Supes Offseason fixes

[JeffS17]

I used to be on board with getting KAT here, but the more I watch this team -- and the more I watch KAT, I've backtracked on that a lot.  KAT has really struggled in the playoffs and he's a defensive liability in the most important defensive position.  He's an elite offensive talent, but I don't think you need more than one on a team -- particularly if they're both liabilities on defense.  Imagining Trae/KAT getting targeted every playoffs in the PnR makes me cringe.

I would much rather let OO continue to develop an outside shot and be more of an Al Horford type center.  Also, OO is the one of the only players we have right now that isn't soft.  He gets stupid fouls all the time (mostly due to flopping/overselling contact), but I will take that all day over watching our bigs get bullied all game long.

If we're going to target another star big, I'd rather it be at PF.  This is where we have the biggest gap today.  Otherwise, adding a stretch 5 that can fit with OO well would be my priority.  Brook Lopez type player -- but those don't grow on trees so I'm not holding my breath there. @NBASupes has mentioned Sengun a lot and I would love to have a player like him.  I just reaallllyyy worry that getting KAT on that massive contract would put a ceiling on this team that is just below championship level.

I love the other moves here as we clearly need POA defense and overall better defensive pieces.  

[JeffS17]

Last thing I'll say is I don't think this is the summer to take big risks.  Coach Quin just got here and we have one year of Murray/Trae playing together.  The most important thing right now is getting better, but we don't necessarily need to make championship or bust moves.  Get close to high 40s wins next season or 50+ if we can, and then try to make a run in the playoffs.  The most important thing to me for this offseason is keeping and extending Saddiq/OO on a reasonable contracts, and getting a new identity under Quin (offense and defense).  Next offseason Murray is the big question mark.

[ShooterSays]

I think Porzingis would be an ideal fit next to OO17 if there was a way we could land him, but don't really see Washington letting him go.

[AUhawksfan]

So the trade of Murray brings up the question:  if we resigned Murray to a decent contract, would you rather trade him or Trae if you had to choose who goes on the block?

I have a hard time with this one.  I lean towards Murray because of defense and more consistency than Trae, but I also think Trae can even out nicely and play smarter given some more time with Quin.

 

[NBASupes]

53 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I used to be on board with getting KAT here, but the more I watch this team -- and the more I watch KAT, I've backtracked on that a lot.  KAT has really struggled in the playoffs and he's a defensive liability in the most important defensive position.  He's an elite offensive talent, but I don't think you need more than one on a team -- particularly if they're both liabilities on defense.  Imagining Trae/KAT getting targeted every playoffs in the PnR makes me cringe.

I would much rather let OO continue to develop an outside shot and be more of an Al Horford type center.  Also, OO is the one of the only players we have right now that isn't soft.  He gets stupid fouls all the time (mostly due to flopping/overselling contact), but I will take that all day over watching our bigs get bullied all game long.

If we're going to target another star big, I'd rather it be at PF.  This is where we have the biggest gap today.  Otherwise, adding a stretch 5 that can fit with OO well would be my priority.  Brook Lopez type player -- but those don't grow on trees so I'm not holding my breath there. @NBASupes has mentioned Sengun a lot and I would love to have a player like him.  I just reaallllyyy worry that getting KAT on that massive contract would put a ceiling on this team that is just below championship level.

I love the other moves here as we clearly need POA defense and overall better defensive pieces.  

He's been ass in these playoffs but he was never gonna do well as a 4 with 4 responsibilities. He looked much better as a 5 even in this series for MIN but the team is better without him this year.

I agree about the POA, they are just hard to find. Murray for OG is kinda of the best deal, player for player. 

9 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

So the trade of Murray brings up the question:  if we resigned Murray to a decent contract, would you rather trade him or Trae if you had to choose who goes on the block?

I have a hard time with this one.  I lean towards Murray because of defense and more consistency than Trae, but I also think Trae can even out nicely and play smarter given some more time with Quin.

 

It just depends. 

[Peoriabird]

No metric supports the assertion that Kat is an elite offensive player.

[JeffS17]

42 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

So the trade of Murray brings up the question:  if we resigned Murray to a decent contract, would you rather trade him or Trae if you had to choose who goes on the block?

I have a hard time with this one.  I lean towards Murray because of defense and more consistency than Trae, but I also think Trae can even out nicely and play smarter given some more time with Quin.

 

If Murray is on a team friendly deal, frankly, that makes me want to trade him more because you get more value back.  Trae is a ceiling raiser and we need talent around him -- Murray is more of a floor raiser but not a championship center piece.  Trae's floor game is improving and his playmaking is second to none in the NBA.  Trae's offensive issues can all be solved via coaching, whereas Murray's high dribble pounding and loose handles are core to his game.  I like Murray, but I wouldn't hate it if we trade him for high value player(s)

[AHF]

46 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No metric supports the assertion that Kat is an elite offensive player.

He has the 8th best career TS% in NBA history (behind Curry and Jokic but ahead of Durant and Embiid among active players).

He has the 8th best career Offensive Rating among all active players.

He has 4 seasons in the top 10 in Total Offensive Win Shares.

