Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

But the speaking in absolutes on both sides is wild. 

[KB21]

So, how many times has the NBA passed in taking this supremely talented and super athletic big that will change how the game is played?   Three?  Hmm.  That begs the question as to why the league has passed on such a game changing, positionally defining player.  

[Final_quest]

I’m not convinced either way. 
Maybe I’ll check out the Purdue forum.  Probably 3000 pages to read over there.

[KB21]

Maybe we can trade for Oscar Tshiebwe and Luka Garza as well.  

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, how many times has the NBA passed in taking this supremely talented and super athletic big that will change how the game is played?   Three?  Hmm.  That begs the question as to why the league has passed on such a game changing, positionally defining player.  

I know you really don't care but I'll answer this for those who are in the middle

1. He's not supremely talented or super athletic. He's a freak athlete for is size but he's still a below-average athlete for his position. He's talented but he's not very talented, damn sure not extremely talented, nor is he a rare talent much less a generational talent like LeBron, MJ, or Wemby. 

2. Jay Bilas said on College Gameday the most improved player last year was Zach Edey and this year, is Zach Edey. What about as a Soph? Trevion Williams https://www.tankathon.com/players/trevion-williams. Rated 9th overall. One of the best-returning players in the nation. Edey rated  37th best player in college basketball after a great U19 tourney: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-basketball/jason-mcintyres-top-50-college-basketball-players-for-the-2021-22-season. Edey beat him out for the job. One of the 10 best players, he beat out as a Soph. The video does a good job of covering his Soph year. 

Edey has been vastly improving every single year from his HS year where he was 436 in the nation. 

 

Junior year - He significantly improved again but like the previous year, really didn't improve in the area the NBA loves outside of being a roller and while he was an excellent screener, he lacked screen versatility and as well as stamina in space. This meant that while he was more than NBA-ready as a traditional offensive big, he was not modern at all. 

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/edey-does-it-projecting-zach-edey

Senior Year - The gap has been massive. Here is all of the area he massively improved. 

Mobility all around went up. 

Defensively, he improved his mobility to the point where he was guarding in space and wasn't a liability. He wasn't good at it but he wasn't a liability. It seems minor but he's functional as a drop coverage 5 now and wasn't last year. That helps a lot in terms of him even being able to stay on the floor. 

Offensively - Became an elite screener. 5s have to be at least good screeners or you can't start in today's NBA unless you are a defensive specialist who's a freak on that end. While he was excellent at screening last year, lacked screen versatility. His volume went up as well. 

His rolling has gotten a lot smarter. He reads his PG exceptionally well and clearly understands where to roll. A lot of bigs just explode off a screen and rim run but that limits a PnR ball handler option. An elite roller must have tremendous patience, awareness, feel, and BBIQ to know where to go off the ball. You can't be a turkey either, that's of no help to the ball handler.

This has turned him into an elite helper: An elite helper is a big man, exclusively a true center in the modern NBA who has elite movement + Screening + Feel for the game + Awareness + BBIQ + Finishing = Elite Helper. He was a good helper last year, but he's elite now. 

That's pretty much it. Everything else looks the same but it wasn't that valuable honestly. He had a tremendous motor, an elite focus for possession by possession basketball, he has been a great athlete for his size, and while poor fluidity which severely hampers him, and the elite mental trifecta for a hooper which is BBIQ, feel for the game, and awareness as a junior was already there. 

 

The reason you see his stock continuing to go up is that he keeps getting significantly better. He's only been playing Basketball for 6 years so he's still fairly new and he does everything right. He tags, he's boxes out. He screens with a purpose. He cares about a lot of elements of the game that most players just don't give a damn about anymore. Edey is unique. He plays the game, the right way. 

 

 

[KB21]

To be an elite PnR roller, you have to be slow with your rolling.  Literally can’t make this shit up.  Explosive rim running is no good.  

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

 To be an elite PnR roller, you have to be slow with your rolling.  Literally can’t make this shit up.  Explosive rim running is no good.  

Where are you seeing the claim that explosive rim running is bad or that you can’t be elite as a PNR roller with elite athleticism?  I’ve seen Supes critiquing CC for the loss of explosion / athleticism and how it has impacted his game.  The players he has listed as being generational are almost all elite athletes like Shaq, Wemby, LeBron, etc.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Where are you seeing the claim that explosive rim running is bad or that you can’t be elite as a PNR roller with elite athleticism?  I’ve seen Supes critiquing CC for the loss of explosion / athleticism and how it has impacted his game.  The players he has listed as being generational are almost all elite athletes like Shaq, Wemby, LeBron, etc.

