JT Side Note

[Guest Walter]

First of all I find it hard to believe people could get down on JT when, even with injuries we went 19-17 the second half of the season as he played the point more and more and with his Pg assists being at or around 8 assists per game in the last month of the season with only SAR, an interior player apt to cost JT an assist, to pass to.

That being said, I have even higher hopes for JT this year if only because he will be WELL rested. Last year he came off summer league play and the world team play straight into camp. While young, JT does not appear to have the build to be able to do that and sustain his best performance over an 82 game if not longer season. I only wonder what he could have done the second half of last season with his legs under him. Just a thought.

[Hawksfreak]

Yea I know just amagine what its gonna be like with everyone healthy.

[Diesel]

Nobody is down on JT,

Just realistic.

Realistic is that we have picked up a player in DD who can run the offense. JT is high value and might get us high return this yr. Babcock always says that no one is untouchable.

Secondly, your issues are irrelevant.

You mentioned that we went 19-17 with JT playing PG and you attributed that to his PGing skills..... NOT SO FAST..

There are several other factors that played into that and you should know this:

1. The Emergence of DJ. Dj's game dramatically improved in the second half making it neccessary to play him. (MUCH TO YOUR DISPLEASURE WALTER)

2. The Emergence of Newble. Our wins in the second half were because we finally started Stopping people.

In fact our offense Dropped in the second half of the season....Look at the numbers.

On the season we

Scored 94 ppg.

Gave up 98.3 ppg.

in the second half,

we scored 93 ppg

gave up 96 ppg.

If I had time to work the math I will tell you how much our scoring changed from the first 41 to the second 41.. But based on this numbers, it obvious that in the Second half of the season, OUR PPG DROPPED with JT at the Point and our defense INCREASED with JT at the Point.

That doesn't neccessarily mean that JT was a better defender either.

We had a chance to play DJ and IRA More...

Also, We were able to move JT out of the 2 spot where he was being killed defensively.

So the argument that JT as a Point is responsible in any way to our winning is WRONG...

In fact, the true conclusion is that with him at PG, our PPG went down and our defense increased because he was not playing 2 and getting beat and posted up.

[Guest Walter]

...or made the big pass for us the second half of the season?

Yes, I agree with you Diesel that defense is vastly important and defensive improvements helped this team (which makes me wonder why an All-star defender such as Theo is so expendable, especially given Nazr as his replacement, to you Diesel) perhaps more than anything (given there was MUCH more room for defensive improvment than offensive imporovment (a fact you argued against last year Diesel but now appear to accept as if it were an idea you thought of on your own).

However, a good Pg doesn't necessarily make you score more points, ESPECIALLY WHEN A MUCH LARGER PORTION OF THE TEAM'S EFFORT IS GOING TOWARDS DEFENSE, but rather may make you score more efficiently (i.e. higher shooting percentage). This may not even be the case since I don't know where you got your season split breakdown, but it would be nice to see what our FG% was before and after the break. Similarly, it would be nice to see if our number of team assists indicating easier baskets increased.

Please provide me with the link to your season split website so I may look into this further as you seem to think scoring more points, when MUCH more effort is being alotted to defense (and longer opponent's posessions making for fewer offensive posessions per game for the Hawks), is the only much less best means to judge offensive efficiency.

W

[Diesel]

OK, let's roll through this Walter Subject change but let's pay attention to his acknowledgement....

In reply to:

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Yes,

I agree with you Diesel

that defense is vastly important and defensive improvements helped this team

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I agree with you diesel = YOU ARE RIGHT!

Now... with that out the way, on to more pressing issues.

In reply to:

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makes me wonder why an All-star defender such as Theo is so expendable

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How many games have the allstar played for us?

How many times was he a defensive presence for us?

We have all been fooled into believing that Theo is some defensive savior... He's not. He will help our defense... However, we don't need him. That being the case, what do we need?

