Why dont we trade with Phoenix..pick for cap space

[Admin]

If we see that we arent going to be able to get Kobe and we dont get the 1st or 2nd pick, lets trade some of our cap space to the Suns for their lottery pick. 2 top 5-7 picks would be great to come out of this draft. We could then give up our 17th and the lower of those 2 lotto picks to move up into the 2nd slot to grab Howard. The other pick would be enough to get us a very high potential player.

A sample trade could be something like this:

C Jake Voskuhl

PF Zarko Cabarkapa

Lotto Pick

for

Capspace

What do you guys think about this deal? Obviously this would take a little chunk out of our capspace and we would be giving up on Kobe most likely, but I think the potential to come out of this draft with Howard and Smith/Deng/Harris/Gordon/etc. is too much to pass up for a young rebuilding team. Sign Sura, Jax, and Kenyon this year and save up our remaining dollars and go for Diesels boy T-Mac next offseason.

[Admin]

In case anyone is wondering why Phoenix would do this.......they only have 10 mil in cap space and an extra 5 mil this year would almost assure them of getting Kobe and turning into an instant contender.

[Weez]

the primary problem is that you have to count your chickens before they're hatched. We won't know what sort of chance we have at Kobe until July (really) much after the draft. PHX can afford to take that risk, as they're pretty well set, as is, with young talent in Marion, Carbraca, Johnson, and Stoudemire. If they get the capspcae and lose out on Kobe...they can still go sign someone, almost anyone, cause they'll have a team in place, much money, etc.

Plus you're doing what many aren't certain they're comfortable with ~ following the Bulls blue print with two young/HS type players that may or may not work out. But once you go down that road, it's hard to turn back on it. It's why the Bulls just can't give up on Curry, and Chandler to a slightly lesser degree, and the Wiz on Kwame. You put yourself in a real bind...one that's likely to cost the GM his job, no questions asked, little else considered, if it doesn't work out to at least above average results (ie playoffs and decidding to resign them after their rookie contract ~ see Kandi).

So, longwindedly, NO, I wouldn't. It's risking too much and bowing out without even putting your hat in the ring.

[KB21]

Atlanta would have to take on Jahidi White if they did any deal with Phoenix. That's the player the Suns are looking to move.

It's definitely a thought.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Quote:

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Atlanta would have to take on Jahidi White if they did any deal with Phoenix. That's the player the Suns are looking to move.

It's definitely a thought.

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We will defently be forced to take Jahidi White, and I see us being able to work out a deal that fits us better with another lottery team.

The Suns will be looking to screw anyone who makes a offer with them besides the Magic, trying to aquire T-Mac.

We need to focus on other teams or pray before the lottery comes!!

I would love to see us aquire 2 lottery picks, but face it the chances are slim to happen, unless you are wanting our cap space to go bye bye.

We know Kobe is the real deal, but it would be a waste if we found out our lottery pick isn't the real deal after giving up alot to aquire him.

We need to focus on Kobe, along with trying to move up in the draft if we have to.

[SunsFan]

The Suns aren't going to trade a lottery pick and the #17 overall pick from last year just to save a measly $4 million bucks. That's ridiculous.

[Weez]

for a legit chance at Kobe, on a team that is already mostly built, that missed Carbraka more tha most realize...I think they would. you're their fan, so should know more than I do....but if I thoguth I had the inside track on him (Kobe) for a pick that likely won't help the team much (no true good pg there, nor a center)....well, I would. the cost is low, the gains high.

Hawks....well, they're not in that position...

[Admin]

Under normal circumstances I would say that you are right.......but that measley 4 million could VERY likely be the difference between getting Kobe and not getting him. If you honestly think that the Suns wouldnt give up a 7th and 17th pick to get Kobe and get out from under a couple of ugly contracts you are nuts.

Of course we all know you arent really a Suns fan so its pointless to argue with you, whoever you really are.

[Traceman]

if that is what it took to get enough money to sign Kobe. They MIGHT be able to work out a better deal elsewhere but they might not. That being said, if they would rather send us Joe Johnson AND Jahidi and keep their lotto pick, that would be more than fine by me as well. I could see them wanting a PG like Harris or Gordon in lieu of Joe Johnson if they don't think Johnson can be a full time PG. They could lineup:

Harris (Gordon)

Kobe

Marion

Stoudemire

McDyess???

That is VERY strong. I can't imagine that team not being a playoff contender IMMEDIATLEY and a possible future championship team.

As for us, White's contract is up after next season so his contract would come off the books along with Hendu's and CC's. We'd lose the ability to sign as many FAs THIS YEAR but we'd pick up either a lotto pick or Joe Johnson. Say we get lucky and get Howard in the draft. I'd be MORE than happy with a lineup of:

Okur(I like this guy!)/White

Howard/Hendu

Jax/CC

Johnson/Diaw

JT/Sura*

* - We likely won't be able to afford Sura if Okur and Jax take $12 million between them and the cap stays the same. In that case, I would hope that Telfair drops to #17 and then I'd pick up a FA PG at the vet minimum.

