Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This kid could be the best Atlanta Hawk since the GOAT

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-superstar/

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16235135/explaining-kevin-pelton-nba-draft-projection-system

Horford 2.2 WARP and 2.9 HUMBLE

Edey 3.1 WARP

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39906470/nba-draft-2024-projecting-30-best-prospects

It's gonna be insanely hard for him to pass the GOAT but I believe he can do it. 

I got nothing. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I got nothing. 

What if he can help turn Trae into the greatest Atlanta Hawk ever ahead of Al and Nique? 

I would have a lot if I was you. 

Edited April 21 by NBASupes

[KB21]

Everything that is being said about Kel’el Ware was also said about Jalen Johnson.  Not only did Atlanta take him, he’s been their best draft pick since Trae.  They took a risk on his upside.  Thank God for Quin Snyder, because he would have never gotten this development from Nate.  If Cam Reddish had been able to play for Mike Budenholzer or Quin Snyder, he may have realized his talent in Atlanta.  
 

Man!   Ware getting drafted by Atlanta and getting to be coached by Quin and his developmental staff, he could become an absolute two way monster.  He just turned 20.  
 

A front line of Jalen, OO, MoG, and Superman can be special!   All of them can do so many things on offense and defense.  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

What if he can help turn Trae into the greatest Atlanta Hawk ever ahead of Al and Nique? 

I would have a lot if I was you. 

That's what you believe and that's OK.

I don't - and that's OK too.

Just different sides of the same coin.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's what you believe and that's OK.

I don't - and that's OK too.

Just different sides of the same coin.

That's not just what I believe, that's what will come. You gotta believe. I believe.

Do you not want Trae to be the greatest player in Atlanta Hawks history? Lou said it best, Trae should retire a Hawk. Edey will give him that ability to do so with proven accomplishments. 

Say it with me Jay: I Believe! 

Edited April 21 by NBASupes

[AHF]

6 hours ago, KB21 said:

Bigs in the modern NBA aren’t just under the basket scorers.  They need to be able to shoot from the perimeter.  They need to be able to hit the elbow jumper off the short roll.  They need to be able to drive with the ball on close outs.  
 

Everything I just mentioned, Onyeka Okongwu can do.  

And yet OO is 4 years into his pro career and has been a bench player for 3 different coaches including Quin Snyder.  He hasn’t even won a starting job let alone embodied the modern big.

I hope he can seize a starting role next year instead of more year over year regression like this season.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Everything that is being said about Kel’el Ware was also said about Jalen Johnson.  Not only did Atlanta take him, he’s been their best draft pick since Trae.  They took a risk on his upside.  Thank God for Quin Snyder, because he would have never gotten this development from Nate.  If Cam Reddish had been able to play for Mike Budenholzer or Quin Snyder, he may have realized his talent in Atlanta.  
 

Man!   Ware getting drafted by Atlanta and getting to be coached by Quin and his developmental staff, he could become an absolute two way monster.  He just turned 20.  
 

A front line of Jalen, OO, MoG, and Superman can be special!   All of them can do so many things on offense and defense.  

Except JJ was miles more talented than Ware. The talent gap between the two is insanely massive. That's a pretty massive difference and expecting Ware who's a Soph with years of effort, motor, screening, weak, and consistency issues against JJ who was always extremely talented is just foolish. 

I will say, this was a good try. JJ did have effort issues, motor issues, consistency issues, he was physically weak at that stage, and injury concerns, in fact, he still has injury concerns. But that's pretty much it. Ware is talented. JJ was extremely talented. Ware ain't good enough to have these flaws. JJ flaws knocked him from top 10 to being drafted at 19. That's not a good thing for Ware. What does that mean for him? 

Bud had a chance to trade for Cam at Milwaukee and he was like, heck naw! 

Edited April 21 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's not just what I believe, that's what will come. You gotta believe. I believe.

Say it with me Jay: I Believe! 

Eeeeehhhh.....No.

 good try though.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Eeeeehhhh.....No.

 good try though.

I'll get you on board next year. I know you gotta believe it to see it. 

[KB21]

Ware is very talented.  He’s an elite athlete, unlike Edey.  He’s going to push a 40 inch vertical.  His agility is elite.  His change of direction ability is elite.  He can handle the ball and shoot it.  His shooting stroke is very smooth.  He’s got length.  He’s got verticality.  
 

