Supes Offseason fixes

[Peoriabird]

Are we really back to the Hunter at the 4 debate? It is so strange to me for Hawk fans to continue to try to fix an already top 10 offense by sacrificing the the already bottom 10 defense and rebounding even morr when it should be clear to even the most casual fan that defense wins in the playoffs period. It is our lack of defense is why we lose not because Bogie or Trae didn't make 5 threes or Hunter can't dribble. I'm sorry to have to say this but this fan base appears to lack fundamental basketball knowledge.

[Peoriabird]

So elite somehow is not the top tier? Now there are categories of elite like super duper elite and none Hall of Fame elite? Is that even a thing to be elite but not Hall of Fame material? Heck Nique wasn't elite at anything except jumping and he is a Hall of Fame. But ok

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Hunter is to move to playing the 4 full time.

Hunter does not play physical enough. We are already a small team. We shouldn't get any smaller.

[JustSomeGuy]

I don’t disagree. I personally think that both Hunter and JC are charmin soft and should be moved. The reality is I don’t think that will happen. I think his defensive prowess is greatly overstated by some. He’s the king of the misfits on this team.

The part everyone misses is every individual player doesn’t have to be a good defender to have a good defense. Scheme and structure matter. Bey isn’t a good defender either but is at least more disruptive than DH. With better structure around him I suspect he could at least be a serviceable fit in a strong team defense. 

BUT if you pair Hunter at the 4 with his length and a center who can control the paint defensively, I think it works (a la Quin’s Gobert, Bogdanovich, Ingles pairing in Utah). 

[Peoriabird]

Bey isn’t a good defender either but is at least more disruptive than Dre.

Sounds like we found another Terrell!

[JustSomeGuy]

@Peoriabird Hunter at the 4 improves our POA defense with another switchable perimeter defender while making room In the starting 5 for another scorer/3 and D wing. It improves spacing, created room for another short creator, AND improves our perimeter defense. 

The league is moving away from the traditional big 4 into the switchable 3/4 hybrid in this role. Consider that Boston functionally plays Tatum at the 4 anyway. Same for Miami and Jimmy/Caleb Martin, Philly and Tobias Harris (who came in as a 3). In the West you have guys like LeBron, Aaron Gordon, KD and Torrey Craig. We do need size and interior presence but don’t have to sacrifice one for the other. Becoming more multiple makes us more dynamic. 

[JustSomeGuy]

Quote

Sounds like we found another Terrelll

I don’t know who that is @Peoriabird but would love to hear your fix.

Reality is Hunter is a tweener who doesn’t do anything great, especially not things you would need a primary ball handler to do (dribble, pass, create). Playing him as a guard or primary scorer is an absolute non starter so hiding his weaknesses within team construction only makes him, and the team, better. 

[Peoriabird]

@JustSomeGuy our primary fix is at center...I've talked about this ad nauseum.  Clint Capela is the worst pick and roll defender on the team. He is almost as bad as a 1 on 1 defender both on the perimeter and in the paint. He is now a below average help defender and the only asset he brings is rebounding which he is no longer elite at.  I don't even have to talk about his offense since everybody who follows basketball knows that he has none. Secondly, Dejounte Murray is not a good defender. He constantly dies on screens and can't stay in front of even the most mediocre offensive wing and his inconsistent ball pounding iso offense isn't good enough to over come his defensive issue. Plus on top of that, his next contract will be crippling to the team going forward. So my solution is to focus on those 2 players and finding a more useful defensive center rather than getting rid of the only 6'8" 2 way wing you have who is currently on a fair contract which might become a bargin if he improve on any aspect of his game in the future.

[deester11]

25 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

I don’t know who that is @Peoriabird but would love to hear your fix.

Reality is Hunter is a tweener who doesn’t do anything great, especially not things you would need a primary ball handler to do (dribble, pass, create). Playing him as a guard or primary scorer is an absolute non starter so hiding his weaknesses within team construction only makes him, and the team, better. 

Hunter at guard is a walking disaster offensively.  Just no.  Defensively...I'm realistically not A hunter fan at all so I'm biased, but given the right pieces I can see how that part of his game is at least feasible.  

[bird_dirt]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@JustSomeGuy our primary fix is at center...I've talked about this ad nauseum.  Clint Capela is the worst pick and roll defender on the team. He is almost as bad as a 1 on 1 defender both on the perimeter and in the paint. He is now a below average help defender and the only asset he brings is rebounding which he is no longer elite at.  I don't even have to talk about his offense since everybody who follows basketball that he has none. Secondly, Dejounte Murray is not a good defender. He constantly dies on screens and can't stay in front of even the most mediocre offensive wing and his inconsistent ball pounding iso offense isn't good enough to over come his defensive issue. Plus on top of that, his next contract will be crippling to the team going forward. So my solution is to focus on those 2 players and finding a more useful defensive center rather than getting rid of the only 6'8" 2 way wing you have who is currently on a fair contract which might become a bargin if he improve on any aspect of his game in the future.

