Kenyon Martin looking to make visit

[Traceman]

They are looking to resign Camby and they already have Nene (who will be looking for big bucks in a couple of seasons). If they sign K-Mart to the max and Camby to a deal starting at around $8 M or so (his agent wants $10 M), they are going to be in trouble when it comes time to resign Nene. Remember, they are going to have to pay Carmelo eventually and Andre Miller has a nice contract as well.

As for Swift fitting better, it depends. If Swift can be had for $6 M and K-Mart will take $11 M, I too would take Swift. But if it is $10 M versus $7 M, I'm not so sure I wouldn't just pay the extra $3 M and take K-Mart. K-Mart is a proven winner while Swift is a talented player who has yet to live up to the hype. Will he ever realize his vast potential? Maybe, maybe not.

[Diesel]

It's one of the teams who has the money and the resources to pull it off. Denver will get Camby at 10, Kmart at 11 and will use Nene as a BU C/PF. Denver is in a position to win now because they have their team...

First off, we don't have our team. Overpaying Kmart will not help us. And in the future his contract will hinder our flexibility that we need to bring in a star.

[Traceman]

In addition, I'm not so sure we can get Swift for that little. Who says Memphis won't match that and then trade him later? I think we have a legitimate shot at K-Mart with a 6 yr/$75 million offer (starting at $10 million) and I think Swift will take AT LEAST 5 yrs/$36 million (starting at ($6 million).

If it takes the max to get K-Mart ($11 M) and Swift can be had for less than 1/2 that ($5 M), OF COURSE you take Swift. That is a no brainer. I just don't think that will be the case. Before it is all said and done, I think we will be looking at $10 M for K-Mart and close to $7 M for Swift. We may end up getting Swift because K-Mart chooses to go elsewhere (or back to NJ) anyway. That is fine with me. I just hope we don't have to overpay to get him.

[Diesel]

You have to realize that we are not the only team looking at Kmart. In fact, NJ just may be hell bent to keep him and trade Kidd. I mean, think about it. If they can find the right trade for Kidd, why not do it. Kidd is getting older and coming off of Knee Surgery and has a lot of years left on the large contract. NJ may trade him...

One possibility could be a Kidd/Kittles/Collins move for Shaq?

However, aside from that obvious NJ keeping Kmart... We are also in competition with Denver, with Utah and with Seattle. Seattle don't have all the money right now, but they may just dump some players for picks so that they can get him. But Denver is going to give Kmart a shot.

[Traceman]

Just not the max. I think they will try to address their SG needs in free agency and go hard after Ginobili or Q. Rich. I would be VERY surprised if they paid K-Mart the max if they are able to sign one of those guys because like I said, Nene will be looking for big money in 2 years and Carmelo will be looking for bigger money in 3 years. I could see them offering K-Mart a deal in the $8 M to $9 M a year range but we will be able to offer that as well.

Paying K-Mart $10M will hinder our ability bring in a star? No, paying Jason Collier, Joel Pryzbilla, Charlie Ward and Marcus Fizer in excess of $11 M next year (as you advocated in another post) will hinder our ability to bring in a star. You would rather have Pryz/Collier/Fizer/Ward than K-Mart? I certainly wouldn't. In fact, according to you, we can afford to pay K-Mart the max ($11 M) and still get Swift AND FOYLE next year!

[Traceman]

big man that we are interested in. You think Swift, Okur, Foyle, Blount, etc won't have interest from other teams?

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Detroit News wire services

* Kenyon Martin, forward, New Jersey: The Nets offered Martin to the Nuggets for Nene in a sign-and-trade deal. The Nuggets appear interested in Martin, but might try to offer enough money that the Nets won’t match the offer on the restricted free agent.

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This tidbit may also be found in the Rocky Mountain News....

[Diesel]

Sure we will.. But the competition for Kmart will push his salary up to Max terroritory. Don't forget, NJ already offered Kmart a 7 yr 66 million dollar deal last year.

[cyman3]

"Don't forget, NJ already offered Kmart a 7 yr 66 million dollar deal last year."

- all b/c he rejected that offer doesnt mean he'll get anything better in the future... ask Stephen Jackson!

but honestly, i dont want the hawks to offer anything MORE than that 7 year 66 million...

[Diesel]

By the rules we are limited to a 6 yr deal...

Still... He wants the max. Max with NJ would be 7 years 103 million. Max with us would be 6 yrs 84 million. These players are so agent driven. He knows that if he gets the max from either us or Denver NJ can't afford to match. So what we see is NJ trying to SNT him for Nene'. I'm sure if we had any talent, they'd come to us. And what Denver says is Hey... If we needed Kmart, we won't have to give up Nene' for him, we just will give him the max and you can't match...

So now we see NJ thinking about trading JKidd. It makes some sense because of the injury, the age, the contract, and his value around the league.

What would be surprising is Jkidd to LAC for Livingston and a host of picks?

