Artest to Bowen "i'll play you one-on-one for it!"

[cyman3]

honestly, i think Artest is more gifted offensively and defensively than BOWEN. thats why Artest is an allstar, while Bowen isint.

Bowen - offensively of off Tim Duncan. w/o Duncan, Bowen would avg no more ppg than Dennis Rodman... lol

Defensively, i dont see ARTEST kickin anyone in the FACE in order to stop a player from scoring.

Also, Bowen tends to have many enemies and many players callin him "cheap"

wat u guys think?

[chillzatl]

he needs to keep his mouth shut.

Having players call you cheap is a sign of respect and a sign that you are damned good at what you do. I've never seen Bowen shove a guy to the floor from behind or pull a player down by his jersey because he's getting outplayed. Both of which I've seen Artest do, so who is the real cheap shot player?

Artest is definitely more gifted all around. He's more athletic and a better scorer. But until he can take some personal credit for a ring, he's got little to say to Bowen....

I've also never once heard Bowen talk trash about a guy he's supposed to guard. He just goes out and does his job. You've got to respect that in a player.

[cyman3]

Bowen KICKED a dude in the face! how more cheap can u get? he was tryin to defend a shot but knew his arms wasnt long enug, so he went LEG first.... kicked the dude in the FACE!

as for ARTEST needin to keep his mouth shut?

hes been doin that this whole season and gettin out of trouble. I mean c'mon, the dudes Bowen for crying out loud. Its no Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, or Kevin Garnett talkin... its Bruce Bowen.

[chillzatl]

the thing is, was it on purpose? I can't see the guy kicking someone in the face on purpose. Throwing your leg up is one thing. Doing it to intentionally kick someone in the face is another. I've seen guys throw up a leg like that plenty of times. But doing it to intentionally kick someone in the face is a big difference.

I agree, Artest has been great this season as far as his conduct. But he has a history of intentionally doing things that could end up hurting someone. Bowen, to my knowledge, does not.

[Weez]

Bowen's actually gotten a ton a bad press this year for doing just that sort of thing. Ray Allen and others have oe out and said that he's playing cheap...now whether or not this is true is up for debate.

what I really liked was the rest of Artest's response. Along the lines of, "if you want to tell me I dont deserve it, call me and tell me. you can get my number." the article talked about how Pop blasted Carlisle for campaigning in the media for his players....and how he wouldn't do such a thing (and Pop citing that as the primary reason as to why Artest won the ward). Carlisle shot back saying that it was in fact the coaches who voted for the DPOY, not the media. Nice try, thanks for whining, come again.

[Traceman]

so. Did you see that cheap shot to the ribs he gave Mike Finley late in the season? The play was away from the ball and he just elbowed Finley in the ribs for no reason. Cuban got in trouble for offering to pay the fine of anyone who retaliated against Bowen for the cheap shot.

Artest DEFINITELY deserved the award for best defender this season. Actually, Bowen would be behind Ben Wallace on my list.

[chillzatl]

Well I remember Cuban talking about buying a hit on him haha.

[AHF]

Bowen is definitely a cheap shot guy with an extremely limited offense but he does play some very good legitimate defense as well.

Artest is definitely not below a cheap shot either. IMO, you can't get cheaper than pulling a guy's pants down like he did to Paul Pierce.

The whole one-on-one thing is also a cheap publicity ploy since Bowen probably would shoot 30% if he was unguarded. That is like Tim Duncan challening Ben Wallace to a one-on-one competition to see who is the better defender. Duh, I wonder who would win those challenges? Maybe the guy who is a good rebounder rather than the guy who is one dimentional?

Anyway, Artest or AK-47 would have been my vote for DPOY.

[Plainview1981]

How many titles would Bowen have if he played with Indiana and Artest played with the Spurs? Bowen has been damn lucky to

be in the league. In fact, if he wasn't played for the Spurs

and getting open looks he'd be no more valuable than Ira

Newble. When Bowen actually does something on offense AND

plays great defense then we'll talk about him. He only has

to play one side of the floor and nobody is looking to stop

him and that makes a huge difference.

I like what Artest does. THe guy broke MJ's ribs so what

do you think he'd do to a cream puff like Bowen?

[cyman3]

"THe guy broke MJ's ribs so what

do you think he'd do to a cream puff like Bowen?"

- i remember that... lol. According to MJ, Artest is the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

as for BOWEN/ARTEST playin 1-on-1 for the award... thats doesnt make sense... cuz Bowen prob SUCKS offensively 1-on-1, while Artest would post him up every time.

but then again, if BOWEN wants it bad enuf... play Artest's game (since hes offerin the challenge)... and have it on PAY-PER-VIEW... lol

[Weez]

while certainly not an offensive threat, let's not forget that he did lead the L in 3pt percentage last year. That's worth something....

