Kenyon Martin looking to make visit

[Plainview1981]

Diesel puts Kmart down for shooting 48% but likes a

guy that shoots 43%,(38% this year)what kind of sense

does that make?

[DominiqueWilkins]

Agree with you mostly, but I'm only putting Kenyon Martin first if the contract numbers work out good for the Hawks.

I don't think the guy is even worthy of 11 million a year, and he still has alot to prove. He is a fair FT shooter, but the Hawks can market him to the fans.

That is one reason why I think the Hawks will go with Kenyon Martin over Swift, if the numbers come out. The Hawks will be able to make more money off of Kenyon Martin, than they would Swift anyday of the week.

I would be fine if the Hawks were to sign Swift at a much lesser contract.

Quote:

---

I know this already...

From watching games... Swift is already a better shot blocker and rebounder than KMART.

Kmart is more exciting but half of that is because he plays with Jason Kidd.

Kmart may score more... But he may not. That's hard to judge for both players. I mean, if you want to be honest, Kmart does shoot a mediocre percentage for a running PF. Neither he nor Swift has a good midrange game and fortunately, neither he nor Swift shoots from outside. The point is that I just see us dumping too much money into Kmart and being really sorry about doing it. 14.0 million for Kmart is not a good move. I would rather pay Swift between 6 and 7.

---

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Diesel puts Kmart down for shooting 48% but likes a

guy that shoots 43%,(38% this year)what kind of sense

does that make?

---

Since you asked for this, I will give it to you. I like Fizer as a BU PF making the Vet minimum....

Yeah, I like a guy who pulled down 4.9 boards in 16.0 minutes as my BU PF making the vet minimum.

Yeah, I like a guy who is 6'8 and 3/4" 257 and can run the floor well for his size playing BU PF making the vet minimum.

Yeah, I like a guy who was made to play SF for the Bulls even though he is a PF as our BU PF making the vet minimum...

And you know HOTS... I wonder how you even got to Fizer from this thread? Can't defend 14 mill py Kmart so let's attack Diesel's choice for BU PF making the vet min?

[Plainview1981]

None of what you said changes the fact that the guy

plays dumb and is a black hole on offense. Whoope

do. He grabbed 5 rebounds. Fizer is like a poor

mans Corliss Williamson or something. Only he plays

dumber.

" Can't defend 14 mill py Kmart so let's attack Diesel's choice for BU PF making the vet min?"

Where did I say he's worth 14 million? Show that to me.

I'm attacking this thought because the guy plays dumb.

Bring in players that play the game the right way. JT

alone is too many dumb players on the team.

I can see Swift...But not this guy. I could even see bringing Mike Wilks(your guy) back as a PG. But please,

no more dumb players.

[Diesel]

Still,

You attack a choice for BU PF making the league min who pull down 5 boards in 16 minutes.

I don't see the problem in getting a BU PF 6'9 250 who can do a lot in small amounts of time for the vet min...

[Plainview1981]

I'll tell ya, 5 measley rebounds(regardless of time) doesn't

makeup for all that guys shortcomings. As far as Kmart goes,

I'd say he's worth about 8.5-9 million and not 12 or 14.

[Diesel]

Off the Bench, those 5 measley rebounds in 16 minutes is HUGE.... Secondly, in what way is he a dumb player?? I mean you throw this crap around but you can't justify.... Fizer for BU PF at the vet min is a good pickup. Any BU PF that can get you 5 rpg and is only making the vet Min is a good pickup.

[Plainview1981]

Hendu can average that....No biggie. If he's some kind

of monster why is he only playing 16MPG in the first

place?4.4RPGH in 16MPG isn't all that impressive.

"Secondly, in what way is he a dumb player??"

1)Black hole on offense. When he gets the ball the shot

goes up no if and's or butts. That alone makes him a dumb

player. He averages 1.5 offensive rebounds per game in

16MPG because he can't make a shot and collects his own

rebound...See that 38%fg

"Any BU PF that can get you 5 rpg and is only making the vet Min is a good pickup."

Looking at stats too much? What about defense?(he's REALLY

bad there) and poor shot selection. You mean to tell me

4 rebounds is moree important than those things? C'mon

now. These type of players don't help your team. They

just collect stats. Not to mention that the Bulls only

shoot 40% as a team so there are plenty of rebounds to

get.

If he wasn't a black hole on offense I'd agree with

you. But that isn't the case.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Hendu can average that....No biggie. If he's some kind

of monster why is he only playing 16MPG in the first

place?4.4RPGH in 16MPG isn't all that impressive.

---

Hendu can't even play 9 games out the year.

Quote:

---

1)Black hole on offense. When he gets the ball the shot

goes up no if and's or butts. That alone makes him a dumb

player.

---

Don't you think that some of this is coaching?

Quote:

---

If he wasn't a black hole on offense I'd agree with

you. But that isn't the case.

---

So you don't think that coaching or lack of coaching has anything to do with it? I guess you never watched him at Iowa State with J Tinsley? He wasn't a black hole.

In fact, look at his pro numbers...

1st year 0.41 shot per minute.

2nd year 0.37 shots per minute.

3rd year 0.43 shots per minute

Last year 0.47 shots per minute.

The numbers change due to coaching. For a reference, your favorite player Paul Pierce represent a High with 0.48 shots per minute while Boris Diaw represents a low with 0.16 shots per minute.

