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Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish


NBASupes

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

😂 Someone needs a timeout.  

You need to be banned. All you do is troll. Be a man and stop acting like a troll. 

This is literally the 5th time you brought up Bagley only to get worked by your own cosign. You brought up Toppin twice in this thread when I never seen you with an opinion on Toppin before. I looked at your history. You didn't say a word about Toppin. So you bringing him up is trolling. Nothing more, nothing less. 

@AHF, I want him out of my thread for good. I am cool with him being the anti Edey voice but not when he's trolling and taking personal shots like a hoe.

I have zero issues with you hating on Edey. Stick to Edey. Leave me out of it. 

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Just now, KB21 said:

I’d be glad to end this thread so I can talk about prospects who are worthy of being picked 10th.  

We are talking about who would be picked at 10th overall. Zach Edey. You can leave bro. I really don't want you here no more. Ain't you in that other thread. Stay there. 

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

There will be no ring kissin', dude.

You get to work squashin your beef with kb. 

It's was a joke, kg01, have a sense of humor my brother. Why so anal?

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On 4/20/2024 at 4:05 AM, NBASupes said:

People keep wanting to know, what is Edey in general? I've posted it here but it's way deep into the thread. 

 

Best PPP players: 

Volume:  https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?CF=POSS*GE*3&dir=D&sort=POSS 

Vooch

PPP: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?CF=POSS*GE*1.5&dir=D&sort=PPP

JC

Percentile: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?SeasonYear=2023-24

Myles Turner who wasn't listed till Haliburton came since 19-20. Since Hali came, his stats on PnR roll has gone off the roof.

Edey PPP: 1.54 which would lead the NBA. 

 

 

I am a big fan of these videos as they just get straight to the synergy stats. We see a 3% increase in scoring from PnR and cuts. from 13 to 16%. I wish he would show screen assists. This is something the NBA tracks but Edey is ELITE at setting screens and that's probably one of his best traits as an NBA prospect. Even though we are a team that sets a lot of screens from our bigs, their screen assists totals are okay, especially Clint but he's regressed in this area. Gobert and Sabonis are the elite screeners in the NBA and Edey has the screens to join them as he likes the contact. I believe it's due to his hockey background of being a defenseman. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=SCREEN_AST_PTS

 

 

To the esteemed scouts and front office personnel of the Hawks, I implore you to thoroughly examine Zach Edey’s game. Engage in comprehensive film study, converse with his coaches, and listen to his interviews. It’s crucial to understand his game beyond the surface level. Dismissing him as merely a low post big would be a disservice to his skill set.

This year, observe Trae’s performance closely. You’ll notice a significant increase in impact compared to previous years, despite this being arguably the best season of his career. My scouting report, along with other brief reports on Edey, should provide valuable insights. I firmly believe that, except for Wemby, there isn’t another player from the last five drafts who would be a better fit for this team, especially alongside Trae.

Here are some key attributes of Edey’s game:

  1. Exceptional movement for a big man of his size
  2. Superior mental acuity, including basketball IQ, feel for the game, and awareness
  3. An athletic freak for his size (7’4, 306 lbs) - Look at his NBA combine numbers.
  4. Outstanding hand skills - Elite catch radius
  5. Excellent body control for his size - Can finish in traffic and draw fouls while finishing
  6. High-energy player with a relentless motor 
  7. Consistent scorer - His shot tendency is in the 95+ range which is good but it can be a bad thing but good for the Hawks.
  8. Constant movement in and around the post
  9. Top-tier screen setter, a potential leader in screen assists given sufficient minutes. His ability to reset and want to set elite screens is infectious as Dennis Rodman thirsts for rebounds.
  10. Proficient roller as a pick-and-roll big. 1.54 PPP would lead the NBA
  11. Elite helper who makes life easier on his primary ball handler. - Helper is a  

Just listen to this: 

I’ve been scouting big men for over two decades. Only a handful truly comprehend their role at this level and understand their value.