[TheDude]

i think kenyon martin is a waaay better player than Swift. the intangibles he brings as far as energy, work ethic, and toughness would be key in helping to develop our players...HOWEVER with that said, i'd shoot for swift with lower money....unless it started raining pigs and he accepted a low offer.

[Traceman]

I think an offer starting at $10 M will get us in the discussions. That is all we can ask for. Denver may or may not offer that much and K-Mart may or may not rather play here than in Denver. Just because Denver wants him, who says he wants to go there rather than here? In Denver, Camby and Nene will get plenty of minutes so his PT may go down a little. In addition, their are rumors floating around about rifts between Carmelo and many nuggets players including Andre Miller, Nene and Camby. Will K-Mart want to be a part of all that? Maybe, maybe not.

[Diesel]

I think you see my point...

Kmart is not good enough to warrant giving him a contract that is double the amount that we can offer Swift. At best, Martin is an average rebounder. At best, Martin has very little midrange game. At best, Martin goes to the free throw line 4 times a game... That's not good enough for what he's asking for.

Swift on the other hand is a player who may only be a little better than he has shown for Memphis giving Starters minutes. Still, if we offer 5 year 36 million, he only cost us 5.05 million in the first year. That leaves a lot of money to spend on other free agents AND to save to have flexibility during the year.

The worst case scenerio in both cases is what if this guy flops...

If Swift Flops, we're only in for 5 years 36 million.

If Martin Flops, we're in for 6 yrs 75-84 million...

if you thought Hendu was bad....

[HAWKSFAN]

^^^LOL at this man thinking there's a possibility that Kenyon Martin will flop.

[JB20]

What incentive is there for Martin to sign with the Hawks? Yes he wants money, but he also wants to win. Winning and Atlanta don't go together, at least for a few years.

[Diesel]

Without Kidd, Martin was a 12 ppg, 7 rpg PF...

Please tell me that Kidd doesn't make those around him better???

[Traceman]

Sure Kidd makes K-Mart better on offense. Kidd makes EVERYBODY better on offense. But Kidd doesn't make K-Mart a shutdown defender and Kidd doesn't make K-Mart play with heart EVERY night. I remember seeing a stat where K-Mart kept nearly every guy he faced last year WAY below his average. I know he shut Reef down every time we played them.

As for K-Mart being a poor rebounder, he USED to be a below average rebounder but last year he averaged 9.5 boards per game. Those 9.5 boards per game were more than Reef has averaged in any season but one and nobody calls Reef a poor rebounder.

The thing that I like about K-Mart is that he had a perceived weakness (rebounding) so he worked on it and made it a strength. The guy takes pride in what he does and he sets a great example for young guys with his passion for the game. At $10 million a season, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Sure Kidd makes K-Mart better on offense. Kidd makes EVERYBODY better on offense. But Kidd doesn't make K-Mart a shutdown defender and Kidd doesn't make K-Mart play with heart EVERY night.

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Winning makes people play with Heart... That's all. A few years ago in the playoffs, Tmac was scoring 50 points against the Hornets and people were saying, he's playing with so much HEART... However, what happened during the losing streak this past year? Did he all the sudden lose his heart?

It's so subjective, this idea of HEART and "playing with Heart"... You leave Kmart in Atlanta and let him taste losing and we will see what kind of Heart he has. I believe it would be similar to the kind of Heart he had when Marbury was in NJ.... Or maybe it would be the kinda heart he displayed with Van Horn...

Let me freshen your memory....

Quote:

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 "I said some things last night that I probably shouldn't have said," Martin said Thursday. "I was a little disappointed, so the emotions got over me a little bit. But, we had a great year. We had a good run. It's been fun."

 It didn't sound like fun on Wednesday night after Martin scored a career-high 35 points in the 113-107 loss in Game 4.

 "I can deal with losing," Martin said. "But guys who don't bring it every day, that's something I can't deal with."

 Martin never identified who he was talking about, but it was obvious it was fellow forward Keith Van Horn. Martin told people to look at the statistics, and Van Horn scored seven points in the final game.

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You see Trace, this is easy to say after losing the Championship because that's the big one. What happens night in and night out when Kmart sees JT playing his brand of Olay defense and shuffling his feet on the way down court to play defense...

So what's HEART? Is it something only winners have? Before this year, Rasheed or Rashweed displayed No heart. I've heard him called Thug and all kind of other things... however, put him in a winning siutation and he's the "heart" and soul of the Pistons....

My point is that it's all relative. However, if you take Kenyon away from that winning atmosphere, you will have a very unhappy player on the floor with this rebuilding team...

[Plainview1981]

Fizer is a HORRIBLE basketball player. I wouldn't want

him on my team even at the league min. He should be in

the leagues minor league thing. He plays for himself. TO

want him on your team shows stupidity. There is a reason

no team seems to want him.

[cyman3]

yea, i rather take a chance on a NBDL guy than take MARCUS FIZER...