Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[macdaddy]

I don't have a horse in this race and i know you guys have been going back and forth for a while. 

For the center position, particularly backup C, i'm definitely taking a chance on the tallest guy in the whole league who might be a little slow.  He's not a stiff.  He's not a guy who really just wants to be a wing.  Get him while we don't have to pay him much and see what happens.   

[KB21]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I don't have a horse in this race and i know you guys have been going back and forth for a while. 

For the center position, particularly backup C, i'm definitely taking a chance on the tallest guy in the whole league who might be a little slow.  He's not a stiff.  He's not a guy who really just wants to be a wing.  Get him while we don't have to pay him much and see what happens.   

Waste of a lottery pick when long term potential starting players could be drafted.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I don't have a horse in this race and i know you guys have been going back and forth for a while. 

For the center position, particularly backup C, i'm definitely taking a chance on the tallest guy in the whole league who might be a little slow.  He's not a stiff.  He's not a guy who really just wants to be a wing.  Get him while we don't have to pay him much and see what happens.   

It's not a real back and forth. It's one person seeing this player as the fix to all our critical offensive flaws and it's the other guy seeing him as a worse Boban. 

I have him as this:

Here are some key attributes of Edey’s game:

1. Exceptional movement for a big man of his size - Two movement packages (Low post movement - First since LA Shaq, and big man movement which is common in the modern NBA) 

2. Superior mental acuity, including basketball IQ, feel for the game, and awareness

3. An athletic freak for his size (7’4, 306 lbs) - Look at his NBA combine numbers. KB voice - OO is way more athletic, Supes. I know but OO is outweighed by 55 pounds and 8 inches shorter. That's the same difference between Trae and JJ.

4. Outstanding hand skills - Elite catch radius

5. He has excellent body control for his size - Can finish in traffic and draw fouls while finishing

6. High-energy player with a relentless motor 

7. Consistent scorer - His shot tendency is in the 95+ range which is good but it can be a bad thing but good for the Hawks.

8. Constant movement in and around the post

9. Top-tier screen setter, a potential leader in screen assists given sufficient minutes. His ability to reset and want to set elite screens is infectious as Dennis Rodman thirsts for rebounds.

10. Proficient roller as a pick-and-roll big. 1.54 PPP would lead the NBA

11. Elite helper who makes life easier on his primary ball handler. - An elite helper is a big man, exclusively a true center in the modern NBA who has elite movement + Screening + Feel for the game + Awareness + BBIQ + Finishing = Elite Helper. These guys make the game a lot easier for their teammates but it's hard for their teammates to explain why they are so damn helpful. They just say, he knows how to play the game but this is a clear definition for you. 

Whereas KB thinks this 

Slow, plodding center, does everything slow, he's extremely slow, can't move, no skills, bad defense, nothing he did in college is real. He's worse than. Boban. Tacko Fall is better. Will never draft in a million years. 

So that's why he's in here like his life depends on this because he's trying to match my passion. 

One of us thinks passing on him will destroy the franchise unless they get Clingan who's a lesser fit with Trae but safer pick overall 

The other thinks, Edey will destroy the franchise if he is the pick. 

We are on complete opposite spectrums. 

[ ]

This is why we are likely going to have a thread at 100+ pages. 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Waste of a lottery pick when long term potential starting players could be drafted.

Whereas I see this as a no brainer. If you had the 1st pick as the Hawks or Mavs, draft Edey. 

If he was a worse Boban, I too wouldn't draft him at all. But I see him as Zach Edey. Zach Edey is the best prospect on the board for fit with Trae. He unlocks Trae off the ball which is a negative for Trae. This completely unlocks him. That plus what he would bring to any team. It would be more important with Trae or Luka. Especially Trae. 

[KB21]

Edey:

• Limited offensively due to lack of athleticism and lack of overall skill level.
• Post up oriented big who has no ability to handle the basketball or shoot from the perimeter.
• Limited defensively due to lack of athleticism and speed.  
• Needs to be in a zone defensive scheme where he's not asked to move off the block.
• Offensive potential is immediately limited due to the fact that he will not get many post up opportunities in a league where pace and space are king.
• Will be run off the court by the PNR.    

[thecampster]

Speaking in absolutes is always a dangerous space to live. Any variation from the absolute makes you wrong.