We need a third scorer. I would love to trade Theo to Chicago for Jalen Rose and have our third scorer. Hell even crackhouse is starting to look pretty good. The point is that what good is stopping a team if they can stop us with very little effort?? This has been my point for the last 2 summers. You would think that Theo would have shut me up by now?? All he has done is add more fuel to the fire. He missed another appearance in SL. Do you think that all this old boy grinning saying it's just another game is truth? The coaches want to see Theo just as bad as most of the fans. Once again, for the record, let me state it again. How does Theo help our team if he's in street clothes?

In reply to:

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However, a good Pg doesn't necessarily make you score more points, ESPECIALLY WHEN A MUCH LARGER PORTION OF THE TEAM'S EFFORT IS GOING TOWARDS DEFENSE

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THIS IS [censored].

The truth of the matter is that if JT (God forbid) had gotten Hurt, JV would have been able to step in and give the same effort and maybe better results. Ask Doc Rivers... JV can RUN an offense.

In reply to:

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This may not even be the case since I don't know where you got your season split breakdown, but it would be nice to see what our FG% was before and after the break. Similarly, it would be nice to see if our number of team assists indicating easier baskets increased.

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Doug's site.. So it's valid.

2nd....

FG% Season = 43.9, 2nd Half = 44.0. Not a big difference.

Assists Season = 20.19 pg

Assists 2nd half = 20.58 pg

First half Assist = 19.81 pg.

slightly higer.

Again the emergence of DJ and Newble.

And bTW, the record was 19-22.

Seems to me that JT just held the rope. No big changes. Just changes that probably would have occured anyway with a team that stop having players come in and go out. Once we got past the stricks and the Slaters... We became a better team because we had a consistent bunch.

[chillzatl]

nobody knows how well he can run the offense. You are doing nothing but hyping assumptions. Saying that having him makes JT expendable is ignorant. Especially when your only reasoning behind it is a baseless assumption that "he can run the offense". Which in the NBA is an unproven, unfounded, blind statement. To take it a step further he was NOT a great college point guard. he was more of a scorer than a point guard. So how the hell can you say "he can run the offense". He can score, we know that. He only collected 4.5 APG in college. I mean you yourself said that JT's 6 APG were nothing but "simple assists", so how the hell does 4.5 APG AT A COLLEGE LEVEL translate into being able to run an offense at the pro level? Simply enough, it doesn't. You are just spinning things your way to be right.

I mean you have blasted babs and the hawks scouting enough, how did every other team let this guy slip through the cracks then? I'm not nocking DD, I think he'll be a good player for us. But realistically he had a high profile enough college career yet he still slipped through the cracks. Obviously other teams felt he was lacking enough things that they were willing to just pass. Mainly they felt that he IS NOT a real point guard, he's a SG in a PG's body and that combined with being under 6' tall means they weren't interested. Now I know you truely believe that you are more knowledgeable than anyone who actually works in the NBA. But that's a bit of a stretch.

[Guest]

I don't know why you want to trade JT for Shane Battier.I

like Shane but he isn't CLOSE to explosive as JT is.Jt can

breakdown any guard in the NBA and less you get us that

kinda player or someone like Odom I'd rather keep JT.

[JTFan31]

Let me keep this nice, short and sweet. You make no sense Diesel, JT is not the only one in the team that suppose to play defense. This is a team game and the team has to play defense. Jt is a gambler, he likes to go for steals and sometime he doesn't recover to his man, with team defense he can gamble and have another of his teammates covering for him. How can you say our scoring decreased with JT at the point. He is our second best scorer at 19 ppg, case closed. Last but not least, are you a JT hater? It's obvious you want JT traded for basically nothing and have a rookie PG in DD starting, which he is nowhere near the player JT is. Also remember how many games JT won for us last year on last second shots, I want to see DD do that. I wanted to make it short, but couldnt help it.

[Guest]

In reply to:

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You are doing nothing but hyping assumptions. Saying that having him makes JT expendable is ignorant. Especially when your only reasoning behind it is a baseless assumption that "he can run the offense". Which in the NBA is an unproven, unfounded, blind statement.