Correction: you’ve complained about this ad nauseum. But I can’t recall you providing any tangible fixes.  
So, who exactly does @Peoriabird think are realistic targets the Hawks should go after to take us to the next level? And what do you realistically think it would take for us to acquire them, either contractually or trade asset-wise? 
Let’s hear it. I want to know. I want names of real players and figures. 
I’ll take my answer off the air. 

[Peoriabird]

@bird_dirt I actually did which was trade Murray for Nic Claxton and draft capital. Or I like the idea of pursuing Robin Lopez or Zubac. Then somehow trade Capela in a separate deal.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Are we really back to the Hunter at the 4 debate? It is so strange to me for Hawk fans to continue to try to fix an already top 10 offense by sacrificing the the already bottom 10 defense and rebounding even morr when it should be clear to even the most casual fan that defense wins in the playoffs period. It is our lack of defense is why we lose not because Bogie or Trae didn't make 5 threes or Hunter can't dribble. I'm sorry to have to say this but this fan base appears to lack fundamental basketball knowledge.

IN our one win in this series, what was our defensive standoff?    Boston shot about 49% from the field and 44% from three,  how did we win that with no defensive stand?  How did we beat a team that hit 21 3 pters... if we were not applying defensive pressure?

Here's how... We outscored them.

That's how games are won.   People preach defense wins championships but if your offense doesn't score, you're not going to do anything.   What wins is a differential between how many points you score and how many points they score.   Defense is the easiest way to accomplish that.   i.e. if I stop them and I can score, I will win.   But there's another way that can work... I can outscore them. 

I've watched GS maximize this premise and win titles.  Yes, they had good defense but they were not the Bulls with MJ, Scottie, and Dennis. 

Last Game 

Last game, we let Boston beat us on the boards.  That's what we can't do.  We need more than our share of opportunities to score.   Moreover, everytime we made a run, it was a turnover like Dre dribbling off his foot or OO getting called for a bad screen or OO running over White which killed our run. 

For us in this series, we have to be perfect.  Our defense isn't good enough to stop Boston.   They have far too many weapons.   What we can do is outscore them.

 

[Peoriabird]

So winning 1 out of 4 games somehow proves your point??  This is laughable except It's actually sad that there is no awareness on this message board.  The Hawks literally had 3 20 point scorer and 1 30 point scorer last game and we still lost because of the offense??? Just wow!

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JustSomeGuy said:

The league is moving away from the traditional big 4 into the switchable 3/4 hybrid in this role.

Moving away from..  I disagree.   I say that the league has some examples of switchable 3/4 hybrids.. but that's a little out of necessity. 

You still have KD, Giannis, Lebron, KAT, JJJ,  Mobley, Gordon, Randle, Kuzma, Markkennan etc...

Big guys or strong guys who can play the 4 physically.   Sure there are some Tatum, Batum's, and even Jimmy Butlers... but those guys are not what I would call the league is moving too.   I think those are just guys who was able to play the position for a period because of their switching but there will be a return of the big strong 4 because basketball is cyclical. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Hunter at the 4 improves our POA defense with another switchable perimeter defender while making room In the starting 5 for another scorer/3 and D wing. It improves spacing, created room for another short creator, AND improves our perimeter defense. 

Who is the new SF you are recommending bringing in to help our 3nD, POA and shot creation?

[Peoriabird]

Moreover, everytime we made a run, it was a turnover like Dre dribbling off his foot

 

Lost because of turnovers??? Dre had 1 and team had a total of 12. This is so funny.

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 Moreover, everytime we made a run, it was a turnover like Dre dribbling off his foot

Not in the last game.

[Diesel]

57 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So winning 1 out of 4 games somehow proves your point??  This is laughable except It's actually sad that there is no awareness on this message board.  The Hawks literally had 3 20 point scorer and 1 30 point scorer and we still lost because of the offense??? Just wow!

We lost because of failure to sustain offense.

Tell me.. how do you expect us to stop Boston??  Think about it.  Brown and Tatum are one thing.  White and Smart are another.  Horford and Williams are yet another.   Then then got Williams off the bench.   

What's your defensive strategy @Peoriabird??

This is how we look trying to stop Boston..

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Moreover, everytime we made a run, it was a turnover like Dre dribbling off his foot or OO getting called for a bad screen or OO running over White which killed our run

I thought I would give yall who were half quoting me the whole quote... I know it doesn't fit the agenda of some...

 

[Peoriabird]

What's your defensive strategy @Peoriabird??

I did an entire post on this where I blamed the coaching staff for not emphasizing defending the pick and roll when they 1st arrived. Secondly, this unproductive double team of the perimeter players 25 feet away from the basket leaving Smart or whomever wide open has to stop immediately. 3rdly Capela can't play heavy minutes and Okungwu has to step it up. Capela is an atrocious defender now...I would even try some small ball with John and JJ in the front court over Capela playing 20 plus minutes.  Let's face it, this season is over and the focus should be addressing the center position and getting something for Murray in the offseason.