Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Neither of them offer offensive versatility. They barely do anything beyond big man movement which Edey does way better than they do right now. This must be a joke

Should have added the clarity that Lively on defense, Gafford on offense, not that it some great thing but he can set a pick and operate from the freethrow line and get to the basket. Edey operates from just above the charge circle - EVERY SINGLE TIME and it always from the post position with his back to the basket, no face up game.

It's the same, set a pick, go post up: Static and predictable.

 

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Should have added the clarity that Lively on defense, Gafford on offense, not that it some great thing but he can set a pick and operate from the freethrow line and get to the basket. Edey operates from just above the charge circle - EVERY SINGLE TIME and it always from the post position with his back to the basket, no face up game.

It's the same, set a pick, go post up: Static and predictable.

 

Yep.  Set the pick and then deep seal.  You rarely see him make plays on the move going towards the basket.  NBA teams don’t do that.  

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Should have added the clarity that Lively on defense, Gafford on offense, not that it some great thing but he can set a pick and operate from the freethrow line and get to the basket. Edey operates from just above the charge circle - EVERY SINGLE TIME and it always from the post position with his back to the basket, no face up game.

It's the same, set a pick, go post up: Static and predictable.

 

Gafford has more offensive versatility than Lively, sure but it hasn't been all that impactful till he landed with Luka. He was doing this is Washington for years and getting terrible impact metrics. No shock, life is a lot easier when your ball handler is Luka but still, that matters to me. 

If you think Edey does that every time down, I don't know what to tell you. He literally had a potential 13 screen assists in just the National Championship game but I guess you weren't paying attention to that or his screen assists in general. You can't do that unless you are setting screens and often. 

Sam Vecenie says he's easily the best screener in this draft and Clingan is one of the best to enter. It's just that Edey is the best to enter the NBA draft. He's better than Gobert and Sabonis right now at screening. Way better than Capela and I track CC screening as well as Edey. 

When I here Edey naysayers, this is really their problem 

Poor fluidity on full display. He completely beat his man to the spot but instead of going on and beasting on his man like Shaq, he of course gets fouled but it doesn't look like what you expect with these numbers. 

They don't care that he's relentless. They don't care that his motor, feel, BBIQ, awareness, and movement skills is exceptional. They see this. They see how slow he is on the action and that's where they get hung up. 

This happens a bit more than you would like. It's just the worse one. 

To me, one of the biggest reasons why Purdue were the clear 2nd best team was due to their PnR play and Edey screens. They were more valuable than his post up play 

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  Set the pick and then deep seal.  You rarely see him make plays on the move going towards the basket.  NBA teams don’t do that.  

Yes you do, it happens every game. It's like you never watched Purdue play once this year with a terrible statement like this. They run horns and floppy with Edey more than anything else. 

Edited April 20 by NBASupes

[KB21]

I’m not the only one that’s seeing this.  You are the only person on the planet that believes Edey is a multifaceted offensive player.  

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

you think Edey does that every time down, I don't know what to tell you. He literally had a potential 13 screen assists in just the National Championship game but I guess you weren't paying attention to that or his screen assists in general. You can't do that unless you are setting screens and often. 

Sets a screen, might rescreen, then.......into a post up - that's the majority of his offensive action. On the odd occasion where the ball handler is doubled he gets a lob.

[KB21]

Also, he was not fouled on that play.  The defender just pulled the chair out from under him.  NCAA officials are dumbasses though so…

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sets a screen, might rescreen,

 

then.......into a post up - that's the majority of his offensive action. On the odd occasion where the ball handler is doubled he gets a lob.

That's what you do for horns, floppy and the other sets Purdue constantly runs. 

You just gotta set the screen which is difficult and he does it better than anyone else. 

The Edey post up is their favorite play like the 1-5 PnR with Trae for us. They will create variations to get Edey quality post ups where he has the advantage. That's simply how Purdue plays this year with Edey. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’m not the only one that’s seeing this.  You are the only person on the planet that believes Edey is a multifaceted offensive player.  

 

[KB21]

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's what you do for horns, floppy and the other sets Purdue constantly runs. 

You just gotta set the screen which is difficult and he does it better than anyone else. 

The Edey post up is their favorite play like the 1-5 PnR with Trae for us. They will create variations to get Edey quality post ups where he has the advantage. That's simply how Purdue plays this year with Edey. 

 

 

Yeah, how Purdue plays....not most NBA teams, not the Hawks. He'll see those actions in limited fashion. 