 

The metrics support this assessment. Even a cursory glance at Tankathon reveals that Edey is in a league of his own: 

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey 

You can also compare him with some of the greats: 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--alonzo-mourning--shaquille-o-neal--tim-duncan--al-horford 

Edey’s relentless motor, reminiscent of Alonzo Mourning’s during his college and NBA days, sets him apart.

Edey may not be the right fit for every team, but he is for us. We have a player who utilizes his center more than anyone else in NBA history. Let’s seize this opportunity. Draft Edey, and let’s aim for championship contention for the next decade while extending Trae’s career.

 

My NBA short and sweet offensive scouting report on Edey: 

Current: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. However, his fluidity limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low post.

Future: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. His fluidity, however, limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low-post, with potential for catch and shoot.

Great post for anyone wanting more details on Edey and don't want to go through 60+ pages. 

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15 hours ago, NBASupes said:

There is no one in the NBA as offensive versatility as KAT in the NBA at the 4 or 5 spot. 

He can do literally everything. He only has one movement package but he has everything else. 

Can create for himself, others, great screener when he used to do it, score at all levels, dribble drive, PnR, PnP, DHOs, post-ups, shoot at an elite rate, man... he can do everything. 

As Jeff Teague said, no one is as talented as KAT offensively. It's the mentality that's an issue. He doesn't have that mental edge. Trae got it, he just doesn't have the size or measurements. But he got that it factor. He wants it. KAT is like a puppy, he doesn't like that. He's perfectly fine in this current role where Ant is the alpha, Gobert is the alpha on D, and he just plays a role like Conley. 

Edey is something else offensively as an off-ball prospect, I think you should realize that even if you gotta see it at this level to believe it. 

Here are some key attributes of Edey’s game:

  1. Exceptional movement for a big man of his size - Two movement packages (Low post movement - First since LA Shaq, and big man movement which is common in the modern NBA) 
  2. Superior mental acuity, including basketball IQ, feel for the game, and awareness
  3. An athletic freak for his size (7’4, 306 lbs) - Look at his NBA combine numbers. KB voice - OO is way more athletic, Supes. I know but OO is outweighed by 55 pounds and 8 inches shorter. That's the same difference between Trae and JJ.
  4. Outstanding hand skills - Elite catch radius
  5. He has excellent body control for his size - Can finish in traffic and draw fouls while finishing
  6. High-energy player with a relentless motor 
  7. Consistent scorer - His shot tendency is in the 95+ range which is good but it can be a bad thing but good for the Hawks.
  8. Constant movement in and around the post
  9. Top-tier screen setter, a potential leader in screen assists given sufficient minutes. His ability to reset and want to set elite screens is infectious as Dennis Rodman thirsts for rebounds.
  10. Proficient roller as a pick-and-roll big. 1.54 PPP would lead the NBA
  11. Elite helper who makes life easier on his primary ball handler. - An elite helper is a big man, exclusively a true center in the modern NBA who has elite movement + Screening + Feel for the game + Awareness + BBIQ + Finishing = Elite Helper. These guys make the game a lot easier for their teammates but it's hard for their teammates to explain why they are so damn helpful. They just say, he knows how to play the game but this is a clear definition for you. 

Offensive strengths of Edey.

Now this thread is back on track. 

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This takes us to this year’s NBA Draft, and the two big man sensations competing in the men’s NCAA Tournament championship on Monday night. That duo, Purdue’s Zach Edey and Connecticut’s Donovan Clingan, are two of the most dominant players in recent college annals.

 

You can see this any number of ways, including, uh, watching the games, but an easy shorthand to see their dominance is the fact that they are first and second in college basketball in PER by miles and miles, with Edey’s unfathomable 39.7 topping the NCAA and Clingan’s 35.7 mark, ranking second. Those are the two highest marks by any NCAA player since Williamson’s 40.8 in 2018-19 at Duke … with the exception of Edey’s 40.2 in 2022-23.

 

The other standout stat for these two gentlemen is their sheer size. They aren’t just tall; they’re big, with solid frames and thick calves. Edey is 7-4 and 300 pounds; Clingan is 7-2, 280.

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The one thing you can see in the tape for Edey and Clingan is that, if you are going to allow them to just hang out in the paint on defense, you might as well not bother showing up at all. It’s just too easy for them.