 

The lack of flexibility in this thread amazes me.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Speaking in absolutes is always a dangerous space to live. Any variation from the absolute makes you wrong.

 

The lack of flexibility in this thread amazes me.

He lacks flexibility as well.  He's not fast.  He's not agile.  He's not flexible.  He can't string together moves.  He can't do anything on the move.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Edey:

• Limited offensively due to lack of athleticism and lack of overall skill level.
• Post up oriented big who has no ability to handle the basketball or shoot from the perimeter.
• Limited defensively due to lack of athleticism and speed.  
• Needs to be in a zone defensive scheme where he's not asked to move off the block.
• Offensive potential is immediately limited due to the fact that he will not get many post up opportunities in a league where pace and space are king.
• Will be run off the court by the PNR.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

49 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He lacks flexibility as well.  He's not fast.  He's not agile.  He's not flexible.  He can't string together moves.  He can't do anything on the move.  

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

 

Edey beat Gobert down the floor and he light jogged till half court while Gobert was in a full sprint. 

I love facts 

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

He lacks flexibility as well.  He's not fast.  He's not agile.  He's not flexible.  He can't string together moves.  He can't do anything on the move.  

And yet somehow managed to score 24 ppg and grab 12 boards while dishing out 2.2 assists?

@KB21 you are offering observational opinion. He's not fast, not agile, not flexible, can't this, can't that. Those are observational opinions. You might be right but you'd get more respect in this thread if you said, he's not fast based on this official measurement. He's not agile as he performed poorly in the XYZ test. Isn't agile because he can't touch his toes.

Your arguments are based in opinion...not, isn't, can't but without anything concrete to back up what you say except the similar opinions of some analysts.

My arguments, some of Supes are based in facts.  24PPG is a fact. 60% FG% is a fact. Back to back college player of the year...fact. Can pass out of the post (measurable by assist numbers and type of shots off of assists), is a fact. Sets good picks (measurable, there are statistics on this).

I have yet to take most of the arguments in this thread seriously as they've been hyperbole and observational opinion.  Please provide facts. You have a doctorate. You know how to provide fact, cite your sources. Do that or just quit on this. Screaming and pounding the table just becomes noise after a while.  Give me some verifiable measurables.  "Is Slow" is not a measurable. Its an opinion stated as fact. Give me "runs a 5.4 40", "fell while running cone drills", "has a 79% FG% allowed on pick n rolls", cite your source. But please for the love of my sanity please stop stating opinion as fact. You're better than that.

Edited April 22 by thecampster

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

And yet somehow managed to score 24 ppg and grab 12 boards while dishing out 2.2 assists?

@KB21 you are offering observational opinion. He's not fast, not agile, not flexible, can't this, can't that. Those are observational opinions. You might be right but you'd get more respect in this thread if you said, he's not fast based on this official measurement. He's not agile as he performed poorly in the XYZ test. Isn't agile because he can't touch his toes.

Your arguments are based in opinion...not, isn't, can't but without anything concrete to back up what you say except the similar opinions of some analysts.

My arguments, some of Supes are based in facts.  24PPG is a fact. 60% FG% is a fact. Back to back college player of the year...fact. Can pass out of the post (measurable by assist numbers and type of shots off of assists), is a fact. Sets good picks (measurable, there are statistics on this).

I have yet to take most of the arguments in this thread seriously as they've been hyperbole and observational opinion.  Please provide facts. You have a doctorate. You know how to provide fact, cite your sources. Do that or just quit on this. Screaming and pounding the table just becomes noise after a while.  Give me some verifiable measurables.  "Is Slow" is not a measurable. Its an opinion stated as fact. Give me "runs a 5.4 40", "fell while running cone drills", "has a 79% FG% allowed on pick n rolls", cite your source. But please for the love of my sanity please stop stating opinion as fact. You're better than that.

What I have said about him is fact.  Anyone with two eyes and no bias towards wanting someone who is big can see it.  

[JustSomeGuy]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

All three of them move better than Edey.  

Hyperbole. 

[Gray Mule]

We all know that all those pictures of Edey hitting those three-point shots are fake.  He can only make dunks and then if no defender is nearby.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

We all know that all those pictures of Edey hitting those three-point shots are fake.  He can only make dunks and then if no defender is nearby.