And I think he's gonna get picked a lot once he has to dribble into his move- it's slow and high. I haven't seen much of him being able to pass out of doubles on the dribble. He'll make a pass from a stationary position but not on the move.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

 

SEASON2009-10TEAMKK Vrsac Swisslion

MIN18.9PTS9.00FGM3.50FGA5.67FG%.6183PM0.003PA0.003P%.000FTM2.00FTA2.83FT%.706OFF1.17DEF4.17TRB5.33AST1.17STL0.33BLK1.00TOV2.00PF1.83

TS%.651EFG%.618ORB%8.42DRB%32.69TRB%20.05AST%12.20TOV%22.44STL%0.99BLK%6.83USG%23.01TOTAL S %132.35PPR-6.28PPS1.59ORTG108.2DRTG109.3PER20.21

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

This is a massive difference. 

 

 

[KB21]

There’s also a massive difference in the competition the two faced at the same age.  

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yeah, how Purdue plays....not most NBA teams, not the Hawks. He'll see those actions in limited fashion. 

And I think he's gonna get picked a lot once he has to dribble into his move- it's slow and high. I haven't seen much of him being able to pass out of doubles on the dribble. He'll make a pass from a stationary position but not on the move.

The Hawks run floppy and horns a lot. In fact, with Trae, they run freelance 1-5 PnR which has the same screen and re-sceeen action Purdue does with Smith or Jones with Edey. 

While I doubt we will add a post variation as that's what Purdue has to do, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't post up. We seem Jabari and Bruno do it with Trae. Especially Jabari Parker. We had one of the best offenses in that time period with Jabari post up being a big part of the offense when JC was suspended for steroids.

He has plenty of times he goes up high with the ball. He gets plenty of touches so we have massive sample size to go off of what we like and don't like from his post ups. 

82% percentile ain't great for a NBA prospect from the post but his volume is insane. No one has that. 

We can implement his post ups but we have to ability to focus on the good. Which is positioning, going up high, etc. That's under our control if he's here. 

Most of his buckets are off of 0-1 dribble but we have seen him pass out of doubles a lot more this year. Look at his Illnois game or March Madness games like Gonzaga for example 

 

 

 

 

Feed the post does a really good job of showcasing what Purdue is doing on a game to game basis.

https://m.youtube.com/@FeedthePost/videos

 

[JayBirdHawk]

My biggest Edey conundrum is what he will be able to provide defensively - we cannot afford to have more defensive liabilities. Yes, I get it, he's big so he'll cover some space, he can rebound - but he's going to struggle on switches, in space and rim protection.  The 3 second defensive rule in the NBA (none in college) will have an effect on his paint protection. He's not gonna be able to just stand in paint and wait. He's going to have to vacate and I'm concerned his reaction time to recover when he does will be problematic. His best defensive attribute is drop coverage but we've seen how teams can take advantage. If he's unable to defend at the level of a screen, he'll have to take a seat.

I don't want the Hawks adding more defensive issues they need to work around and solve.

If Edey had true offensive versatility like Embiid/KAT/Jokic - I'd be more amenable to taking him at #10, since he's not, I'll pass. I was always ok taking him with the Kings pick, but alas Kings didn't hold up there end of the deal.

With that - if I'm wrong in my assessment, I'm just wrong. We shall see.

 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There’s also a massive difference in the competition the two faced at the same age.  

Yeah, everyone Boban played is massively better than a clown like Kel'el Ware 

[KB21]

That “clown” will be more valued by NBA scouts and executives than your big slow Edey.  Why?   Because he fits the modern game.  He can move.  He can shoot.  He can switch.  

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My biggest Edey conundrum is what he will be able to provide defensively - we cannot afford to have more defensive liabilities. Yes, I get it, he's big so he'llcover some space, he can rebound - but he's going to struggle on switches, in space and rim prescription.  The 3 second defensive rule in the NBA (none in college) will have an effect on his paint protection. He's not gonna be able to just stand in paint and wait. He's going to have to vacate and I'm concerned his reaction time to recover when he does will be problematic. His best defensive attribute is drop coverage but we've seen how teams can take advantage. If he's unable to defend at the level of a screen, he'll have to take a seat.

I don't want the Hawks adding more defensive issues they need to work around and solve.

If Edey had true offensive versatility like Embiid/KAT/Jokic - I'd be more amenable to taking him at #10, since he's not, I'll pass. I was always ok taking him with the Kings pick, but alas Kings didn't hold up there end of the deal.

