Hunter vs. Bey...

[Diesel]

I want to be one of the first to start the examination.

We have been graced to have two good Sfs.  They will be compared, even more than Hunter and Reddish were. 

To me... I see the two and I see a Tom Collins being compared to Gin and Juice. 

The Tom Collins is refined. Dressed up. 

The Gin and Juice gets right to the point. 

The both have similar ingredients but it just about what suits you.   Right now the Tom Collins is about to be 90 Million dollars richer.   The Gin and Juice want to make that same amount.

What say you?

 

[Peoriabird]

Small forward is the least of the team's problem...In fact, I would ague its a strength of the team.  If the question is to sacrifice one to resign DJ,  that is a big no for me period!

[RedDawg#8]

Bey plays with more edge/assertiveness, which is an important intangible that we could use more of.

Dre is very talented, but not consistent. He also doesn’t make enough impact plays defensively to justify his status as the better defender of the two.

Im good with keeping both but not at the expense of other key pieces, so there definitely is a conversation to be had.

[deester11]

Meh...they are interchangeable but as stated above, Bey plays with more energy.  That's not all there is to it but yeah.  I'm probably down on Hunter more then most but he's here.  Btw...did I see that JJ has 16 less assists than Hunter in a 1000 less minutes? Ugh 

[Gray Mule]

JJ-------6'8"---219LBS

HUN----6'8" - - 221LBS

BEY----6'7" - - 215LBS

AJ-----6'6" - - 219LBS

Seems that the Hawks have at least four players who are all about the same size.  All are playing the SF or PF position and are interchangeable in which position they play.  Maybe better at one position but they can swap positions and still produce.  Don't overlook either of them.

[JayBirdHawk]

Bey has a nose for the ball on offense and a more rugged player. Great offensive instincts. Plays with more urgency. Defense needs a lot of work.

Hunter is steady, not in a rush. More methodical, mechanical - lacks that wiggle in his hips. On defense I can leave him on an island with little help. 

Two different skillsets and can definitely use both.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Small forward is the least of the team's problem...In fact, I would ague its a strength of the team.  If the question is to sacrifice one to resign DJ,  that is a big no for me period!

Who said anything about problem...

As a matter of fact, I started off saying "We have been graced to have two good Sfs. "

[Diesel]

32 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Meh...they are interchangeable but as stated above, Bey plays with more energy.  That's not all there is to it but yeah.  I'm probably down on Hunter more then most but he's here.  Btw...did I see that JJ has 16 less assists than Hunter in a 1000 less minutes? Ugh 

Would you be as down on Hunter if he hadn't been given the extension??

I had to reinvestigate my feelings toward Hunter in that light.  If he wasn't about to come into 90 Million, would I still think some of the things that I think about him?

 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

lacks that wiggle in his hips.

[Peoriabird]

Maybe I don't understand the discussion! please explain the point of the thread again then!

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Maybe I don't understand the discussion! please explain the point of the thread again then!

Quote

 They will be compared, even more than Hunter and Reddish were. 

 Basically PB, how do you see our set of SFs... strengths and weaknesses...

I know during this time of Mid.. everybody thinks that every thread is about a problem.. but this is not one. 

 

[Peoriabird]

We don't know a lot about the team as a whole because of the structure of our offense. I think both could do a lot more in a different offense but you can't possibly know what they are in this system.  Plus, they both will get better at everything as their careers progress so there is not a reason to pigeon hole either at this stage in their careers

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

We don't know a lot about the team as a whole because of the structure of our offense. I think both could do a lot more in a different offense but you can't possibly know what they are in this system.  Plus, they both will get better at everything as their careers progress so there is not reason to pigeon hole either at this stage in their careers

I disagree.

The things we know are how they tend to play... Aggressively, not aggressive...  Good shooter from outside, inconsistent shooter from outside... Willing passer or not.  Can dribble or not.    Those things are not scheme related...  Also,  good man on man defender or not.  Good help defender or not ... Good shot blocker or not.  Good rebounder or not.. A nose for steals or not.

[Peoriabird]

Knock yourself out then Diesel although I will remind you of one of your favorite Hawks players played a different role with the Hawks than he did with Utah in Millsap and so did another player from phoenix in Joe Johnson

[Diesel]

44 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Knock yourself out then Diesel although I will remind you of one of your favorite Hawks players played a different role with the Hawks than he did with Utah in Millsap and so did another player from phoenix in Joe Johnson

Both were good though.

Sure, Sap was great with us, but he was ~15, 7, 2 with Utah.  And Joe Johnson was sold to us as coming in to play PG.   So glad that didn't happen. 

Still.. neither of those things has anything to do with the comparison.   I guess you're trying to say that players can grow under different schemes?  Sure.  but a different offensive scheme is not going to bring out what wasn't already there.   Sap was a great midrange shooter when we got him.  He was a mediocre 3 pt shooter because nobody expected him to shoot threes.  His last season with Utah he shot 39 3 pters.   His first season with us, he put up 212 of those things.   His 3pt% went from 33.3% to 35.3%.  It's a 2.0% difference but I would say it's because he got more reps.  Meaning, that he wasn't a bad 3pt shooter at Utah, he was a seldom used one. 

 What areas do you expect that Hunter and Bey are going to change under a new offensive scheme that will make this comparison different?

If you're expecting scheme to make some great turn around, you will be sad. 

[Gray Mule]

Almost all of us at one time or another has put together a picture puzzle.  Pieces must fit or you can't really complete the picture.  I apply this simple logic to building a NBA team.  This piece goes here.  That piece goes there.  Finally, a picture emerges from all this jumble of pieces.

It's the GM's responsibility to get the parts.  It's the head coach and his assistants responcibility to assemble the various parts into the picture we all want to see - - A winning team.

[Peoriabird]

I guess @Diesel hasn't checked his facts...Neither Joe nor Millsap were all stars until coming to Atlanta LOL!  Neither were even considered consistent starters during their 1st 4 year but whatever

[deester11]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Would you be as down on Hunter if he hadn't been given the extension??

I had to reinvestigate my feelings toward Hunter in that light.  If he wasn't about to come into 90 Million, would I still think some of the things that I think about him?

 

Possibly.  I'm trying to...but it's just maddening knowing he's just a guy.  Truth is, I didn't expect MJ..but I did think he'd be above average in a lot of ways.  He's always been..a guy.  That's not good imho.  

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

e nor Millsap were all stars until coming to Atlanta LOL!  Neither were even considered consistent starters during their 1st 4 year but whatever

Jeff Teague was an allstar. 

IN the right circumstance, anybody can be an allstar.  You question point of something.  What's the point PB??  How does this relate to the comparison?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, deester11 said:

Possibly.  I'm trying to...but it's just maddening knowing he's just a guy.  Truth is, I didn't expect MJ..but I did think he'd be above average in a lot of ways.  He's always been..a guy.  That's not good imho.  

I don't disagree at all. He always looks like a victim to me.  If he's not crying to the refs, or on the floor.. then he's walking back to the bench checking his nose for blood.   Sometimes I just want to tell Dre'... Man the F--k up...  You never see any of that from Bey.   I'm my heart, I want to believe that Dre' brings more to the table than Bey.. But I don't see it.   I'm not swayed by the rumblings that he's such a great defender.   I haven't seen him lock down anybody.  He gets no steals or blocks or rebounds.  He's big but he doesn't play all that big.  At most, he just stays in front of his man. 

He's got time to be better but I hear a whole lot of the same things I heard about Marvin.   Then there are the ticky tack injuries.   Again... Man the F--- up.