How Legit are the Injuries?

[phoostal]

I think B. Knight deliberately puts players on the injured list. I think he does this to make the Hawks short handed on purpose. He wants to do everything in his power to make sure this team loses.

Last night if they had anyone of the following guys Bracca, Person, Henderson or Hanson. They probably beat Orlando. I just think Knight is making the Hawks play with 8 or 9 just so they have had a better shot at losing.

Even this pick up of Fuller I questioned. Orlando just picked up a guy that was averaging a double a double in that NBDL league (Pinacle, made the shot at the buzzer in the first half). We pick up a guy that is getting 6pts and 4 boards a game. Looks like Knight was just looking for a scrub from the NBDL to fit in with these NBA scrubs.

Unlike most people on this site I root for this team to WIN. What kind of fan are you to cheer for them to lose. You better hope we end up with either the first or second pick. If not this franchise gets screwed again. But, then again for some of you it will be good. Because you can root for them to lose again next year. To try to get the next high school superstar.

The sad thing is we could have easily won last night, but most of you on this site don't care you would rather have the team lose. You guys are an embarassment as Hawks fans. I said it. Have some pride. I don't care if you are banking your hopes on Howard or Okafor. I would still like to see this team win.

You guys don't have to worry, your boy B. Knight will make sure it doesn't happen. Someone mentioned that Crawford has been playing well of late, but he will have an injury in a week or so. You are absolutely right. Knight will see to it. A mysterious ailment that finds him on the injured list. We can not have us winning games.

I can't wait till they replace Knight in the off season. Please get Rivers in here as GM and Coach. I know he wouldn't deliberately try to lose games. I saw that first hand in Orlando. His first year he took a bunch a scrubs and got them to play 500 ball for the entire season. Thank goodness he didn't have Knight as a GM. Because he wouldn't have had it that way. By the way the 500 heart and hustle record led the team to signing McGrady and Hill. Shows you what winning could do for a team.

P

[KB21]

....team.

He actually understands what it means to rebuild.

Face it. This team has to get a lot worse before it will get any better. This team needs a superstar to build around, and it is very doubtful they will get that superstar in free agency. That guy is going to have to come through the draft, and you simply have a much better chance of getting one with the 1st or 2nd pick.

I want the Hawks to win, but I also want a championship team down the road. The only way a championship will be achieved is to blow this thing up and start all over, get the high pick and draft the local superstar.

Billy Knight won't be fired. In fact, he will be given complete control over this thing, and he will hire his next head coach without interference from the team president or the owners. That coach may be Doc Rivers. It might be Terry Stotts though.

[BlackHawkDown]

KB21 your one of the most sensible people around here

MSU still sucks though......

[pathway23]

Lets keep the EC's senior head coach, lol...yeah I agree with KB, BK has done a good job. Everyone except Henderson is really injured btw...Henderson might be, but I think its on him, not the team. I don't think a sore back should keep you out this long.

[CHORO44]

Face it if San Antonio doesn't tank that one season when Robinson got hurt they never sniff Duncan in the draft. The Hawks are merely following the strategy the NBA established with the lottery and salary cap.

Don't ever call me an embarrassment as a Hawks fan again. You don't know me at all and I've been going to every California Hawks game I can. I'm tired of being mediocre and you should be too...

I'm surrounded by Lakers and Kings fans. If you are in Atlanta then you are surrounded by other Hawks fans so you don't know what it's like when people constantly laugh at you.

[BlackHawkDown]

Amen, Choro44

I remember mentioning the Hawks when I was talking to some friends about basketball. One guy said " Oh, I forgot Atlanta had a team." No real fan wants to watch his team struggle in mediocrity for years and thats all this team was doing. Just enjoy the losses, you should be used to it

[Gray Mule]

You bet I do. I hate it as bad as anyone.

I hate getting run over, too. Detroit Pistons game, for

example. That was terrible. Me, rooting for the Hawks

to loose? No way.

When the Hawks do loose, which happens with amazing regularity, I feel just as bad as anyone else.

The players on the Hawk's roster before all the trading

couldn't win. They were good players. It was like

trying to get a square peg to fit in a round hole.

It just wasn't working. The solution.

Flush the toilet and start over. We have flushed. The

good players, who didn't fit, have left. They are

doing well with their new teams. The Hawks are no better.

Or, are they?

The exciting loss to the Rockets recently brought new

life to this Atlanta team. Hated loosing that one too.

But, they played inspired ball. Something we haven't

witnessed in a long time. That part of it was great!!