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Nonetheless, Clingan is the more nimble and athletic of the two, showing more ability to step out on the perimeter, run the floor and track smaller players off the dribble. That particularly stood out in his epic eight-block tournament performance against Northwestern, where he was unfazed having to switch onto guards. He’ll have to do the same against faster, more skilled NBA players working with more space and (mostly) better schemes, but here’s an example of his work in the Illinois game. Clingan has his feet at the 3-point line when Terrance Shannon begins his move, stays with Shannon’s inside-out move and slides his feet to meet him at the rim before denying the shot.

 

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Meanwhile, Edey is of an even more extreme archetype — even bigger, even slower, even more dependent on being in the right system with a drop coverage on defense and a post-friendly offense.

 

That said, the Yao parallels here are even stronger. Like Yao, Edey has a high release and is a very good short-range shooter, a combination that makes his post-ups an automatic bucket at the college level. He could probably extend his range too; he shoots 70.6 percent from the free-throw line for his career and has clean mechanics, although he could get more arc on it. Additionally, as opponents have become brazen about doubling him, he’s become better at reading what’s happening and getting the ball to the right spot.

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Thus, offense isn’t the thing keeping scouts up at night. Yes, he’ll have to make some adjustments to play in more pick-and-rolls and fewer structured post-ups. Check out this amazing stat: In just 37 college games, he has more post-ups than any player in the NBA this year.

However, his size alone makes him an obvious lob threat, and his coordination, strength and skill on top of that makes him an elite finisher despite lacking electric hops.

Defensively? That is the entire battle. This isn’t necessarily a binary yes-no thing either. There are levels to this.

Edey’s statistical profile certainly has some red flags in it, starting with the fact that he only had 11 steals the entire season, or about 0.5 per 100 possessions. While 7-4 centers aren’t expected to be thieving ball hawks, that’s still a staggeringly low rate even for a center, in a category that has historically had indicator value for the next level.

Edey has also used his size to protect the rim much differently than Clingan, opting for an extreme low risk strategy that prioritizes avoiding foul trouble. Edey has more blocks than fouls this season, just like Clingan; the difference is that Clingan is nearly twice as likely to do either, per possession. The stats will show an unusually low block rate for his size (4.0 per 100), but if Edey isn’t an indispensable star at the next level, it also means he could likely ramp that up quite a bit.

Every game Edey plays in will result in the opponent trying to isolate him in space and use superior speed against his size. (He’ll also be vulnerable in transition.) However, that makes him no different from most centers who take the floor in an NBA game on any given night.

Thus, we get back to levels of vulnerability. It’s one thing to say mobility issues on the defensive end might prevent Edey from becoming a star at the next level, somebody who might be worth a top-five pick. It’s quite another, however, to say the issue would be so egregious that it would render him unplayable, especially given his offensive output.

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There are a great many bigs who operate somewhere between those extremes, especially in the regular season, when most teams play drop coverage fairly regularly. Many of those bigs get run off the court at some point in the postseason; if Edey and Clingan are no different from them, that limits the value proposition on taking one with a high lottery pick, perhaps … but it doesn’t make them undraftable. There’s a certain point in the draft where fretting over Edey being played off the court in a playoff series is silliness compared to the upside of having a potential 20-point scorer to plug into the frontcourt.

 

Of course, we can’t make this too reductive either. In the case of both Clingan and Edey, it isn’t just their size and mobility that impact their pro hopes. Clingan’s medical report will be important given that he’s missed time with multiple foot injuries, for instance. And in Edey’s case, his joining the league at age 22 this fall is a bit of a red flag given that essentially every good center of recent ilk has been picked by age 20.

 

This was a great article by John. It was fair and balanced and it has real questions. 

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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/where-does-zach-edey-rank-all-time-college-players-elite-company/109e64c6e21cf5e9f84f2279

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Each of those players appeared at least once in the NCAA Final Four, and now Edey has joined them with the Purdue Boilermakers – having scored 41 points to help defeat Tennessee in the regional final.