So by your logic, you would say that Boris is a smarter palyer than the old nasty black hole... Paul Pierce.

[Admin]

You guys are debating scrubs like Hendu and Fizer......and then comparing them to Pierce?

Just for the record Diesel, yes Pierce is a black hole on offense. Always has been, always will be. However, he is a great player that can score on anyone.........Fizer cannot do that and that is his problem. He could at best be Corliss Williamson, but he doesnt have the patience to be that type of guy. He doesnt realize that he isnt a superstar and thats why he shoots too much and thats why he cant get off the bench. Not to mention the fact that he refuses to play defense. Fizer wouldnt fit this team at all, so there is no chance we will sign him. He is slow and plays a slowed down unathletic game. That is not a Knight type of player at all. For the same money or a little more I would gladly take your boy Stromile over him because he at least fits the type of player that this team is going for.

[Diesel]

Stromile is going to cost more than 1.5 - 2.0 million.

I think that Fizer's injury may be too much to try to work around... But Swift will be more than the MCE. I would start him at 5.05.

[Plainview1981]

So by your logic, you would say that Boris is a smarter palyer than the old nasty black hole... Paul Pierce."

Paul Pierce is an allstar. Marcus Fizer was a bench player

on one of the worst teams in the league. Paul Pierce has

had to shoot because Boston has had so few options over

the years. Where does Fizer compare? One had to force shots

due to lack of options and the other forces shots because

he thinks he is better than he actually is.

"Don't you think that some of this is coaching?"

You blame everything on coaching. You always seem

to blame all failures on coaching. Try something

new for a change.

There is a reason Fizer couldn't get playing time on

one of the worst teams. There is a reason the 4th pick

in the draft from a few years would have to except the

league min... Answer, he isn't a very good player.

[TheDude]

Just as a heads up, before Jason Kidd arrived Martin had played like 1 year of basketball because of his broken leg so he was basically like a 2nd year player. i think it's not just kidd that helped his development, i think it's also just part of natural development of his game.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Fizer would be a bad pick up by the Hawks, because he does have some issues, and you will see that it will be hard for him to find a team fast.

Bad for the Hawks.

[Traceman]

not necessarily about winning and losing. I think Elton Brand has heart but he has never played on a winning team. I don't think Eric Snow or AI lost their heart last year because the team was bad. I don't think Stephen Jackson lost his heart last year because the team was bad. As for Sheed, I've ALWAYS thought he played with heart, he just let his emotions distract him and his teammates from playing their best at times. He always competes hard though.

As for K-Mart being unhappy in a losing environment, I would hope that he would be unhappy with losing. I think he would do everything he could to help us win even if we were losing. Give me guys like K-Mart and Jax all day because I know they will try their best to win.

[Diesel]

You make it sound like some people just don't mind losing? Heart is a subjective term that doesn't mean much at all... I think all players have a desire to win...

When it gets Subjective is the when critics start throwing the word Heart around like it makes a difference.

For Years, AI has played with So much "HEART"... Yet, he's not a team player, He shoots more than any other player save Walker. His need to be the man sometimes overshawdows everything else he does and causes his team to lose.

The same with Jax. I hated Jax for the first half of the year last year. All he did was come down take Ill timed Shots and shoot us out of games.. Then because he gives a rant in the lockerroom, he has been annointed as the player with "HEART"...

While Reef spent the last 2 yrs being double and triple teamed, putting up 20/10 a night. With or without help trying to carry the team and because he didn't give a lot of these BS JT speeches, he's labeled a player with "NO Heart".

Subjective.

I was watching NBA Finals classic the other day and they were talking about the Bulls/Pistons 1990. I remember when the Pistons beat the Bulls in game 7. What I didn't know was that MJ chewed everybody out on the Bus going back home. You see before they actually won the championship, nobody talked about MJ's heart. However, MJ is the one who changed his game the most to win. If you want to measure "Heart" Look at what a player does for his team to win... Not what they say in the newspaper. JT can make silly quotes and pull back his shirt and talk about Heart all day... But he has yet to try to better himself as a PG or a defensive player. That's not Heart. Jax can talk about what we need to win championships and Play hard on every play, but until he learns to take good shots, it's not enough.

Heart is not what you say... It's what you do.

If you want to know what Heart is...

Tim Duncan.

KG

Ben Wallace.

even Odom.

These are guys who will change their games to make the team they play for Better.

[Traceman]

on my team any day. He is a big reason that the Nets have been successful over the past few years. NJ obviously recognizes that or they wouldn't be considering trading the games best PG in Kidd so that they could resign him.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Just another Kenyon Martin article, and it takes about his options. Does anyone think he will take the qualifying offer from the Nets, so he can have total freedom next season?

Not likely to me, but check the article out.

K-Mart's Options Click Me

[GDawg]

To K-Mart. He's agood player, more of a 'tweener than a pure power forward. He's a pretty good rebounder and a tough defender, though bigger PF's can give him fits. What he is not, is a player worth a max contract. Nor is he a player that you can build a team around. However, if we give him a max contract, we're essentially committing to building around him as opposed to making him a "piece in the puzzle". If we want to build a team that contends in the NBA, we'll need to do better than K-Mart as our cog. Considering the money that we'll have to pay to keep Childress, Smith, Diaw, etc. in the future, we can't commit more than $10 million a year to a player like Martin, who is a great roleplayer, but still a roleplayer. Not a centerpiece player; doesn't deserve centerpiece money.