true, self-evident elites.

 

Until one of those becomes available... and at a reasonable price... I like our homegrown, one might even say organic, product.

 

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

In my best Natalie Maines voice... background harmonies by Captain Obvious...

There's your trouble....

 

 

Teams routinely lock-up those who are true, self-evident elites.

 

Until one of those becomes available... and at a reasonable price... I like our homegrown, one might even say organic, product.

 

 

Wow...  We just locked up Trae for 207 Million. 

Back to topic......

Those guys become available all the time.  Look at Simmons.  He's on the market.   Look at Harden.  Look at Westbrook.  Look at Dame and Beal.   The reason people talk about trading for these dudes is because they are on the market.  An elite player can truly force his way to another team.  Harden showed you that.  Simmons will be moved in some way.  Either to another team or another position.  But Doc needed a scape goat and Simmons was standing there.   There will be other players who will want to move.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Wow...  We just locked up Trae for 207 Million. 

It's an extension to his existing contract so only 4 years can be added. He now has 5yrs/$229 million left after this season.

[sillent]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

The Next Step is the Next Step.   The economics and the talent level will dictate what happens next.  It's not a process... we're there.   We have gone farther than the team with the process.   Now, either we can win with this or we have to look to get better.  I'm mister stay pat... but at the same time, when we have asessets that can be lost, we have to start considering what tweaks can we make to make us a whole lot better.   I see you talking strongly about our strength and depth in other threads.  Did you ever stop to think why teams don't remain this strong for long?  I mean...  OKC had Westbrook, KD, Harden, and Ibaka.  They also had Fisher and Perk.  Why couldn't they maintain??  Because once guys get to star status... playing the background and taking less money is not what they want to do.   Harden didn't want to come off the bench for the rest of his career.   Neither do Cam and Heurter.   That's why there were those Cam trade rumors this summer.  I don't think that was just conjecture.   I think Travis was looking at Deals and just didn't see anything that moved him.  But he knows... he has valuable talent on the bench.   It won't stay that way for long.   This year, he will let Dre and Cam continue to improve and show their stuff but by next season or maybe even by the deadline this year... moves will be made. 

 

True you can't pay everyone which is why you groom young players on reasonable contracts. 

OKC had Harden on the bench for who??? I can't even remember but I know that player was less talented than Harden. They refused to see the value in their own player. They traded him for Kevin Martin just to put that in prospective.

If you don't learn from history you repeat it.

Any player worth bringing over our guys are going to cost more financially and in depth or lack there of.

For those that can't/won't take reasonable contracts we draft their replacement but we shouldn't just trade for the fear of... 

These are not players that are at their peak ages trying to cash out on their best deal. At 23 and younger alot of our guys aren't even going to know how to spend those large contracts at such a young age. Not only that but they can only get a certain amount at their ages because they are not eligible for the type of max's some of these other guys are getting. They will get better but who says they will reach their peak in a yr or two that will even demand that type of money? Best part about our team is they don't need to because collectively if we play our roles correctly that's enough to push us over the top which we almost saw last year. We beat the #1 seeded 76ers with No Dre or Cam.

No one in their right mind (players included) would willingly leave an opportunity to do something special when they are so close. When/if we run across situations like that then we can open the trade discussions. 

Either way we have bird rights to all of our core for the most part so the ball is in our hands. We don't drop the ball out of fear. We make the right pass out of necessity. Right now it's just unnecessary.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, sillent said:

OKC had Harden on the bench for who??? I can't even remember but I know that player was less talented than Harden. They refused to see the value in their own player. They traded him for Kevin Martin just to put that in prospective.

Thabo Sefalosha was the starting SG during Harden 3 years with OKC when they won 55, 55 and 47 games, they won 60 games the year after trading him.  OKC dealing Harden was strictly a money issue not a talent issue. 

1. The ownership was not willing to have a $100 million dollar payroll

2. Harden wanted more money than they were willing to pay

3. Harden felt he was already sacrificing coming off the bench and did not want to sacrifice money as well (and I can see this happening with a bench player, his agent can easily tell him a team is offering him a starting spot).

These players care about the money and getting paid what they think is their market value regardless if they know what to do with it or not.  We just went thru this with JC turning down $90 mil and getting $125 - they care.

[sillent]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thabo Sefalosha was the starting SG during Harden 3 years with OKC when they won 55, 55 and 47 games, they won 60 games the year after trading him.  OKC dealing Harden was strictly a money issue not a talent issue. 

1. The ownership was not willing to have a $100 million dollar payroll

2. Harden wanted more money than they were willing to pay

3. Harden felt he was already sacrificing coming off the bench and did not want to sacrifice money as well (and I can see this happening with a bench player, his agent can easily tell him a team is offering him a starting spot).

These players care about the money and getting paid what they think is their market value regardless if they know what to do with it or not.  We just went thru this with JC turning down $90 mil and getting $125 - they care.

Thabo lol.... That's an obvious case of Harden's lack of defense and OKC's lack of depth. Those are the only 2 reasons Harden should've been coming off their bench in the 1st place.