In fact, any video where he's moving and its faster than others, it's because the world stopped like Zach on Saved By The Bell. 

[JeffS17]

Really hope we draft this guy to extend this debate another 4 years

[marco102]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Really hope we draft this guy to extend this debate another 4 years

lol I don't.  

Eddy most likely won't be an MVP and I don't think Eddy will be a complete bust.  Leave it at that. 

My preference is not for Eddy because I like another prospect more.  But the speaking in absolutes on both sides is wild.  If you know the future, given me the next billion lotto numbers and I'll split it 50/50 with you.

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, marco102 said:

lol I don't.  

Eddy most likely won't be an MVP and I don't think Eddy will be a complete bust.  Leave it at that. 

My preference is not for Eddy because I like another prospect more.  But the speaking in absolutes on both sides is wild.  If you know the future, given me the next billion lotto numbers and I'll split it 50/50 with you.

That's a wide margin of error. 

Not a MVP but damn sure no bust, lol

You aren't going to convince me that he's not a perennial MVP candidate with the Hawks long-term and you aren't going to be able to convince me that he won't be the unanimous ROY if he ends up here. That's just not gonna happen. 

You also aren't going to be able to convince KB that he's not a bust. 

This is the greatness of this thread. You can like who you want to like. You don't have to agree with me. 

I think you would regret if he wasn't a Hawk and I believe you would love it if he was a Hawk and how much easier he makes life for Trae at the very least in time. Just my take but KB will have a different one for you. 

Edited April 22 by NBASupes

[marco102]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

You aren't going to convince me that he's not a perennial MVP candidate with the Hawks long-term and you aren't going to be able to convince me that he won't be the unanimous ROY if he ends up here. That's just not gonna happen. 

 

I won't try to convince you of that sir.   Just let the chips fall where they may. 

I'll root for anyone the Hawks draft and won't be mad with Eddy.  The difference is, if the Hawks choose Ware, you'll be angry.

Whoever they draft I'll root for them to be the MVP one day because that means we will be winning a lot and maybe making deep runs in the playoffs.

Edited April 22 by marco102

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I won't try to convince you of that sir.   Just let the chips fall where they may. 

I'll root for anyone the Hawks draft and won't be mad with Eddy.  The difference is, if the Hawks choose Ware, you'll be angry.

Whoever they draft I'll root for them to be the MVP one day because that means we will be winning a lot and maybe making deep runs in the playoffs.

I do need to clarify something so it doesn't come off as hyperbole. 

When I say Edey as a perennial MVP candidate and someone who will easily win ROY in this historically weak class, sadly so that's not that big of a deal. 

This is why: 

Lively and Edey were the two best PnR finishers last year of draft-eligible prospects at some point in 2023. 

Lively put up an insane 1.52 PPP last year. No shock in the NBA with Luka, he's putting up 1.39 which is INSANE for a rookie is all he is, is a PnR finisher. Nothing else. 

Edey at 1.68 PPP as a Junior. This was insane and with the volume, one of the greatest PnR roll seasons of all time. No ceiling even mention, he also had good volume too. 

 

Edey came back even better this year. He was already an excellent sceener last year but he improved his mobility and became a world class screener. Let's make it clear, Clingan is the best screener in the last 15 years as a prospect and Edey is superior to him as a sceener. Edey right now is the best sceener in the NBA and he's not in the NBA. This is not hyperbole. His screen metrics are off the charts. His box-out metrics are off the charts. This is not hyperbole. This is Zach Edey. He's not normal. 

While his PPP dropped to 1.54, his screen volume massively increased which is more valuable than his PnR finishing. 

 

Now, why I keep saying he's going to be special. 

This is our PG

 

 

You can call it hyperbole, but I think Trae is the greatest modern PnR player of all time. Yes, even better than Nash due to his scoring and pressure he puts on a defense. 

You bring the best screener in the NBA right now in Edey who's an elite roller. Come on, now! 

We haven't even added the fact that he's just as relentless as Trae on a possession-by-possession basis. 

I learned from Westbrook, it's not talent that gets stats. It's relentless effort, motor, and a define skill-set. KD gets stats and looks beautiful. Westbrook gets stats and it's ugly but you can clearly see why he gets it. The effort, the motor, the passion for possession by possession ball.