Knight faced two choices. He made them both.

1. He could keep what we had and hope that they would

mesh into a team and produce wins. He did that. We

made no drastic moves. It didn't work. Check the record

of Atlanta before the trade deadline.

2. He could tear down what someone else had built and

construct a new team. The first part of that task,

removing what didn't work together, he has started.

He may complete the job after the season.

The next part, building a new team where the old one was.

He may keep some of the players we now have. He may not.

One thing for sure. Next season, we will see a very

different team than the one we started this season with.

I think it is a very exciting time for Hawks fans. Some

want us to loose, just to improve our chances in the

upcoming draft. Loose now to win later. I don't.

I personally hope we win ALL the rest of our games this

season. Loosing stinks.

Will all our draft choices stink? Remember, this is not

the same person or persons doing the drafting as it was

a few seasons ago. Diaw & Hansen are the only players

that Knight had anything to do with drafting.

Will there be ANY free agents worth a darn who will

dare sign to play for Atlanta? Probably not any so

called "super star" players. There will be some of

the very good, solid, athletic players looking for a

chance to be a part of something very good who will

be happy to get the opportunity to come here.

Whoever we draft, whoever we keep and whoever we sign

as free agents, you can bet that they will fit together.

They will be square pegs fitting into square holes and round pegs fitting into round holes. Knight is building

a team. It will be a team. We know from experience,

individuals don't win ball games, not consistantly, any

way. Teams win ball games.

We want an Atlanta Hawks team. We want to be winners!

I believe that is what Knight has in mind. I have to

believe that he is capable of doing just that.

All we can do is wait and hope. This season is gone.

Shot to pieces. Knight will evaluate the players we

have now, then decide whether to keep some of them or

let them go.

Enjoy the special plays. The, "Wow! Did you see that!"

We will have plenty of those to remember and keep us

from going crazy until next season. There just might

be a few more unexpected victories mised in there, too.

I certainly hope so.

[tmac13]

Its very true that you aren't going to win many games with only playing 8 people..JT, Sura, SJax, Crawford and Pryz all had good games but logged way to many minutes to have much left in the 4th.

[phoostal]

I think you are a joke or an embarrassment if you root for this team to lose. That is if you are a true Hawk fan. If you are then you shouldn't be rooting for the team to lose. Now that is just my opinion. But, I think true teams pull for their teams to win. Even if they do suck.

No I don't live in California. I live in Florida and is just as bad here. Last night listening to the Orlando broadcastors making jokes about the Hawks. You think I appreciate that? Hell no. Especially when the Magic have the worse record in the league. The only way to shut those people up is by winning. And yes I have been to every Hawks game in Orlando. That is 15 years for a total of 30 games. But, I have never found myself sitting in the Orena rooting against the Hawks.

So you maybe pissed called you an embarrassment as a fan, but you are if you deliberately root for this team to lose. You mine as well jump on the LA or King bandwagon.

P

[phoostal]

So tell me this KB, what if this team fails to get the first or second pick? They don't get that beloved superstar. What do you do then? Root for them to lose again next year?

I'm not saying trading Reef and Ratliff was the wrong move. I think they should have kept Wallace they could have done better with him and gotten more from him in the offseason in my opinion. But, I think Knight is now forcing this team to lose.

As for Knight, I will give him the benefit the doubt until the start of next season. Let's see what he does this off season. But, I don't think these guys are really hurt. I think is trying to make it as easy possible for this team to lose games on purpose. That I don't respect. You may think that is genius. Because we may land the 1st or 2nd pick. But if we don't, well he looks like an A-hole.

Because we could have gotten more from Wallace this off season and we may have won more games with him to attract free agents. Let alone we would have only gained a couple of spots in the lottery.

P

[phoostal]

There is nothing to enjoy about this team losing. You like being a fan of a team that gets blown out by the Pistons. Watching on the dish and hearing punch line after punch line by the Pistons announcers. I guess that puts a smile on your face. I'm glad someone enjoys it.

P

[CHORO44]

Phoostal I don't understand why you can't see that this season is over and probably was when the season started. If we make the playoffs we get another midround pick and no shot at a franchise player. This is the one season where I honestly hope we lose every single game in order to get in a position to nab a franchise player via the draft or trade.

I guess you love the Babcock era where we just throw a team together and get knocked out the first round because if we win this year that is the direction we are headed.

This is the first season I can think of that the organization has chosen and is following a plan. That plan is to tank this season and start over and I'm all for it.

