If we got Livingston...

[Diesel]

From my readings, I have read that Livingston really dominated Telfair in the practice sessions for the MAAG. I wouldn't doubt it. When they played, Telfair seemed faster, but Livingston looked like he was a pro already. He made his teammates look good. I think Livingston is the next Jason Kidd.

So the question.

IF we are third to pick and Okafur and Howard are gone... What's the gameplan??

Take Livingston or Smith?

Honestly, I like Smith, but for argument sake, let's say we go with Livingston.

Then the next thing is we would have to move JT.

Who would you want?

In my mind, I wonder if JT could get us a PF....

Maybe JT traded down to Phoenix can get us their pick....

Josh Smith?

[Nicholasp27]

i would love to get rid of jt and get smith/livingston or howard/smith(!)

i think diaw/sg/smith/howard/center would be a good start for our future...diaw could become a true pg with defense and could average 10/8/5 or so, with smith/howard eventually averaging 20 each...i'd look to resign sura cheap for this year, as he plays with heart and runs and would be good fit for this uptempo team, then look to sign ray allen or tmac, etc next summer

diaw/allen/smith/howard/center would be a good team

[dj_me]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if there was a possibility of getting Livingston AND Smith, I'd trade JT. Everyone else can fight over Okafor and Howard, I want these two young cats. What would be ideal would be if somehow one of the two's stock falls so that we could pick him up with our mid-first. That or, instead of trading JT (seeing as though he clicks with Sura and Jackson) send away our mid-first, a second, and some money considerations.

JT / Livingston

Sura / Diaw / Hansen

Jackson / Smith

CC / Hendu

Collier / Pryz / Reb

[dj_me]

Another reason I'd pick those two over Okafor and Howard is, as mentioned in another thread, I believe that it is harder for bigger players to make the transition. Plus there is the fear of Okafor's back. I'd rather go with a couple quick, skillful, aggressive, scoring players with very nice court-vision.

[Nicholasp27]

that lineup is the same as now, just with those 2 rookies as backup

we are rebuilding...we need our rookies to get PT...if i draft livingston/smith, they are starting

if we draft smith, we don't need to pay the big $$ to jackson

i'd rather trade jt for a real pg or real sg and pay the $$ to a center than a sf if we get smith

i'd also love to get ramos with a later pick

[emeans]

I am definately on the Josh Smith bandwagon. If we can get both Smith and Livingston that would be BIG to the rebuilding future of this franchise.

Who are you guys Top 5 picks in any order??

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if there was a possibility of getting Livingston AND Smith, I'd trade JT. Everyone else can fight over Okafor and Howard, I want these two young cats. What would be ideal would be if somehow one of the two's stock falls so that we could pick him up with our mid-first. That or, instead of trading JT (seeing as though he clicks with Sura and Jackson) send away our mid-first, a second, and some money considerations.

JT / Livingston

Sura / Diaw / Hansen

Jackson / Smith

CC / Hendu

Collier / Pryz / Reb

---

Livingston and Smith are great talents but that team would have a crater size hole on in the front court. I think the Hawks need to come out of the draft with a big man, specifically a power forward. If Howard and Okafur are not available than one of the Euros will be good value. The Hawks will get killed on the boards if they go into next year with Crawford and Collier starting inside. It would be one thing if we have a young stud backing up, but a far different situtation if Hendu is all we have to fall back on.

So to sum up, Hawks need a power forward.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

If Howard and Okafur are not available than one of the Euros will be good value.

---

I don't think this is the answer either. Seriously. I don't see any Euro player as being that good in the NBA. But I do have a thought...

For Argument sake, say we got Josh Smith at 3rd.

At 4th, we trade JT/1st (Mil) to the Bobcats for the rights to Livingston!!

Then....

We work a deal with Orlando...

Diaw/ 2 2nds for Gooden!

Livingston/Jax/Smith/Gooden/Collier....

That's a team with a strong future.

[Blunt91]

I think the upside and learning potential for Diaw is huge. He already shows glitches of what type of player he can be if someone works with him. I don't want to trade Diaw just yet. I would like for Armond Hill, Dominique and Mike Glenn to work with Diaw this offseason to get him more aggresive. Gooden just hasn't shown me much he is at best a poor man's Kenyon Martin.

[pathway23]

Yeah don't forget the kid is still 20 years old...he has room to grow. He already is as good or better than Dermarr was his rookie year.

Wasn't Dermarr a #9 pick?

[cyman3]

i believe Johnson was a 6th pick

[Packfill]

I would most likely take Smith or Livingston before Biedrins, Podkolzine or one of the other European big men if they were still available. But if the Hawks are stuck at the 5 pick, then one will have to do.

As for the trade of Terry/Mil 1st to the Bobcats for the 4th pick, I don't think there is any chance the Bobcats would make that trade. As an expansion team, in a hoops hysterical area, they can afford to wait on a high schooler to develop.

I also would not trade Diaw for Gooden. Gooden is o.k. but the Hawks would need a real defensive presence at center to make it work. He is really a poor man's Shareef - good offense, but limited defense and not much size.

