Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[NBASupes]

I've said it so many times that he has poor fluidity and the only prospect who's came into the NBA with poor fluidity is Edy and it is a concern. 

When has KB said anything positive about Edey? 

[KB21]

25 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've said it so many times that he has poor fluidity and the only prospect who's came into the NBA with poor fluidity is Edy and it is a concern. 

When has KB said anything positive about Edey? 

He's tall.  

[NBASupes]

50 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He's tall.  

Bro a full blown hater. Come on man, you better than this

Edited April 18 by NBASupes

[shakes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Zach Edey is the most polarizing player in 2024 NBA Draft: Why Purdue star ranges from lottery to second round pick | Sporting News

Getting him to change directions on defense is like turning a cruise ship. 

I heard it was actually Edey who ran into the Baltimore bridge a few weeks ago.

[Atlantaholic]

I don't care if Eddy is a generational player or the next Drummond. Either is sorely needed right now. 

[NBASupes]

 

 

[REHawksFan]

Sitting here watching the Pels / Kings game and wondering why Edey can't be a similar player to JV? 

Not like JV is a high flyer or anything. He's big. He's smart. He's good around the rim. 

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Sitting here watching the Pels / Kings game and wondering why Edey can't be a similar player to JV? 

Not like JV is a .  flyer or anything. He's big. He's smart. He's good around the rim. 

This point been made and it's the same thing every time. Those who like him ask this or those like me who know him understand his strengths and weaknesses are just different than JV and those who don't like him just don't like any comparison to him if it's not Boban because they hate his game. 

It's not really that difficult. 

Their games is just different. JV is more of a skillful big who's light on his feet with excellent fluidity who's just not athletic at all. Whereas Edey is athletic for his size but has poor fluidity so things just look difficult for him that shouldn't for most NBA prospects but he's always producing so it looks like it's just luck but in reality, it's his movement skills but if [] you hate his lack of fluidity, you can't understand that his athleticism for his size, body control, hands, strength, motor, and his relentless physical mindset is his greatest strength. Not his 1v1 skill or ability to create for himself. He does have soft touch and he does use his body well but his skill level is fairly limited whereas JV is ample. JV is a smooth big man. 

Guys like KB are usually wrong saying he's unathletic when that's simply not the case. Many combine his fluidity with overall athleticism and they completely miss on Edey as an overall prospect. 

Defensively, JV just moves better, but he's lacks too much athleticism whereas Edey way more athletic but lacks too much fluidity. PITP is big on athleticism, you can't be good there and be a bad athletic for your size. Edey shines there. Fluidity matters for switching, it matters for range rebounding, it matters for short area movements. But athleticism matters for long movements, and Edey metrics, film, and data shows this. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

Quote

Snippets below from CBS Sports.  I like the idea of Brandon Ingram (Pelicans need a point guard) and picks for Young:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-couldnt-lead-the-hawks-into-the-playoffs-and-its-time-for-atlanta-to-trade-the-star-guard/#:~:text=If all keeping Young would,2027 free agency as leverage

"That's not all Trae Young's fault... but it would be hard to keep ignoring what a seismic negative impact he has on Atlanta's defense. Atlanta allowed 119.1 points per 100 possessions with Young on the floor this season, just half a point off of the NBA record for worst defensive efficiency over a full season. Young has played six NBA seasons and the Hawks have been better on defense without him in each of them. In the first four, Atlanta's defense produced its best defensive rating during any player's absences with Young sitting. The trend line here is pretty clear. When Young rests, the Hawks are generally pretty good on defense. When he plays, they're bad."

"That's more or less what happened when Young missed 23 games near the end of the season. The Hawks went 12-11 with the 18th-best defensive rating in the NBA. Not great. Not terrible. On the year, the Hawks were 14-14 without Young and 22-33 with him (including Wednesday's season-ending Play-In game). Young has generally made up for those defensive shortcomings by leading a very good offense. The Hawks ranked 12th this year. Not exactly a worthwhile trade for arguably the worst defender in the NBA."