 

MORE: Edey helps Purdue erase decades of disappointment with Final Four berth

 

 

So why not pose the inevitable question: How high up the ladder of college basketball’s all-time greats has Zach Edey climbed – and how many more rungs might be available to him if he were to lead the Boilers to a championship win on Monday night?

 

“I think the biggest problem right now is people look at: Oh, he’s not the NBA prospect. Which is really sad,” Big Ten Network analyst and former Illinois coach Bruce Weber told The Sporting News. “What he’s done consistently, two years in a row and now getting them here – and obviously if he can win Monday night, it would put him with that elite group.

 

“He is a special, special player in the history of our game.”

 

The greatest challenge is to answer how special, but the group of players in that multi-time player of the year category all would rank inarguably among the sport’s giants.

 

SN's MARCH MADNESS HQ

Live NCAA bracket news | TV schedule | Printable PDF

 

Where does Zach Edey rank among all-time greats?

In October 2002, The Sporting News published my second book on the sport, titled “Legends of College Basketball.” The idea was to compile a list of the top 100 players in the game’s history and present essays about each of their accomplishments and impact.

 

When I was on the recruiting trail during the summer I wrote the book, I would encounter coaches who would ask what I’d been up to during the offseason. When I described the project, the inevitable response I received: “Who’s No. 2 after Kareem?”

 

Indeed, Abdul-Jabbar’s career at UCLA made him an easy choice for No. 1. The rest of the top 10, in order: Walton; Robertson; Bill Russell, San Francisco; Pete Maravich, LSU; David Thompson, NC State; Elvin Hayes, Houston; Larry Bird, Indiana State; Lucas and Christian Laettner, Duke.

 

Edey is not cracking that list, even if he averages 75 points per game at his first and only Final Four.

 

MORE: Against the spread picks for Purdue-NC State, UConn-South Carolina

 

As he approaches the end of a second consecutive season in which he stands as unanimous national Player of the Year, though, he has authored a legacy that would place him very prominently on that top 100 list if “Legends” ever were to be updated.

 

In the years since, the “one-and-done” phenomenon has limited the legacies of many who were gifted enough to place on that list: Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Zion Williamson, Greg Oden. Such players as Tyler Hansbrough of North Carolina, Jameer Nelson of Saint Joseph’s, Jalen Brunson of Villanova and Joakim Noah of Florida probably would find a place in the top 100.

 

Edey, though, likely would be in the neighborhood of the top 35 as it stands.

 

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Each of those players appeared at least once in the NCAA Final Four, and now Edey has joined them with the Purdue Boilermakers – having scored 41 points to help defeat Tennessee in the regional final.

 

MORE: Edey helps Purdue erase decades of disappointment with Final Four berth

 

 

So why not pose the inevitable question: How high up the ladder of college basketball’s all-time greats has Zach Edey climbed – and how many more rungs might be available to him if he were to lead the Boilers to a championship win on Monday night?

 

“I think the biggest problem right now is people look at: Oh, he’s not the NBA prospect. Which is really sad,” Big Ten Network analyst and former Illinois coach Bruce Weber told The Sporting News. “What he’s done consistently, two years in a row and now getting them here – and obviously if he can win Monday night, it would put him with that elite group.

 

“He is a special, special player in the history of our game.”

 

The greatest challenge is to answer how special, but the group of players in that multi-time player of the year category all would rank inarguably among the sport’s giants.

 

SN's MARCH MADNESS HQ

Live NCAA bracket news | TV schedule | Printable PDF

 

Where does Zach Edey rank among all-time greats?

In October 2002, The Sporting News published my second book on the sport, titled “Legends of College Basketball.” The idea was to compile a list of the top 100 players in the game’s history and present essays about each of their accomplishments and impact.

 

When I was on the recruiting trail during the summer I wrote the book, I would encounter coaches who would ask what I’d been up to during the offseason. When I described the project, the inevitable response I received: “Who’s No. 2 after Kareem?”