(and for the reminder, I'm in favour of artest having won the award).

Hots, sometimes it just seems like you don't appreciate anyone's game who's not a superstar/fantastic player with a complete game at both ends of the court. Bowen has his merits.

[Plainview1981]

while certainly not an offensive threat, let's not forget that he did lead the L in 3pt percentage last year. That's worth something...."

What did Bowen lead before he was getting open jumpshots

from playing with Duncan? Honestly, last year was the

only year he shot all that great...so... I'm saying

Bowens job is alot easier than Artest job is. RA has

to be a defensive stopper and a offensive producer. How

good of a defensive player could artest be if that was

95% his focus?

[Weez]

and one could argue that Artest's job is made much easier due to the fact that he rarely sees a double team...because most teams focus on JO, not on Artest ~many times the Pacers have offensive threats in Harrington or Miller in addition to O'Niel...one could find/make a somewhat similar assesment of the "opportunities" that Artest ses on the offensive end of the floor.

[Plainview1981]

and one could argue that Artest's job is made much easier due to the fact that he rarely sees a double team...because most teams focus on JO, not on Artest ~many times the Pacers have offensive threats in Harrington or Miller in addition to O'Niel...one could find/make a somewhat similar assesment of the "opportunities" that Artest ses on the offensive end of the floor."

Why does any of this have to do with Bowen? WHo double teams

Bowen? None of your posts addresses the fact that Bowen has

to do nothing but play defense while Artest has so much

more to do and be responsable for.

The only thing that keeps Bowen from being a CBA scrub

is defense and it still isn't better than Rons despite

the fact that Ron has to use more entergy in other area;s.

Some like to point to shooting but Bowen is a 39% shooter

other than last year. He isn't even that great of a shooter.

[Weez]

It has everything to do with your comparison of Bowen and Artest....you argue that Artest deserves added compensation and comendation in awarding the defensive player of the year because he has to shoulder more of an offensive burden/both sides of the court game than does Bowen. Your argument, by my best estimation, is that Artest doesn't get the open looks therefore has to expend more energy on the offensive end relative to Bowen. I assume that you therefore state that his defense is all the more surprising and commendable...and I was simply pointing out that Artest may have an easier time/have to spend less energy on the offensive end that you give him credit for using.

[Plainview1981]

Artest isn't only a scorer on offense....He's also a passer

and such. But the point is that Artest has to play a big role

on offense. Passing, scoring, getting to the fouline, MAKING

foul shots etc. If Artest only ran up on offense and just

shot whenever he was open like Bowen does he'd be able to

save his entergy on defense. Bowen is only good for one thing

and I just don't get impressed by those type of games. I don;t

mean one thing as in defense. I mean just one thing in that he

brings nothing to the table other than defending his man.

Honestly, there is alot of teams Bowen wouldn't start on.

There can't be more than a team or two that wouldn't start

Ron Artest.

[Weez]

however, it is an award for defensive player of the year. No one's held Ben Wallace's shortcomings against him in years past. You could argue that, rather, he's been able to overcome them with surperio play...but that doesn't change the fact that he won the award based opon his defensive abilities...

[ctownsuper]

Carlisle shot back saying that the coaches voted for the All-NBA defensive team, not for DPOY. Carlise noted that Artest got the most votes for the All-NBA defensive first team, 8 more than Bowen i believe. Artest deserved both awards. Bowen is the third cheapest (read: cheater) player I have ever seen. Second to John Stockton and Karl Malone.

[Plainview1981]

The difference between Ben Wallace is that he rebounds, blocks

shots, gets steals and plays defense and can tip in about 8-10PPG and Bruce Bowen just plays defense on his man and

hits an open shot every once and a while. Bruce Bowens job

is to play man to man defense and anything you get is gravy...

Bowen just doesn't do very many things.

[cyman3]

Dennis Rodman called John Stockton the cheapest player in the NBA... and i can see why.

while im not a fan of stocktons, i do appreciate the things he brought to the game.

and its not like hes calling the fouls... its the refs job to make sure that theres no such thing as "being CHEAP"

as for the BOWEN debate...

i was readin an ESPN article talkin about how NELLIE is in the HOT SEAT cuz he doesnt have any set SUB PATTERNS... and how he thinks talent alone will get him on top. ESPN was talkin about how guys like Najara needs to play more for a team like the MAVs.