With that - if I'm wrong in my assessment, I'm just wrong. We shall see.

 

My biggest argument is, we want KAT. At center, KAT would be a liability for us on defense. Minnesota traded 4 1sts, Kessler, Beasley, and Vando because they felt they needed a center next to KAT. 

Edey is better than KAT at center defensively and you have no quarrels with KAT. 

That said, Edey would be our worse defender as a 5 as CC, OO, and Bruno. We would have to work with him as an overall defender and develop him. He's not NBA ready on that end like Clingan is or what Kessler was. 

That said, we had Dedmon who's a tier better than rookie Edey and Edey isn't far from Dedmon as a drop coverage 5. Edey is better as a drop coverage 5 than Len was for us. Easily better than Damian Jones was for us as a drop coverage 5. 

I don't see him as a defensive liability at the 5 like JC or Jabari was at times. But he will clearly have growing pains as most NBA players do on that end as rookies. That's why we still have CC as the vet. 

Every player has to adjust to the NBA rules. Edey isn't alone in that. You got better defensive schemes in the NBA has he also has better players around him. JJ covers ground exceptionally well. That will help. These are questions every NBA prospect has to answer. You are literally talking about one of the highest feel, awareness, and BBIQ guys in college. Come on, we aren't talking about a JaVale McGee.

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

You don't put these numbers up for no reason. 

He's never going to have the offensive versatility of Embiid, Joker, or KAT. Poor fluidity makes that impossible. 

He already has a define offensive skill set. One which plays perfectly into the strengths of Trae Young. I don't see what's so difficult about this.

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That “clown” will be more valued by NBA scouts and executives than your big slow Edey.  Why?   Because he fits the modern game.  He can move.  He can shoot.  He can switch.  

No he isn't. He's getting grades in the 20-40 range. Just say, you value him more. 

Edited April 21 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

I have made my assessment and I'll let it stand on it's own merit. I'm not taking him at #10.

I'll leave you and KB to continue your futile disagreement 

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My biggest argument is, we want KAT. At center, KAT would be a liability for us on defense. Minnesota traded 4 1sts, Kessler, Beasley, and Vando because they felt they needed a center next to KAT. 

Edey is better than KAT at center defensively and you have no quarrels with KAT. 

That said, Edey would be our worse defender as a 5 as CC, OO, and Bruno. We would have to work with him as an overall defender and develop him. He's not NBA ready on that end like Clingan is or what Kessler was. 

That said, we had Dedmon who's a tier better than rookie Edey and Edey isn't far from Dedmon as a drop coverage 5. Edey is better as a drop coverage 5 than Len was for us. Easily better than Damian Jones was for us as a drop coverage 5. 

I don't see him as a defensive liability at the 5 like JC or Jabari was at times. But he will clearly have growing pains as most NBA players do on that end as rookies. That's why we still have CC as the vet. 

Every player has to adjust to the NBA rules. Edey isn't alone in that. You got better defensive schemes in the NBA has he also has better players around him. JJ covers ground exceptionally well. That will help. These are questions every NBA prospect has to answer. You are literally talking about one of the highest feel, awareness, and BBIQ guys in college. Come on, we aren't talking about a JaVale McGee.

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

You don't put these numbers up for no reason. 

He's never going to have the offensive versatility of Embiid, Joker, or KAT. Poor fluidity makes that impossible. 

He already has a define offensive skill set. One which plays perfectly into the strengths of Trae Young. I don't see what's so difficult about this.

No he isn't. He's getting grades in the 20-40 range. Just say, you value him more. 

Dereck Lively wasn’t being graded as a top 15 pick this time last year either.  In fact, he was coming off a disappointing freshman season at Duke.  
 

Here is another 7’3” center that moves much better than Edey and is a 2025 prospect:

 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I have made my assessment and I'll let it stand on it's own merit. I'm not taking him at #10.

Cool. Ain't no one forcing you to do anything. You already came to this decision months ago. As I said on RealGM, Edey won't be able to change any naysayers opinions. He will only sway neutrals which he has and his believers are already sold on him 

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Dereck Lively wasn’t being graded as a top 15 pick this time last year either.  In fact, he was coming off a disappointing freshman season at Duke.  
 

Here is another 7’3” center that moves much better than Edey and is a 2025 prospect:

 

Cool, lmao. I thought this was gonna be the talented kid going to Duke. Lmao, you always fall in love with random 2nd rounders. 

Edited April 21 by NBASupes