 

Indeed, Abdul-Jabbar’s career at UCLA made him an easy choice for No. 1. The rest of the top 10, in order: Walton; Robertson; Bill Russell, San Francisco; Pete Maravich, LSU; David Thompson, NC State; Elvin Hayes, Houston; Larry Bird, Indiana State; Lucas and Christian Laettner, Duke.

 

Edey is not cracking that list, even if he averages 75 points per game at his first and only Final Four.

 

MORE: Against the spread picks for Purdue-NC State, UConn-South Carolina

 

As he approaches the end of a second consecutive season in which he stands as unanimous national Player of the Year, though, he has authored a legacy that would place him very prominently on that top 100 list if “Legends” ever were to be updated.

 

In the years since, the “one-and-done” phenomenon has limited the legacies of many who were gifted enough to place on that list: Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Zion Williamson, Greg Oden. Such players as Tyler Hansbrough of North Carolina, Jameer Nelson of Saint Joseph’s, Jalen Brunson of Villanova and Joakim Noah of Florida probably would find a place in the top 100.

 

Edey, though, likely would be in the neighborhood of the top 35 as it stands.

 

And a win Monday night would push him to the border of the top 20.

 

Zach Edey By The Numbers

Season PPG RPG BPG FG%

2020-21 8.7 4.4 1.1 59.7

2021-22 14.4 7.7 1.2 64.8

2022-23 22.3 12.9 2.1 60.7

2023-24 25.0 12.2 2.2 62.4

“What he’s accomplished is extraordinary. His imprint on the Purdue program and their success is extraordinary,” legendary analyst Bill Raftery, who’ll call the Final Four for Turner Sports, told TSN. “He doesn’t get the recognition because I don’t think he’s as athletic as the others, or as pretty to watch, and I think big guys always have something to prove to the rest of us mere mortals.”

 

MORE: Zach Edey, Caitlin Clark try to end Big Ten title drought

 

One of the remarkable elements of Edey’s presence in this discussion is that every other one of the Player of the Year repeaters left high school already a legend. There’s a documentary about what Robertson meant to Crispus Attucks’s Indiana state title and what that title meant to the sport. When Abdul-Jabbar was at Power Memorial High, he was known to basketball fans from coast to coast. Every major power from North Carolina to Kentucky and beyond wanted Sampson. Edey was ranked No. 33 in the 2022 recruiting class – among state of Florida prospects. Wait, he was ranked No. 75 – at the center position.

 

In reality, Edey was considered to be No. 436 in his class.

 

Late to the sport, more interested in baseball and hockey growing up in Toronto, he attended IMG Academy when he chose to get serious about basketball as a high school sophomore. He played on the school’s second team, called IMG Blue, while Armando Bacot and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl were the bigs on the “varsity”.

 

Now, Edey stands with 2,459 career points and 1,299 rebounds, both figures third all-time in the Big Ten Conference. He has scored more points than Abdul-Jabbar, Walton or Sampson; the first two played when freshmen were ineligible, but Walton would not have matched Edey even by repeating his most productive season.

 

“Those great names you’re talking about, they sort of did more things in peoples’ minds,” Raftery said. “He’s worked on his game and raised it to an extraordinary level. He’s certainly competitive.

This is probably the biggest part of the article

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“I think people are reluctant to give him his due. He doesn’t have a spin-dribble. He doesn’t have a jumpshot. He’s not floating through the air. But every defensive scheme has been used, and he’s been capable of countering with a counter move, or competing against some of the great coaches in the game. You can’t do the same things against him.”

Facts!

Read the MLB article and where Edey rank all time back to back for perspective 

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https://theathletic.com/5382421/2024/04/01/purdue-matt-painter-zach-edey-final-four?source=user-shared-article

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With under four minutes to go and Purdue leading 61-60, and Edey having scored 12 straight points, the Boilers got into their offense for a crucial possession. With Loyer and Edey stacked as screeners atop the lane, Smith drove hard down the right side of the lane. On an island, Tennessee center J.P. Estrella was stuck picking between giving Smith a clear layup or leaving Edey. Jumping to block Smith’s shot, Estrella could only watch as the ball passed in front of him to the open, waiting hands of Edey. The dunk gave Purdue a three-point lead with 3:22 to go.