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First off, at no time have I said that JT was expendable. IF it were possible to play both JT and DD at the same time without being killed defensively, I would do that instead....

However, What I am saying is that Looking over his college career, I think DD has talent. He's driven. He works out with the best. Etc. Etc. I don't believe him to be the scorer that JT is. NOT by any account. However, like Coles, BK, MM, and Vaughn I sincerely believe that after a few months he will be able to run the offense better than JT. He has what JT lacks... That's COURT Vision. JT will pass up 9 assists because he really doesn't see them. How many times have JT taken 2 dribbles too many before trying to make the pass. JT has never had court vision. That's why I sayin the second half, JT made the "easy Assists" You know the general pass to the post that ended up with Shareef scoring? DD is able to see a play develop. Will he be ready for NBA action?... We will see.

So does that make JT expendable? NO. However it does make us realize that we have a very valuable trading piece in JT. If we put JT with Hendu... That's 9+ Million dollars in salary. JT's value could get us out of Hendu's contract and get a good player in the process. Someone who can fill our need at Sf. We cannot close our eyes to this possibility.

That's what I'm saying.

In reply to:

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mean you have blasted babs and the hawks scouting enough, how did every other team let this guy slip through the cracks then? I'm not nocking DD, I think he'll be a good player for us. But realistically he had a high profile enough college career yet he still slipped through the cracks.

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First off, you should never base a players ability by his draft position.

If you want to talk about slipping through the cracks:

How did Tony Parker slipp through the cracks?

How did Jamal Tinsley slip through the cracks?

How did Eddie Jones Slip through the cracks?

How did Nick Van Exel Slip through the cracks?

How did Karl Malone Slip through the cracks?

How did John Stockton Slip through the cracks?

Look at DD. He's not the biggest player in the world.. .And Just like Stockton he was underestimated because he didn't play for Duke. However, DD is a very good player besides not being drafted high. The other thing is just like Parker, DD didn't workout for anybody. Picking him was a walk by faith but we have gotten a jewel.

[chillzatl]

"He has what JT lacks... That's COURT Vision. JT will pass up 9 assists because he really doesn't see them. How many times have JT taken 2 dribbles too many before trying to make the pass. JT has never had court vision. That's why I sayin the second half, JT made the "easy Assists" You know the general pass to the post that ended up with Shareef scoring? DD is able to see a play develop. Will he be ready for NBA action?... We will see."

I don't see where you are actually seeing all this COURT VISION. Because he is small and white that means he has COURT VISION? Where was that court vision in college? If he has all this COURT VISION, he sure was using his scoring ability a LOT more than his court vision. I mean at the college level if he was seeing so much I would think he could hit his men for more than 4 apg. He didn't even rank in the top 50. So I just don't understand where you see all this court vision. The scouts DID NOT see it, the stats don't show it, where is it? Again, I'm not knocking DD, I think he'll be a solid player for us. I'm knocking YOUR over-evaluation of his abilities.

Also, JT was popping for 7.6APG in the final month of the season. That's well beyond the "simple assist" range. There are a lot more high profile PG's out there who also happen to have more around them than JT does and they aren't able to get even 6 "simple" apg. I watched every game and went to many. I saw JT make plenty of excellent, timely passes. What you call a lack of COURT VISION, I call growing into the role. The stats show that his assists went up nearly every month of the season and went up steadily over the last few months. Is it not possible that his COURT VISION improved just like the other facets of his pg game (ball handling, spacing, body control)? And is it not possible that it will continue to improve? I don't even consider it a possibility, I consider it a fact.

[ATLien_]

Stockton and Malone were lottery picks if I am not mistaken Diesel. Malone was like 12 and Stockton was close to 16. I would hardly call that a slip.

[Admin]

In reply to:

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I don't see where you are actually seeing all this COURT VISION. Because he is small and white that means he has COURT VISION? Where was that court vision in college? If he has all this COURT VISION, he sure was using his scoring ability a LOT more than his court vision. I mean at the college level if he was seeing so much I would think he could hit his men for more than 4 apg. He didn't even rank in the top 50. So I just don't understand where you see all this court vision.