I think the team on the floor is an embarassment and not us true fans. I can't believe how many people are praising Sura and wanting to resign him. These so-called "hustle Hawks" are doing what the stars should do but they don't have the talent we need and I hope they disappear next year.

[pathway23]

We would be laughed at with Wallace just the same. We would get blown out just the same. This is the same team that got blown out with Reef and Theo out in LA, by 40 something points. Come on phoostal get a life, nobody is saying they like losing, but we are just satisfied that we will finally GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT. With Babs, we would lose just enough to miss the playoffs, and win just enough to stay out of the lottery, or if we did he would trade those picks away. I don't think anyone blew up the team with the intention of losing, but for building a future. Thinking long term, not short term. Sure we could have kept Wallace and won a couple more games, but there is no way in hell Wallace would stay here, no matter what, he has already said he wants to play for a championship and we are not one season or even two from that...Knight has that in mind, and I am happy for him. Teams like the Knicks and Blazers are looking to win short term, we are looking long term. We have been losing for 5 years now and we need it to change. Holding on to Reef and Theo until they walk out and we get nothing for them is not the right way to go.

[KB21]

If we finish with the worst record in the NBA, we will be guaranteed a top 3 pick. I personally feel that Billy Knight has two players in mind for the draft, and they are both local products. If he happens to miss out on Dwight Howard, I think he will take Josh Smith.

One thing I do know is that Billy Knight is very astute in his player evaluation. He loves the scouting and drafting process, and he is currently in Europe doing his own leg work in the scouting department. He won't select a player that he has not seen in person. The Hawks have place more of an emphasis on their European scouting efforts, so one of their international scouts has obviously seen a player or two overseas that they like. They have sent the report back to Billy, and Billy has gone to get a look for himself. This is the way they scouted Boris Diaw last year.

[BlackHawkDown]

What is the point of watching mediocrity, thats foolish I am an intellectual I enjoy the strategy of the game more than anything. I love watch team make moves to position themselves for the future, the strategies to win games the poetry of strategic decision making. Fools play checkers Men play chess. So root on for a futile victory in a battle while the war is lost.

From your ranting I am confident you are not an engineer or a businessman so let me teach you one thing. If you have a manufacturing plant the plant that produces the most product isnt necessarily the most profitable. Some plants overproduce and end up with millions in unsold product and lose. Sometimes its better to produce based on sales, right now our production is wins, but too many wins are just useless inventory at this point that could be used on capital investments that might benefit us in the future. A winning stategy is lose big now and win big later

[pathway23]

Excellent points BHD, couldn't have said it better myself. As an engineer myself I'm blushing a bit. hehe

[Diesel]

Is this season worth more than the opportunity to get Howard or Okafur?

In answering that, take into consideration that our past team could not and did not string together 2 wins in a row. They were headed to about 28-30 wins but were probably NOT going to make the playoffs and probably not going to get a high lottery pick...

So the question...

Is this season worth more than the opportunity to get Howard or Okafur?

Somebody used the true example of San Antonio. They had Nique and a few others. They got Duncan in the end. Thus far, Duncan's presence has led to 2 championships.

[phoostal]

Your right BHD, I work at a garbage dump for living. Picking up trash and looking for my new cardborad house. Your a joke. Just because I don't have the same views as you, don't insult me by saying I'm not smart enough to be a business man or an engineer. I don't need to justify myself by telling you my profession. Since we don't agree you must be dumber than a monkey, because even a monkey can make sense of everything I have said on this board for the last couple of weeks. Is that fair to say? Of course it isn't. So why don't you quit with the insults and lets have an intellectual debate.

You have your feelings of how to rebuild a team and I have mine. Don't compare basketball to a manufacturing plant. It's not the same. There are different ways to rebuild. Did I say it was the wrong move to not make any of the trades Knight has made? No. The only one I had a problem with was Wallace.

People make the arguement that we weren't going anywhere with Wallace. Well, how do you know? How do you know he wouldn't resign? How do you know we couldn't got more from him in the off season? How do all of you so called experts see the future? Please save it. You maybe right or you could be wrong did you ever think about that.

I never could stand Babcock for the record. For all of you assuming that I did.

My whole point to this arguement, is this I can't stand to have these so called Hawks fans rooting for this team to lose. If you are a fan you shouldn't root for them to lose.

Let's say this, What if the lottery picks don't pan out and lets say we don't sign any significant free agents in the next three to five years. More importantly we are still losing. Players that we do have through the draft get better and sign with anoher team when they are a free agent. Because they don't want to stay in a losing environment. How good is the plan then BHD? Please tell me.