"Young wants to run spread pick-and-roll every time down the floor. His priorities, in order, are to get a layup, get fouled, get a clean floater, get a clean 3-pointer, throw a paint pass or kick it out to an open shooter. This is antithetical to Murray's desire to dribble too much and settle for contested mid-range jumpers. The partnership might be able to survive a "your turn, my turn" compromise if either were consistent shooters off the catch or eager movers off of the ball. Neither have been."

There is nothing wrong with this. It's extremely effective and Trae's career PPP is exceptional with this style and it translates into the playoffs as well. Teams are more suited than ever to play against the PnR. They built their entire defense to stop it but you can't stop elite PnR players. You can limit Capela. You can even limit JC but it really can't limit Trae with an elite PnR player. I see Edey as an elite PnR player. You have to be an elite screener. He might be the best screener in the NBA right now but he's not in the NBA. You have to have great hands and a tremendous catch radius. He has that as well as anyone.

You have to be a movement big. He's that. He's also a low post-movement big. He has two specialists. The last and first Atlanta Hawk with two movement specialties was DeMarre Carroll (short perimeter movement and he also was a movement big). This unlocked our offense when we those Bud years.  When you take into account his BBIQ, awareness, and feel for the game, he also is an elite helper. This really helps Trae Young to an extreme degree. Add that he can draw double teams, get you in foul trouble with his relentlessness, and he can pass out of the post, this removes Trae's -10 off-ball weakness and gives Trae a full 60 on offense which is the elite of the elites for the NBA. 

To me, this is a no-brainer. We have one of the 3 and with Harden getting old, really one of the two in Trae or Luka. Get him Edey and free him. 

[NBASupes]

People keep wanting to know, what is Edey in general? I've posted it here but it's way deep into the thread. 

 

Best PPP players: 

Volume:  https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?CF=POSS*GE*3&dir=D&sort=POSS 

Vooch

PPP: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?CF=POSS*GE*1.5&dir=D&sort=PPP

JC

Percentile: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?SeasonYear=2023-24

Myles Turner who wasn't listed till Haliburton came since 19-20. Since Hali came, his stats on PnR roll has gone off the roof.

Edey PPP: 1.54 which would lead the NBA. 

 

 

I am a big fan of these videos as they just get straight to the synergy stats. We see a 3% increase in scoring from PnR and cuts. from 13 to 16%. I wish he would show screen assists. This is something the NBA tracks but Edey is ELITE at setting screens and that's probably one of his best traits as an NBA prospect. Even though we are a team that sets a lot of screens from our bigs, their screen assists totals are okay, especially Clint but he's regressed in this area. Gobert and Sabonis are the elite screeners in the NBA and Edey has the screens to join them as he likes the contact. I believe it's due to his hockey background of being a defenseman. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=SCREEN_AST_PTS

 

 

To the esteemed scouts and front office personnel of the Hawks, I implore you to thoroughly examine Zach Edey’s game. Engage in comprehensive film study, converse with his coaches, and listen to his interviews. It’s crucial to understand his game beyond the surface level. Dismissing him as merely a low post big would be a disservice to his skill set.

This year, observe Trae’s performance closely. You’ll notice a significant increase in impact compared to previous years, despite this being arguably the best season of his career. My scouting report, along with other brief reports on Edey, should provide valuable insights. I firmly believe that, except for Wemby, there isn’t another player from the last five drafts who would be a better fit for this team, especially alongside Trae.