[Nicholasp27]

i would take smith over a non-howard/okafur big man...he is the next nique/tmac/kobe

i would be fine with taking a big as our other first rounder, even if moved up, instead of a pg

i think diaw can be turned into a fine pg, especially if we have some offensive power in the sg (tmac/ray allen?) and sf (smith) as well as a good, strong frontcourt

and i wouldn't trade diaw for gooden

but i would try to sign dampier/blount/foyle/somebody as well as try to draft a project to turn into a steal with later picks

[Blunt91]

Don't compare Gooden to Shareef, he is no where as skilled as shareef, he is just athletic that's it and to me his offense needs work.

[Diesel]

That I wouldn't consider trading him for NEED.

I doubt that Diaw can be a PG in this league. At best, Diaw will be a poor man's Doug Christie. The problem is this:

IF we are set to be an uptempo team, then Diaw doesn't fit.

Diaw is a defensive stopper who would be good for a halfcourt team that plays a motion offense and strong defense. That's what we were. When we still had Theo and Reef, Diaw shined because we were playing his style. He didn't have to score, he just had to move the ball around on offense and on defense, he was the defensive stopper.

However,

When we changed up and got Sura and made Jax the focus of the offense and brought CC in to play PF and moved away from a defensive team to a scoring team, Diaw didn't do as well. It wasn't a rookie wall that hit Diaw, it was a change in style. All this talk about Diaw being 20 and going to change is a myth also. Diaw was in the draft 2 years before we actually picked him. The problem with Diaw they said was that he lacked aggressiveness on offense. For two years, the knock on Diaw was that he disappeared on offense. Welp, he had 2 years playing with pros to fix that... did he fix it??

Now, Gooden is no Reef. He's not a star PF, but he's a good PF. He's athletic, he's a good defensive player. He fits our needs. In trading for him, we're not trading for a star, we're trading for a player that fits what we are trying to do...

Just think: The new young guns would be:

Livingston, Jax, Smith, Gooden, Collier...

Now, that's not a great squad, but that's a squad that's young and very talented. With a few years of growth, you might have a great squad that features, the next Kidd, the Next TMac, and a couple of role players, plus whatever else we can get out of the draft...

[Blunt91]

Yeah Diaw might fit the slow tempo play better and yes he has had 2years to up his offensive game but Euro ball, even though it is considered Professional isn't the NBA. No Diaw want be a starting PG in the league but I still think he can be valuable to the team if only he learned to shoot more. The more ball handlers we have on the floor the better our offense will be. Sura and Jack are good players but their statistics are what they are because they are logging 40+ mpg. They want see that many minutes next year if with this team, they shouldn't anyway, that only means that we have no bench so we have to wear out our starter to be competetive. BTW being compared to Doug Christie isn't a bad thing. Boris can still get out and run the floor. He can survive in our offensive game if he learns to take the open jump shot or drive to the basket and not get stripped of the ball because he "shows" the ball to early before getting to the hoop.

[cyman3]

i wish we had a doug cristie on our team...

[Nicholasp27]

he's still a rookie

and he could easily be a doug christie and has a good chance of being the next scottie pippen

for the right player, of course we'd trade him...but i don't think Gooden is that player

if we had to trade diaw/jt/mil pick/our first to get howard/smith, then i'd do it

but for gooden, i don't think so

[Diesel]

All this talk about Diaw this, Diaw that...

Check out D. Gooden

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3602

11.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg 1 bpg in 27.1 mpg

[Lascar78]

no he didn't have 2 years to fix it in the pros. You can't learn the american game while playing in a euro league. He had 2 years to play pro french ball which is alot more unselfish and counts more on passing till you find open shots. Did he succeed? Well he won a title, got the MVP and won a dunk contest so I'd say yes. Any international player almost always needs a year or two to adjust to the selfish NBA game. He'll get there. He's a good defender, passer etc... and to make predictions on his career when he's a rookie is just retarded.

Why is he a POOR MAN's doug christie at best? Why can't he be as good or better? Doug christie didn't have to adjust to a whole new style of basketball and let's compare their rookie stats:

Diaw 4.5 PPG 4.5 RPG 2.3 APG 0.5 BPG 1.6 TO/G shooting .437 FG% and .240 3P%

Christie 6.2 PPG 2.2 RPG 2.3 APG 0.2 BPG 2.2 TOG .425 FG% .167 3P%

I'll take Diaw's rookie numbers over Doug's any day.

People are so caught up because of a few phenoms that they forget that it takes 99% of rookies about 2-3 years to show what kind of player they will be. International ones are even later bloomers. I mean Dirk's shooting % was .405 his first year with .206 3P%.

Diaw is the best draft choice we've made in a long time (given the position we got him at), let's give him a chance to bloom before we ship him.

Diaw might flop, but he might be really good. There aren't that many tall players that are very good passers, defenders and handlers all at once. He won't ever be the #1 guy on a championship team but he can be the kind of all around player that holds a team together.

I can't imagine Gooden ever being that great. Yeah he puts up ok numbers on the worst team in the league but he's not that skilled. He's just all energy. I consider him to be another (slightly better) Junk Yard Dog.

Stop acting like you know how players' entire careers will turn out when they're just rookies, or even high schoolers. Only time will tell