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Out of curiosity, did you see the game that was televised Wednesday? A small part of what people are basing his court vision on came from that game, plus the box scores of the others and post game write ups. Dickau has tremendous court vision. If you watch him play you can see his ability to see different angles and make passes so quickly that they are actually a bit shocking. But this is just the summer league so you cant base all of your judgement from that.

However, I watched him play 2 consecutive years in the tournament, and I mean I watched him. I try and watch every game I can during March Madness because you never know which of those guys we will be getting. The ONLY reason that he didnt average more assists per game in college is because he wasnt asked to. He was the best scorer on the team, but it just happened to be that he was the PG as well. If he would have had 2-3 players on the team that were better scorers than him like he will have with us, I can promise you that he would have had more. He just didnt have anyone good to pass to and the team relied on him for their points, which is why he averaged 20+.

Also, everything that I have read from his coaches there, to what he has said, to what the Hawks coaches have said, to what the NBA draft experts have said is all the same thing. Dickau was asked to score first, pass later in college.

Once this kid gets acclimated to the speed of the NBA game and gets steady playing time (EMuss says 20-25 a game to start the season), we are going to be looking at a rookie of the year type of player. Chillz he is that damn good. Just that one game of watching him play with us has me so excited because he made Dion and DJ and the other guys look amazing out there. Just imagine if instead of Haslem and Bennett to pass to he would have had Jason Terry and SAR to pass to he would have EASILY had 10+ assists. I mean basically he got about 8 per with 2 players with offensive skills.

I have said it before and will say it again. We got the steal of the draft, the rookie of the year, and every team that passed him up will be kicking themselves like we were doing last year for passing up Parker and Tinsley.

[Diesel]

We passed up Malone to take JON KONCAK.

tell me... Did Karl Malone fall through the crack.

In reply to:

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1 NY Patrick Ewing Georgetown

2 Ind Wayman Tisdale Oklahoma

3 LAC Benoit Benjamin Creighton

4 Sea Xavier McDaniel Wichita State

5 Atl Jon Koncak Southern Methodist

6 Sac Joe Kleine Arkansas

7 GS Chris Mullin St. John's

8 Dall Detlef Schrempf Washington

9* Clev Charles Oakley Virginia Union

10 Phoe Ed Pinckney Villanova

11 Chi Keith Lee Memphis State

12 Wash Kenny Green Wake Forest

13 Utah Karl Malone Louisiana Tech

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Stockton....

First Round

1 Hous Akeem Olajuwon Houston

2 Port Sam Bowie Kentucky

3 Chi Michael Jordan North Carolina

4 Dall Sam Perkins North Carolina

5 Phil Charles Barkley Auburn

6 Wash Mel Turpin Kentucky

7 SA Alvin Robertson Arkansas

8 LAC Lancaster Gordon Louisville

9 KC Otis Thorpe Providence

10 Phil Leon Wood Cal State-Fullerton

11 Atl Kevin Willis Michigan State

12*Clev Tim McCormick Michigan

13 Phoe Jay Humphries Colorado

14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State

15 Dall Terence Stansbury Temple

16 Utah John Stockton Gonzaga

Let's remember that Stockton is the ALL TIME leading Assist and Steals leader. You think he didn't slip?

[ATLien_]

I know how great Stockton and Malone is Diesel. My point is no one at the time during their respective drafts knew how good they were going to be. I really don't consider 13 and 16 slips, but looking at the scrubs that got chosen before them I can see your angle. Thats just poor drafting by the teams though.

[Diesel]

Actually Karl Malone was a dominant College player. Dallas told him that they would take him #8 if he was still available.

Stockton was a case of playing for a smaller program. Actually, I wouldn't have taken him either. However, the difference now is that Scouting has become better. And Good teams are playing smaller program teams. This yr and last, Gonzaga played against really good programs with good results. Mostly because of DD.