 

Following a missed Knecht 3 on the other end, Smith again went to work. This time, after some sequencing, Edey stepped out to the perimeter for a ball screen, springing Smith down the right side, again. This time, as Tennessee’s Zakai Zeigler sagged, Smith kicked the ball to the man he left, Jones, who stepped into a dagger 3-pointer. Purdue up, 66-60, 2:40 to go.

 

“Do they want to stay with us when we drive, and we’ll shoot the layup, or stay with (Edey)?” Smith said of the Boilers’ confounding attack. “Pick your poison there.”

 

Considering Edey as a poison is an interesting thought exercise. There’s no rapid result in poisoning. A proper poisoning is schemed, meticulously administered and mercilessly effective. In Edey, the uninformed see a monster and assume his production is based only on size and power. In reality, his every movement is created and calculated from Painter’s beautiful mind.

 

Against Tennessee, according to an unofficial tabulation, Purdue created 40 post touches for Edey out of offensive sets. This is despite Tennessee doing all things imaginable to prevent such entry passes. Those 40 touches produced all 13 of Edey’s made field goals, a bulk of his 15(!) fouls drawn and six missed shots, while he passed out of the rest (often getting the ball back).

“The way he moves Zach, the pick-and-roll stuff, the fake-dribble handoff play,” Hummel said of Painter after the game, “that’s high-level stuff. He’s just playing chess out there.”

 

The rest of Edey’s damage came on the glass. This, to be clear, was absolutely a product of size and power. Five offensive rebounds, countless tip-outs. Purdue rebounded nearly 45 percent of its misses. That this game ended as the Boilers’ worst 3-pointing performance of the season — 3-of-15, 20 percent — went almost unnoticed thanks to 13 offensive rebounds in a 67-possession game.

 

Edey, in the end, lived up to his legend. In his 136th game at Purdue, and the biggest game the program has played since 1980, he set a new career-high with 40 points. He made 13 field goals He made 14 free throws. He grabbed 16 rebounds. He played 39 minutes and 27 seconds.

 

He also, appropriately, delivered the eulogy. After air-balling a foul shot with Purdue leading late and Tennessee looking to extend the game, Edey walked down the floor with his head slung. Teammate Mason Gillis approached from his left and gave a nudge. Edey looked at him, shook his head, and said, only, “I’m good.”

 

The next play, with the Vols looking to cut Purdue’s lead to two or three with under 40 seconds left, Edey met Knecht — star v. star, alpha v. alpha — and swatted away the shot and sealed the game.

 

As the final horn sounded, unsure what else to do, Edey cut the line, stepping in front of Tennessee coach Rick Barnes to hug his head coach. He held tight. Painter might have a collapsed lung from such a squeeze, but it was worth it.

 

“I get to pay him back,” said Edey, whose scholarship list out of high school was fairly light for a player currently awaiting his second shipment of national player of the year awards. “There were so many coaches that overlooked me. Name a program, I can name a coach that looked over me.”

 

 

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Tennessee fans will likely bemoan the officiating. Understandably. The Vols were called for 25 fouls, compared to Purdue’s 12, while Edey drew 16 and was called for one. His 22 free-throw attempts were double what Tennessee shot as a team (11). It was a very similar story when the two teams met earlier this year when Purdue notched a win in the Maui Invitational.

 

Barnes, though, stressed afterward that he did not blame the officiating. Edey, he said, is both unique and exceedingly difficult to officiate, and what was done, was done.

 

4 minutes ago, swanlee said:

So do we have a legit chance to draft Edey given our current draft position? 

Yes, his ceiling is at 9. Floor is 24. Wide range which is normal for a draft like this. 

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6 minutes ago, swanlee said:

So do we have a legit chance to draft Edey given our current draft position? 

He will 100% be there.  The question is whether you want to take such a limited player whose upside is as a situational reserve in the NBA with the 10th pick.  

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He will 100% be there.  The question is whether you want to take such a limited player whose upside is as a situational reserve in the NBA with the 10th pick.  

I thought you were done here? Instead you just fester.

@AHF

Edited by NBASupes
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