Then next year, Hendu, White and CC come off the books and free up $17+ million in capspace. T Mac or Ray Allen anyone?

[Admin]

I think that I would be plenty happy with Joe Johnson in lieu of the lotto pick......although I would still prefer the lotto pick. Jahidi can at least put in some minutes and take up space so he isnt totally worthless either. When your franchise has a once in a decade opportunity to sign someone great like Kobe who is just now in his prime you have to do anything to make it happen.

[Weez]

"When your franchise has a once in a decade opportunity to sign someone great like Kobe who is just now in his prime you have to do anything to make it happen."

curious that you don't see the Hawks in the same light thoug. This team will most likely be rebuidling and putting forth a very young squad....

but what if we got Okafor in the draft, through lucking out in the order or making it happen through a the trading of spots to land him. (I tend to think that the prior would be easier).?

Esp with the first scenario, lucking into the draft spot, you'd then have Diaw, JT, and Okafor. I don't know if others recall why I stated Atlanta would be the perfect place for Kobe's, given the population demographics, being in the Eastern conference, etc.

You could then pitch taht team to him as well as the assurance that he woiuld be numbero uno, and that the team would have ten mill more in capspace this yera to sign others/people he feels comfortable playing with.

[Admin]

Weez I agree with you, but I think the likelihood of Kobe going to Phoenix and his former coach plus staying in the West plus playing for a team with big time potential is a more likely scenario than him coming to Atlanta. Granted my trade somewhat hinges on us not winning the lottery and therefore not having a shot at Howard or Okafor, but say we did luck out and win the lottery then I might say the heck with this offer and give Kobe the full court press. The problem is that we dont have a coach and we dont have a Stoudemire or Marion type of player on our team to attract Kobe here. We dont even have close to a superstar player as those close are close to being. I just think its an awful large risk trying to get Kobe and that we could really improve our team in the long run by making this deal and having two very high lottery picks, one being Howard who this franchise really needs.

Just because we have two high lotto picks doesnt mean we go high school guys with both of them. That might be a foolish thing to do but thinking of Josh Smith and Dwight Howard playing for us for the next 10 years makes me salivate. There is nothing to say that we cant go for some college veteran with the other pick instead of Smith after we get Howard. I can understand your apprehension with having 2 young guys on the team ala Chicago but in reality Chandler/Curry arent even comparable to Howard in terms of being NBA ready and physically gifted. Smith is probably a lot like those two baby Bulls though and he might take a while to contribute, but I would consider taking him and letting him learn from the bench for a bit and molding him ala Kobe/McGrady when they came in the league.

[Weez]

until the order of the lotto has been determined (soon now). Only then will we have any real idea about what we're looking at and what our options actually are.

plus, we're not considering a couple of things about the Suns ~ I'm sure that they're hoping certain guys will be picked in the draft lotto that will then grant them their capspace without having to make any deals. Secondly, against PXH, I'm not sure how well Kobe and Amare (marion's perfect imo) would mesh, though that's relatively minor ~ I see, and perhaps mistakenly, Okafor fitting him perfectly, similar to LeBron and Boozer (perhaps I'm underestimating Okafor's offensive abilities and thirst for the ball on offense).

Finally, say they do get along OK (not splendid), that team's going to have to resign both Amare and Johnson shortly after they signed Kobe. Doing so would take away all cap space for years to come. While those are minor points, they're factors, esp the complete lack of capspace to add anyone else that's needed ~ sorta like LA now.

[thecampster]

Let's look at it from this perspective and see what you guys think.

Presently we have JT, Diaw, Hansen, Crawford and Henderson. We resign SJax, Sura and Pryz (last 2 can be had cheap) giving us 8 players. We trade with Phoenix, Jahadi White and Phoenix's pick (probably #7 over alll) pre-lottery to give us a better chance at a better pick. For our 3rd 2nd rounder (43rd overall) this year, the 2nd rounder owed to us by Orlando and a future 1st protected against the lottery.

Going into the draft we look like this,

JT

Sura/Hansen

Sjax/Diaw

Crawford/Henderson

Pryz/White

Draft selections 6,7,17, 35 and 38

We then trade Jason Terry, Boris Diaw and the 17th selection to the Chicago Bulls (who would like to let Crawford go) for the 2nd overall pick.

In order, these are the selections I make.

2. Dwight Howard or Emeka Okafur (which ever is available..let's say Howard for now)).

6. Jameer Nelson

7. Josh Smith or Luol Deng (if he falls this far and smith goes early).

35. Ha Seung-Jin 7-3 300 C (S. Korea) 1985

38. Chris Duhon 6-1 190 PG Duke Sr.

and the cap space to go after 2 of the top 5 free agents. (Kobe is out as Phoenix can now afford him) My picks are Kenyon Martin and Jamal Crawford.