He was 6th on the 2022 rsci top 100.  Dereck Lively was 2nd that year.  

Edited April 21 by KB21

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I'll get you on board next year. I know you gotta believe it to see it. 

I'll be here.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Ware is very talented.  He’s an elite athlete, unlike Edey.  He’s going to push a 40 inch vertical.  His agility is elite.  His change of direction ability is elite.  He can handle the ball and shoot it.  His shooting stroke is very smooth.  He’s got length.  He’s got verticality.  
 

He was 6th on the 2022 rsci top 100.  Dereck Lively was 2nd that year.  

Very talented is a stretch. He's talented. 

No, and Edey isn't an elite athlete either. 

I'll believe it when I see it.

Nope, he's pretty good for his size but overall, it's average.  

His change of direction is top-end, I agree with that. It's his best trait. 

He doesn't do it often. .125 3pt rate is nothing to brag about. Kessler had a .187 3pt rate. Edey can potentially enter this convo in the NBA. It's not enough reps to really claim anything. 

His FT% is 63%. What if I told you, you shooting up promise and all air. When I post Edey's DX tape, you run from it. It's more real then these low volume rates and when he has volume like FT%, it's bad. 

His mechanics are spotty like Cam's. Not consistent like his overall game

He has tremendous length 7'7 wingspan

I can't say he doesn't because I've seen him use verticality but I've seen him be lazy and I've seen him get abused not wanting to battle. 

That's cool. Dariq Whitehead was #1 and Dillion Mitchell was #5. Great HS class...

[NBASupes]

KB, to me, very talented is a high mark

Talented are players like Ware, Horford, Edey, Hunter, JC, and guys like that. Jokic was here as a prospect but he got better every year. His ceiling is never capped. Many busts in this tier.

Very talented are Kemba, Porzingis, Sengun, Steph Curry as a prospect, like Jokic, his ceiling is never capped. A lot of busts in this tier.

Extremely talented is Josh Smith, JJ, Trae, Nique, Melo Ball, and Jaylen Brown. A lot of busts like Bagley, Bamba, etc were in this pool.

Rare talents like Edwards, KAT, Ben Simmons as a prospect, Tatum, Luka, etc. Most of these guys don't bust. 

Elite talents like Bron, Wemby, MJ, Zion even though he ain't there yet. None of them bust, they just disappoint. Oden is the greatest elite talent, bust. 

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Very talented is a stretch. He's talented. 

No, and Edey isn't an elite athlete either. 

I'll believe it when I see it.

Nope, he's pretty good for his size but overall, it's average.  

His change of direction is top-end, I agree with that. It's his best trait. 

He doesn't do it often. .125 3pt rate is nothing to brag about. Kessler had a .187 3pt rate. Edey can potentially enter this convo in the NBA. It's not enough reps to really claim anything. 

His FT% is 63%. What if I told you, you shooting up promise and all air. When I post Edey's DX tape, you run from it. It's more real then these low volume rates and when he has volume like FT%, it's bad. 

His mechanics are spotty like Cam's. Not consistent like his overall game

He has tremendous length 7'7 wingspan

I can't say he doesn't because I've seen him use verticality but I've seen him be lazy and I've seen him get abused not wanting to battle. 

That's cool. Dariq Whitehead was #1 and Dillion Mitchell was #5. Great HS class...

As far as his three point rate goes, he played for old school Mike Woodson.  When he shot them, he hit at 42% overall and 50% in conference games.  So, no.  He didn’t shoot a high volume but he did prove that he can shoot.  That three point rate will increase in the NBA.  He averaged 16 and 10 in conference games as a 19 year old for Indiana.  His freshman numbers were very similar to Dereck Lively’s freshman numbers.  

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

As far as his three point rate goes, he played for old school Mike Woodson.  When he shot them, he hit at 42% overall and 50% in conference games.  So, no.  He didn’t shoot a high volume but he did prove that he can shoot.  That three point rate will increase in the NBA.  He averaged 16 and 10 in conference games as a 19 year old for Indiana.  His freshman numbers were very similar to Dereck Lively’s freshman numbers.  