Here are some key attributes of Edey’s game:

1. Exceptional movement for a big man of his size
2. Superior mental acuity, including basketball IQ, feel for the game, and awareness
3. An athletic freak for his size (7’4, 306 lbs) - Look at his NBA combine numbers.
4. Outstanding hand skills - Elite catch radius
5. Excellent body control for his size - Can finish in traffic and draw fouls while finishing
6. High-energy player with a relentless motor 
7. Consistent scorer - His shot tendency is in the 95+ range which is good but it can be a bad thing but good for the Hawks.
8. Constant movement in and around the post
9. Top-tier screen setter, a potential leader in screen assists given sufficient minutes. His ability to reset and want to set elite screens is infectious as Dennis Rodman thirsts for rebounds.
10. Proficient roller as a pick-and-roll big. 1.54 PPP would lead the NBA
11. Elite helper who makes life easier on his primary ball handler. - Helper is a  

Just listen to this: 

I’ve been scouting big men for over two decades. Only a handful truly comprehend their role at this level and understand their value.

 

The metrics support this assessment. Even a cursory glance at Tankathon reveals that Edey is in a league of his own: 

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey 

You can also compare him with some of the greats: 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--alonzo-mourning--shaquille-o-neal--tim-duncan--al-horford 

Edey’s relentless motor, reminiscent of Alonzo Mourning’s during his college and NBA days, sets him apart.

Edey may not be the right fit for every team, but he is for us. We have a player who utilizes his center more than anyone else in NBA history. Let’s seize this opportunity. Draft Edey, and let’s aim for championship contention for the next decade while extending Trae’s career.

 

My NBA short and sweet offensive scouting report on Edey: 

Current: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. However, his fluidity limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low post.

Future: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. His fluidity, however, limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low-post, with potential for catch and shoot.

[NBASupes]

If you want a list of his weakness:

Key Weakness: Poor fluidity

Minor weakness: None

What does his poor fluidity impact: 

Offense: 

Self-creation

Ball handling

Dribble drive

On ball playmaking

Explosiveness

Range rebounding

 

Defense: 

Switching especially when not set

Closeouts 

Short Area Movement

 

Overall:

Caps offensive self-creation and on-ball playmaking and defensively, caps defensive versatility and removes his ability to be a cheat code like Wemby who has insane measurables as well. That said, defensively, he does have the mental acuity and understanding of angles to where his defensive upside is much higher than his offensive upside although his offensive floor is very high. While his defensive upside isn't elite, he could develop into an impactful defender with a lot more experience likely by his 2nd contract or maybe closer to his 3rd contract. 

Due to his shot tendency, it's going to be impossible for him to function as a #3-#5 option on offense. He demands too many touches. This puts him in the same boat with tremendous scorers like Cam Thomas and Jordan Clarkson who are usually 6th men. The exception is playing with Luka or Trae who use their center as an extension of themselves which automatically turns the 5 into a temporary 1st option which would be beneficial for Edey. If there is an NBA comp for Zach Edey, it's a strange one. Is Isaiah Thomas.

I know, LOL, WUT! The reason why is both are high shot tendency 6th man (right now Edey - 97, rookie IT - 86) who can both play their position, both can pass but they aren't great traditional passers. IT0 is more of a connector and not a PnR playmaker while Edey is more of a low post passer but not a perimeter threat or an on-ball threat with the rock when playmaking.

Both are freak athletes for their size but their weakness with their size does provide limitations that have long-term effects.   

If you put both of them in optimal situations like playing with Horford for IT0 or playing with Trae or Luka for Edey, I think they will be perennial MVP candidates. Sadly, IT0 had a serious career-ending injury right as he was going into his prime. Horford was the perfect fit for IT0 as he unlocked IT0's off-ball scoring skills and helped turn him into one of the most difficult guards in the 2010s for that season.  

That's my comp for Edey. No one in his position compares directly so an indirect but similar impact player like IT0 is probably as good as it gets. 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

You will find some posters undersell the mess out of Edey but here's something to teether over: 

This is from last year's draft when Edey was a 2nd round prospect, mainly due to his defense, and athleticism which is vastly improved on, and while he was an excellent screener last year, he became a world-class one this year. 