The Clippers of the East Coast. We really aren't improving on our laughing stock image.

Guess what Mr. Engineer/Business man no matter if you tear your company down to start over. Losing breeds losing. You have to have a small success and build on them. But, if the above scenario takes place. There is no success to be found.

I will agree with you on one thing. Change had to be made. I think they were wrong to pull the quick trigger on Wallace, for reasons discussed above. But, to simply root for this team to lose. I don't think makes you a true fan. Even if you are looking for the gold at the end of the rainbow. You should always support the team and I don't think that is done by rooting for them to lose.

It's funny you come on here and crack on Crawford and Sura. But the funny thing is that they might be all you have to cheer for in the next few years. Players just like Crawford and Sura. So you might want to get use to rooting for guys like that or you will be rooting for us to lose to get those precious lottery picks each and every year. Because we no what free agents think of Atlanta (hell, SJax even said it his article last week that people don't want to come here)and where these picks will go after their contract is up and isn't staying Atlanta.

I hope I'm wrong and every draft pick we make is a superstar and all the good free agents want to sign in Atlanta. But comparing to Atlanta to other franchises in the league is like comparing, well McDonalds(other franchises) to Uncle Joe's BBQ(Atlanta). An established restaurant to single restaurant that no one knows if they are going out of business or about to thrive. Most smart business men will invest in the sure thing. Granted some can make millions gambling, but most fall flat on their faces. Let's hope we make the millions on gambling.

Is that a good business analogy for you?

P

[BlackHawkDown]

Phoostal,

that slow an steady crap your talking about, building one one victory at a time is the kind of crap Babcock was doing. "Hey we got to the playoffs lost in the 1st round and with the addition of the 19th pick and some Mid Level Exception player, Oh and oh boy we will get the rights to some PG in France with our second round pick. WOW, Next year just you wait and see"Yeah that really lets everybody know we are interested in becoming an exciting team.

The Hawks are a laughing stock because they lose for 5 - 6 years and when they were winning they were always some second teir team. What, That makes you happy. SAy I'm not a fan, I'm Not I dont give a s#it about a bunch of sweaty grown men running around. I enjoy watching the game and supporrt the team but if I dont qaulify as a fan, oh well.

You have to take a risk to win. You used the example of McDonald's and Uncle Joe's. Yeah, there is a bigger risk that Uncle Joe's will fail but there is a bigger upside on success. There is huge chance the Hawks will fall flat on their face but there is just a much better chance for huge success.

Do you think that if the Hawks reel off some wins and get the 8th playoff seed that the franchise will be better off?

[phoostal]

I think that route could be just as beneficial as the route we are taking now (making the 8th seed). The reason being is that we don't have the same people in charge. I feel it maybe easier to rebuild by making the 8th seed.

Some beleive you build through the draft, I won't argue with that. But, I also think you do it through free agency and some good trades. I think you get good relatively young free agents or through trades it can also work out. Then you sprinkle in draft picks to help maintain the status you acheive.

I think that approach is more beneficial than just tanking the season and trying to get a top 3 pick. Unless you know you have the next Jordan or LeBron. I wouldn't do it.

You may laugh at the 8th playoff seed. But, I look at it as a stepping stone. Let's say they kept Wallace. With what has happen the last couple weeks the Hawks may have been in good shape to make the playoffs. That being said it would bring more exposure for the team. A lot more positive press than negative as well.

But, what this really shows people, is maybe Atlanta isn't that bad. They made the playoffs they have plenty of cap room. They are relatively young. They are in a good market. They have new ownership. The sky is the limit. The only negative I can think of is not having a top 3 pick. Even though I don't think that is that bad. There are no guarantees in the draft and I think the positives of this scenario out weigh having a top 3 pick. This franchise has nothing but a chance to get better under this picture. Higher playoff seeds in the following years.

Free agents would be more apt to sign here. I like free agents more than draft picks for the simple fact they have proven themselves in this league. Yes, I maybe missing out on the next Jordan or LeBron by not being in the top 3. I'm willing to take that risk on a proven commodity than an unproven commodity. That my friend is smart business. Choosing the proven commodity over the unproven. In the long run I will be turning over a steady profit or winning in this case.

That's just my thoughts. I know it is unpopular with everyone. But, I think there are different ways of rebuilding. This maybe a good way to do it as well. I just think the odds are better with the way I'm suggesting. Only time will tell. I just want to let fans know there are other ways to rebuild than rooting for the team to lose to get a top 3 pick.

P