When I show proof that Edey told Sam Vecenie that Painter doesn't want him shooting at all and it's selfish if he does, you ignore it and say he can't shoot but you will use Woody as an excuse for Ware's 3pt low volume. 

Ware had higher volume as an FR at Oregon and shot 27% from 3. So I am supposed to buy this when you refused to buy Edey's? Help me understand?  

His mechanics are inconsistent. His volume is extremely low. How are you selling this as more than just potential? If you are selling this as potential, I can't say you shouldn't. You should, but this opens the door for this:

 

Not at all. Lively TS was 120 points better

Lively defense was massively superior both seasons

Lively played more MPG and started. 

Lively was a massively better player than Ware last year. 

Lively has a big man movement package like Edey. 

Ware doesn't have that. All Ware is projection-wise is defensive versatility. Offensively, he has nothing he can hang his hat off of other than rim running. 

His screens are terrible. He's a better version of prospect Damian Jones with better defensive versatility but he's weak and screens even worse than Jones out of Vandy. 

He's gonna be terrible. 

[NBASupes]

Comparing this to Lively ya'll

 

 

 

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

When I show proof that Edey told Sam Vecenie that Painter doesn't want him shooting at all and it's selfish if he does, you ignore it and say he can't shoot but you will use Woody as an excuse for Ware's 3pt low volume. 

Ware had higher volume as an FR at Oregon and shot 27% from 3. So I am supposed to buy this when you refused to buy Edey's? Help me understand?  

His mechanics are inconsistent. His volume is extremely low. How are you selling this as more than just potential? If you are selling this as potential, I can't say you shouldn't. You should, but this opens the door for this:

 

Not at all. Lively TS was 120 points better

Lively defense was massively superior both seasons

Lively played more MPG and started. 

Lively was a massively better player than Ware last year. 

Lively has a big man movement package like Edey. 

Ware doesn't have that. All Ware is projection-wise is defensive versatility. Offensively, he has nothing he can hang his hat off of other than rim running. 

His screens are terrible. He's a better version of prospect Damian Jones with better defensive versatility but he's weak and screens even worse than Jones out of Vandy. 

He's gonna be terrible. 

Lively averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds per game as a freshman.  Ware averaged 6 points and 4 rebounds per game.  Both players were major disappointments as freshmen, and while it initially affected Dereck’s draft stock, the NBA still took him a lot higher than Edey would have gone.  

[KB21]

You said the same stuff about JJJ.  Ware isn’t JJJ, but JJJ is his archetype.  
 

I know I’d rather have JJJ than Boban.  

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

Lively averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds per game as a freshman.  Ware averaged 6 points and 4 rebounds per game.  Both players were major disappointments as freshmen, and while it initially affected Dereck’s draft stock, the NBA still took him a lot higher than Edey would have gone.  

Lively was not considered a disappointment by anyone. I am a Duke fan. I have a lot of alums in my family. 

Lively added value was clearly our best player last year. 

[]

It's one thing to go back in forth on a prospect you may not like but when you are talking overall prospects, I put many years into where I earned stripe. I don't just invest in an occasional season. I am fully locked in, especially the last two years, in particular this year. 

[]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

You said the same stuff about JJJ.  Ware isn’t JJJ, but JJJ is his archetype.  
 

I know I’d rather have JJJ than Boban.  

[Strong disagree]

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Lively was not considered a disappointment by anyone. I am a Duke fan. I have a lot of alums in my family. 

Lively added value was clearly our best player last year. 

Bro, if you don't understand Basketball, just say it. You going head-to-head with someone who knows this like it's a piece of cake. 
 

It's one thing to go back in forth on a prospect you may not like but when you are talking overall prospects, I put many years into where I earned stripe. I don't just invest in an occasional season. I am fully locked in, especially the last two years, in particular this year. 

Maybe you should sit this one out. Even with Edey, I felt you were at least knowledgeable about the subject and were willing to study even if I disagree with your assessment. This right now is flat-out embarrassing. I am beating you 45-0 and this is a baseball game. 

Make this 50-0

LOL.  I have mopped the floor with you already with JJJ vs Bagley.  Ware vs Edey will end the same.  
 

And yes.  Dereck Lively had a disappointing freshman season at Duke that rivaled Jalen Johnson’s disappointing freshman season at Duke.  https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-prospect-overview-i-still-like