This is a section from Edey's favorite hater' favorite site. 

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/edey-does-it-projecting-zach-edey

Quote

 

Roll Man

You’ll have a hard time finding someone who has a better success rate converting as the roll man in pick-and-roll sets. This is made evident by his 100th percentile ranking in said set. That’s with him scoring 1.690 points per possession, by the way. Despite his frame and the perception that comes with a player being built the way that he is, Edey has shown he’s fairly versatile operating mostly as an “arm’s reach” type of scorer.

 

This is from last year, he's a lot more versatile as a roller than even last year as his roll gravity is elite and creates so much space for the PnR ball handler. 

I want to emphasize, that I believe that Zach Edey's optimal fit is TRAE YOUNG. 

[NBASupes]

Some of our fans would like Clingan and I agree, I would like him too. Not as much as Edey but he's clearly #2. To me, this is a two player draft for Atlanta. Get Edey or Clingan. 

While Clingan doesn't have the MVP upside with Trae that Edey does, he does have All-Star upside and he's more two-way than Zach. That matters some. If we were to draft Clingan, he would be our best offensive center by far. That's easy, our centers are meh offensively. Defensively, he would be a tick below all three but he's a better drop coverage defender right now than all three. Of course, give him some seasons and it wouldn't shock me if he's All-NBA defense and averaging 20/13 if he can get his stamina and health in a much better spot than it is right now. 

Clingan could be a top 5 NBA center one day so yes, he needs to be a priority as well. 

To me, this is an Edey or Clingan draft for us. Get one of them. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Some of our fans would like Clingan and I agree, I would like him too. Not as much as Edey but he's clearly #2. To me, this is a two player draft for Atlanta. Get Edey or Clingan. 

While Clingan doesn't have the MVP upside with Trae that Edey does, he does have All-Star upside and he's more two-way than Zach. That matters some. If we were to draft Clingan, he would be our best offensive center by far. That's easy, our centers are meh offensively. Defensively, he would be a tick below all three but he's a better drop coverage defender right now than all three. Of course, give him some seasons and it wouldn't shock me if he's All-NBA defense and averaging 20/13 if he can get his stamina and health in a much better spot than it is right now. 

Clingan could be a top 5 NBA center one day so yes, he needs to be a priority as well. 

To me, this is an Edey or Clingan draft for us. Get one of them. 

Agreed. We need one of them.

obviously if we lucky in the lottery and get as high as #6 we are definitely getting Clingan depending on if the Grizz are behind us…IF we are a late lotto pick , we have a good chance at getting Edey as I believe most teams will past him up.

[NBASupes]

59 minutes ago, JTB said:

Agreed. We need one of them.

obviously if we lucky in the lottery and get as high as #6 we are definitely getting Clingan depending on if the Grizz are behind us…IF we are a late lotto pick , we have a good chance at getting Edey as I believe most teams will past him up.

Edey range starts at 9 from what I've been hearing but the idea is, he's listed in the 12-17 range is where GMs are projecting. Vegas has him in the 17-24 range likely around 20-22. 

Edey has buyers and from what I've gathered, teams in the top 8 are seriously monitoring him but he's not appearing on their board for now. Clingan is around 5-15. He's in no one's top 4 right now in term of NBA teams. 

He's clearly #2 to Clingan for true centers by GMs but Edey like everyone in this draft is eye of the beholder. Some have him in the late 1st. I haven't heard anyone with him in the top 9. He's been 10-15 for some at the highest. 

[KB21]

The defensive limitations for Edey are just too obvious.  I can get how those that like his game focus on his offense, which I think will take a hit when he isn’t posting up 66% of the time like he did at Purdue.  
 

You must be thinking that the Hawks can win games 160-155 because a team with Edey’s lack of defensive movement ability and Trae Young will never be even an average defensive team.  
 