Honestly I don't see Cam coming off the bench for long for that very reason. We know Dre isn't. If Cam is still coming off the bench it's because he's under performing which more than likely would make his value less on the market. Either that or Bogi/Huerter are playing out of their minds. Either way if neither one of them make an allstar team or all nba team the price will only be so much.

More than likely Bogi and Huerter will end the season on the bench. Huerter should be able to make Bogi expendable if he's going to demand a good amount of money. It's understandable that Gallo, Bogi and possibly Clint will/should be traded before our young core.

JC is a different case. He's our longest tenured player and has been thru the worst with our team. He has all the right to demand a little more because of the hard times he's endured and the constant improvements he's made yr by yr.

If Huerter was improving on the same scale we might not have even looked Bogi's way. At this point we have enough young talent to not need our vets as much after this yr so we can move pieces around to obtain the money necessary. 

Our owner isn't that cheap either. He's just a businessman. He wants premium winning if he's going to pay a premium expense.

If players and the team lives up to expectations we can afford to pay more. Even if that means we are no longer flexible cap room wise. Why??? Because most of our players aren't even 23 yet and are know where near their primes. 

If we lock up a group of 23 and younger players for the next 5yrs it's not the end of the world. If our core was currently in the 26-28 range that would possibly be another story but even then you could get a valuable 5yr run if they were up to par.

This is chess not checkers and you don't make moves without understanding what's ahead. We are in a great situation. If our players reach their potential we can afford to pay them and still be good for yrs. If they don't we can either keep them at a reasonable price or move them. It's not as complicated as the rest of the nba world (media) is trying to make it.

One thing we do know is media is often wrong. Unapologetically wrong. If we listen to them what does that make us?

If they were giving our team the credit they deserve it will be less people on here having that discussion or disbelief. Since the media under values and discredits it seems like some of our fans are sniffing that sauce.

I'm just curious to know the narrative if a freak accident didn't happen and we won a chip or got to the finals ala the Suns. In my opinion the best thing happened to us that could've happened to us. We've made the small but necessary adjustments. Let's not get to far ahead of ourselves and over do it. The ball is in our court.

 

 

 

[Diesel]

20 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thabo Sefalosha was the starting SG during Harden 3 years with OKC when they won 55, 55 and 47 games, they won 60 games the year after trading him.  OKC dealing Harden was strictly a money issue not a talent issue. 

1. The ownership was not willing to have a $100 million dollar payroll

2. Harden wanted more money than they were willing to pay

3. Harden felt he was already sacrificing coming off the bench and did not want to sacrifice money as well (and I can see this happening with a bench player, his agent can easily tell him a team is offering him a starting spot).

These players care about the money and getting paid what they think is their market value regardless if they know what to do with it or not.  We just went thru this with JC turning down $90 mil and getting $125 - they care.

This...

This is what I see will be the major issue with having too many players with high ceiling.   Eventually, the ones who are taking a back seat will want to sit in the front.   And want to be paid like they are sitting in the front. 

I mean, the plan is good and the thoughts are nice...

OO for CC

JJ for DG

Hunter

Cam For Bogi

Trae

This is our depth and how we will rotate out our older players.   BUT....even with the increase in the cap.. these guys will want to be paid or want to be in the front seat.   Unless we can win a chip.. I don't know if we will keep them all. 

[Gray Mule]

The next step?  Wait.  How long?  Until we settle down in Atlanta and College Park.  Will out 15 Hawks be healthy?  Will our G League team have players doing so well they force their way upstairs?

Maybe someone on another team has had it with his team and wants out.  How would he fit here?  What would we have to offer?  Who would he displace?  And, are the home team Hawks still hungry for victory?  Or, have they somehow got the "big head" and let their ego get the best of them?

We now have a regular head coach, not an interm.  He now has his own staff rather than the one he inherited.  They now have the entire off season to prepare for the upcoming pre season.  Will they bring us success?  Will our injured defensive players help overcome?

You got answers?  We got questions !!

[sturt]

Add to the list of potential bigs who would plausibly accept Schlenk's offer of a non-guaranteed minimum contract... this not-so-old friend...

 

[Gray Mule]

Thanks!  Good to know that he's still around.  Hope he makes the grade this time.

[RedDawg#8]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:50 AM, Diesel said:

This...

This is what I see will be the major issue with having too many players with high ceiling.   Eventually, the ones who are taking a back seat will want to sit in the front.   And want to be paid like they are sitting in the front. 

I mean, the plan is good and the thoughts are nice...

OO for CC

JJ for DG

Hunter

Cam For Bogi

Trae

This is our depth and how we will rotate out our older players.   BUT....even with the increase in the cap.. these guys will want to be paid or want to be in the front seat.   Unless we can win a chip.. I don't know if we will keep them all. 

The good news is that we control their Bird rights and the owner has pledged to pay up if it means we are a contender.

So it just takes patience and discernment from Schlenk which he has shown.

If a guy wants more money and a bigger role, if he is a James Harden that is sacrificing then pay up. But if he is a Schröder that has an inflated view of himself then you may need to let him walk or trade for assets

It's on us to have the discipline to make the right money choices.