He very clearly stated that some bigs just explode off the screen and rim run and that it limits the options for the handler.  

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He very clearly stated that some bigs just explode off the screen and rim run and that it limits the options for the handler.  

I don’t think that is a fair reading of his posts.  Feels like you aren’t steelmanning yet.  Doing so will lead to better conversations and fewer comments that amount to expressions of incredulity with little or no substantive content.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Where are you seeing the claim that explosive rim running is bad or that you can’t be elite as a PNR roller with elite athleticism?  I’ve seen Supes critiquing CC for the loss of explosion / athleticism and how it has impacted his game.  The players he has listed as being generational are almost all elite athletes like Shaq, Wemby, LeBron, etc.

I don't understand his critique. No where did I state explosive rim running is bad. I posted Dereck Lively a few posts ago. He is one of the most mature PnR rollers in the NBA and he uses speed and explosiveness to get it done. Look at this: He showcased patience, feel, and awareness while using his explosiveness and speed to his advantage. As quick as JC used to be especially off the slip, he was still very patience and aware of where to roll, when to hold back, and give his PnR ball handler leverage. These little things matter, especially when you have a PnR genius like Luka or the best I've ever seen, Trae. 

The most frequently used PnR rollers in the NBA by a mile is Vucevic and he's a mature roller who uses feel. It's been this way for years. There is more than one way to skin the cat. 

I talk about all of the time how CC's loss in athleticism means a lot more of his touches are contested and he has to finish around the rim in traffic. Guess what that means for CC who always had a poor touch and mediocre hands. He's become one of the worst PnR finishers in the NBA by a mile. 

Vucevic in the PnR. (2021)

Edited April 23 by NBASupes

[KB21]

Vucevic is in the 47th percentile as a PNR finisher.  For comparison, OO is in the 84th percentile as a finisher in the PNR.  

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Vucevic is in the 47th percentile as a PNR finisher.  For comparison, OO is in the 84th percentile as a finisher in the PNR.  

Your point? 

[KB21]

Should be apparent.  You are using Vucevic as an example of the type of PNR finisher Edey can be.  Vucevic is not athletic.  It obviously affects his ability to finish because he’s a worse finisher than Clint is.  
 

What Vucevic has going for him is that he ca shoot the three point shot.  

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Should be apparent.  You are using Vucevic as an example of the type of PNR finisher Edey can be.  Vucevic is not athletic.  It obviously affects his ability to finish because he’s a worse finisher than Clint is.  
 

What Vucevic has going for him is that he ca shoot the three point shot.  

It's not apparent. 

This is the worst attempt at trolling I've ever seen. Do better. 

[NBASupes]

@AHF, I can't with this dude. It doesn't even try. 

I am just going to block him again. 

[marco102]

Just now, NBASupes said:

@AHF, I can't with this dude. It doesn't even try. 

I am just going to block him again. 

You fought a good fight Supes. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

You fought a good fight Supes. 

I wasn't even trying to fight him. I was just trying to have a normal dialogue. 

[KB21]

17 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You fought a good fight Supes. 

He gets mad when his examples get called out because they don’t show what he thinks they do.  
 

He has really gone to extremes in n attempt to make Edey into something he isn’t, which is a modern big.  

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He gets mad when his examples get called out because they don’t show what he thinks they do.  
 

He has really gone to extremes in n attempt to make Edey into something he isn’t, which is a modern big.  

For a doctor, you gotta to do better than this. You shouldn't be reading too deep into things. I was just giving you examples of different types. That's it. I wasn't making a comparison to anyone. I thought this would be obvious to anyone but it's not to you. 

I am not trying to trick you. I don't know why you are the way you are but it doesn't make sense. 

Let me use your profession. If someone comes in sick. They may have a cough, that doesn't mean they are telling you they are like your patient who came in eariler at 1pm who had COVID. They could just simply have a migrane and we aren't sure what the cause is yet. 

Come on man. You are better than this. 

Edited April 23 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

 

If it's not directly connected to leadership in the NBA where they get all the data. Don't bother believing them is my opinion.