The NBA is a PNR, space the floor, and fast paced league now.  You may can justify Edey in the PNR on offense, but he will be a swinging gate against the PNR on defense.  He will have the same defensive issues as Boban.  Also, I’m not convinced he can effectively operate DHOs or short rolls.   He’s not Rudy Gobert.  

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

The defensive limitations for Edey are just too obvious.  I can get how those that like his game focus on his offense, which I think will take a hit when he isn’t posting up 66% of the time like he did at Purdue.  
 

You must be thinking that the Hawks can win games 160-155 because a team with Edey’s lack of defensive movement ability and Trae Young will never be even an average defensive team.  
 

The NBA is a PNR, space the floor, and fast paced league now.  You may can justify Edey in the PNR on offense, but he will be a swinging gate against the PNR on defense.  He will have the same defensive issues as Boban.  Also, I’m not convinced he can effectively operate DHOs or short rolls.   He’s not Rudy Gobert.  

How are they too obvious?

He's a solid drop coverage center right now who's elite at paint protection. 

That would have value with Trae Young 

[] Why not meet him where he's at. He gets a ton of post touches, you don't have to end it, just limit it to when he has elite positioning. That's a high probability that he scores or draws a foul. He has that ability, why take it away from him when its productive?

I've said it a thousand times, it's a lot easier to defend as a set defense than constantly in transition like the Hawks defense this year with Trae. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/transition?TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=PPP

These numbers were much worse before the Trae injury. Sometimes your best defense is a world class offense. He moves a lot better than you say he does. 

Boban issues resolve around stamina and energy on both ends. Edey issue is just fluidity. His metrics, film, and data speak volumes. He's not perfect by any means but he's not bad either. You don't have to be Gobert to at least have a pulse. 

[KB21]

Hes not an elite rim protector though.  He is 7’4” and has a block percentage of 6%.  That’s not elite.  Clingan is an elite rim protector.  
 

Rudy Gobert is an elite rim defender.  What happened to Utah in the playoffs with Gobert?   They were exposed defensively in the pick and roll.  Edey doesn’t move anywhere near as quickly or explosively as Gobert.  
 

Walker Kessler is a better defender, and even he isn’t playable for Utah at times.  He doesn’t even start.  They start JC and Lauri instead.  

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Hes not an elite rim protector though.  He is 7’4” and has a block percentage of 6%.  That’s not elite.  Clingan is an elite rim protector.  
 

Rudy Gobert is an elite rim defender.  What happened to Utah in the playoffs with Gobert?   They were exposed defensively in the pick and roll.  Edey doesn’t move anywhere near as quickly or explosively as Gobert.  
 

Walker Kessler is a better defender, and even he isn’t playable for Utah at times.  He doesn’t even start.  They start JC and Lauri instead.  

I didn't say he was an elite rim protector. It's kinda hard to do that when you are poor at closeouts. While his block rate is good at 7.2% so he does at value as a rim protector which matters as a drop coverage 5.

He's an elite paint protector. People struggle attacking the paint with him there. It's in all of the metrics due to his size, measurements, tools, BBIQ, feel for the game, awareness, discipline. 

You say the same stuff all the time and I end up having to repost the same stuff all of the time

 

Kessler put up one of the best rookie years in RAPTOR history for a rookie center. 

The issue he has right now is he needs a PG. He did that with Conley but once Conley left, his effectiveness as a starter decreased. Centers like Kessler are heavily reliant on the PG for offensive production. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/?player=John Collins&season=2019

 

[KB21]

I don’t t really care what the metrics say when Edey isn’t going up against NBA talent.  Connecticut was able to attack Edey’s defensive deficiencies very effectively, and they have NBA talent.  When the metrics don’t match up with what I see, I throw them out.  It’s like last year when Indiana’s NBA Pg and C duo took advantage of Edey’s deficiencies in PNR defense.  
 

Even Clint is a better defender, and his limitations on defense are with his switching and perimeter defense.