Final team looks like this:

Nelson/Duhon

Jamal Crawford/Sura/Hansen

SJax/Chris Crawford/Josh Smith

Kenyon Martin/Dwight Howard/Henderson

Pryzbilla/Jahadi White/Ha Seung-Jin

Expect Henderson to bleed again and ride the IR and let Seung-Jin spend one year developing overseas. That get's us down to 12. Move Henderson mid season to a team trying to clear cap space for next year.

This team isn't stellar but definately a playoff team. When Crawford and Henderson come off the books next year, that's another 10 million in cap space.

Just a thought or 2 to stir the pot.

[Blunt91]

We are not going to give up JT, Diaw and the 17thpick to get Howard. He is not Lebron James or even Carmelo Anthony. JT, 6thpick & 17thpick for Howard. We could go Diaw, 6thpick & 17thpick for Howard. We could still get a low first round pick even after trading the 17th if Billy Knight is as savy of a GM as Rich Mckay is with the Falcons. Trade 2second rounders to move up to a late 1stround pick say 25th or 27pick.

[TheDude]

i don't think it's necessary for us to have the 6th, 7th, and 2nd pick to be successful... heck, having 6th, 7th, and 17th would produce a guaranteed star in some fashion you would have to think..

it's all about what Knight has in mind for each position with the type of ball he wants to play.. it is also determined by the new coach(which i would assume would be hired soon)

[xman]

One problem with the idea of selling 4 mill in cap space for a lotto pick - competition. Phoenix can get that cap space elsewhere at a cheaper price.

Charlotte for instance, would be thrilled to get a future 1st (lotto or top 20 protected forever) in exchange for Vosk and 3 mil (3 mil to cover the balance of Vosk's contract after they cut him)(same for Carp) because the deal would not cost them anything.

Same deal to get rid of whichever is left to any team with cap space.

The lotto pick is worth way more than the low #1s Phnx would have to give to get it done.

That being said - I LOVE the idea of selling cap space and have said that a few times.

If Phnx wants to clear out is cap space - fine, what is it worth?

Jahidi 5.4 mill through 2005

Vosk 1.5 through 2006

So, for us to lose 8 mil in cap space in 2005 and 1.5 mil in 2006, we should get 3 mill(to pay the salaries and make the owners happy) and . . . . .

2 lotto protected number 1s; or a lotto protected #1 and a couple of 2s.

The draft picks help us more than anyone and we don't really lose anything - unless someone believes we can actually use all of our cap space on FAs this summer.

Then next year - Hendu, CC and Jahidi would come off the books - leaving us in a great position again (plus another high draft pick). Plus, we would have a year to evaluate a few of the draft picks.

Face it - rebuilding will take years - but, building a champion would worth it. Quick fixing to get a mediocre team that would make the playoffs and get blown out in the first round is not worth it.

The FUTURE can either look like this:

If we spend the cap space

PG: JCrawford

SG: JT, #17, FAs

SF: Diaw, 2nd rdr

Pf: CCrawford, #6 ,2nd rder

C: Ohkur, FA

If we wait a year

PG: #17, 2nd rounder

SG: JT, cheap veteran, 2nd rounder

SF: #6, diaw

PF: #1 in 2005, (or picks that we have traded for)

C: Ohkur, FA

There are many combinations, but the results are the same: if we spend the cap sace this year, we will become a decent middle of the pack team with no chance of winning it all unless our draft pick turns into MJ. If we wait a year(rent out the cap space for a year for draft picks), we get a couple of high draft picks to rely upon (those we trade for and then out pick next year will be high because the team will lose again).

SO, SELL THA CAP SPACE FOR PICKS - AND, IF PHNX IS STUPID ENOUGH TO PART WITH A LOTTO PICK (which I doubt), TAKE IT

If Not, take what we can get.

[Traceman]

sign here, helping Phoenix create capspace could be a viable option for us. I have to agree with Dolfan than the Phoenix situation looks a LOT better from where I'm sitting. PHO is every bit as desirable a location as Atlanta from a quality of life standpoint for most guys due to the great weather and other amenities. From a talent standpoint, its not even close. Phoenix has almost as good a chance to win the lottery as we do not to mention they have Stoudemire, Marion, Joe Johnson and other young talent (Cabarkapa, Barbosa, Jacobsen, Lapme) already in place).

[Weez]

but you can't have it both ways. period. you have to decide which way you want to go ~ cause the drraft's before you can even talk to FA's....

[DominiqueWilkins]

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i don't think it's necessary for us to have the 6th, 7th, and 2nd pick to be successful... heck, having 6th, 7th, and 17th would produce a guaranteed star in some fashion you would have to think..

it's all about what Knight has in mind for each position with the type of ball he wants to play.. it is also determined by the new coach(which i would assume would be hired soon)

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Ya I thought we would of been able to do something with the 4 first rounders we had a couple years back!!