His team was 8.7 points better in ORTG when he was on the floor in 2021-22; 11.7 points better in ORTG in 2020-21; 12.0 points better in ORTG in 2019-20; 4.9 points better in 2018-19.  (For context, the Warriors were 5.8 points better; 10.3 points better; 5.6 points better; and 10.8 points better with Curry on the floor over the same years.)

In Offensive RAPTOR he was #22 in the league 2018-19, #7 in the league in 2019-20, #23 in 2020-21, and #21 in 2021-22.

Obviously, this season he missed roughly 70% of the year and played out of position so his numbers cumulative or otherwise are a career low.  But that said, I'm curious what metrics don't say he is an outstanding offensive player for his career.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Last thing I'll say is I don't think this is the summer to take big risks.  Coach Quin just got here and we have one year of Murray/Trae playing together.  The most important thing right now is getting better, but we don't necessarily need to make championship or bust moves.  Get close to high 40s wins next season or 50+ if we can, and then try to make a run in the playoffs.  The most important thing to me for this offseason is keeping and extending Saddiq/OO on a reasonable contracts, and getting a new identity under Quin (offense and defense).  Next offseason Murray is the big question mark.

I haven't put this season on the back burner yet.. but I'm willing to spin the block with this team with a small changes. 

• I like the mixture of Trae and DJ as long as we can be more creative. 
• You can easily see the future with JJ, AJ, OO
• Bey is definitely a keeper. 

That means small changes is moving out JC and CC.   CC may be easy because he's a high motor, rebounding, Higher percentage PNR player.   We would only get rid of him for spacing. 

JC... is different.   we just can't find a way to make him work.  His value is in the dumps and he's a lost liter. 

 

 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

His value is in the dumps and he's a lost liter. 

What does this mean D?  I think it is supposed to be loss leader but that is something you give away at a discounted price to obtain a larger and more attractive book of business.  (Like a free month of streaming before you start getting charged $15/month or something).  I'm not sure how that translates to JC.  If the point is just that his value will be much lower after this season, then I fully agree.  His inability to ever fix his perimeter shooting really hurt his offensive production and he put up career lows (or second worst career seasons) in points, free throws, 3pt%, fg%, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks on a per minute basis.  The improvement on positional D in't enough to overcome that kind of drop in productivity across the board.

[Peoriabird]

8th best this past year? Don't think so

[Peoriabird]

Hasn't even been elite in the last 3 seasons so why the deception? Just curious.

[parfait]

How about Vuc as a stretch 5?

He's a free agent this summer. Perhaps some sort of sign and trade in which CC or JC are shipped elsewhere.

[theheroatl]

All this is noise. We need to trade JC and Hunter into better players. Capela too. and yes, the more I see them play the more we need to trade them.

Let JJ, OO develop and bring in Siakam or something.

We need defense and JC and Hunter and Capela have shown that they produce a low tier defense even if they are individually good.

Edited April 24, 2023 by theheroatl

[Peoriabird]

All this is noise. We need to trade JC and Hunter into better players.

So get rid of the players leading the team in +/- in the playoffs 1st? Also you want to get rid of the 3rd leading scorer and best one on one defender after he score 27 points in the last playoff game? Arguably the 2nd best player on the team in the playoffs this year after being the best player on the team in the playoffs last year?  I'd say there is a bit of bias here which much less thought and logic behind those statements.

[macdaddy]

26 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

All this is noise. We need to trade JC and Hunter into better players.

So get rid of the players leading the team in +/- in the playoffs 1st? Also you want to get rid of the 3rd leading scorer and best one on one defender after he score 27 points in the last playoff game? Arguably the 2nd best player on the team in the playoffs this year after being the best player on the team in the playoffs last year?  I'd say there is a bit of bias here which much less thought and logic behind those statements.

How are you figuring he's been the second best player on the team in this series?

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

No metric supports the assertion that Kat is an elite offensive player.

Most of his offensive metrics in previous years. This was a regressed year for him. Badly regressed but his ability still the same for the most part. I don't think he's as explosive. 

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

All this is noise. We need to trade JC and Hunter into better players.

So get rid of the players leading the team in +/- in the playoffs 1st? Also you want to get rid of the 3rd leading scorer and best one on one defender after he score 27 points in the last playoff game? Arguably the 2nd best player on the team in the playoffs this year after being the best player on the team in the playoffs last year?  I'd say there is a bit of bias here which much less thought and logic behind those statements.

We need to keep Hunter. We need more people can defend wings other than Hunter. We only got one. 

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Most of his offensive metrics in previous years. This was a regressed year for him. Badly regressed but his ability still the same for the most part. I don't think he's as explosive. 

We need to keep Hunter. We need more people can defend wings other than Hunter. We only got one. 

I'm not the Hunter fan that you are but i agree.  The issue is that none of Hunter/JC/Capela are good ballhandlers or passers.  If we have a 4 (or 5) who's good at those things then Hunter will be fine.  

[Peoriabird]

How are you figuring he's been the second best player on the team in this series?

Who has played better?

[Carmine]

I just want Collins gone