Diesel's World Famous Trade of the DAY....

[Guest]

Shareef scored 21PPG,but you realize that O'neal scored

19PPG with more options.Shareef would probably average

about 19PPG with Indiana aswell.

"Reef can also play two positions almost equally well. He's

every bit as good a SF as O'Neal is a Center."

That's not true.O'neal is a top defender at either position,but

Reef is a average defender at the 4 and a subpar defender

at the 5.

"Reef also averaged twice as many apg (3.1 to 1.5) "

That might be true,BUT Pacers use PG's more effective and

so O'Neal isn't required to pass as much.

Your right on the steals tho.

But the fact that O'Neal isa top defender at his position puts

him over the top.

[Diesel]

Reef is a more dominant scorer than Oneal. Reef just has a variety of ways to score. Had Reef been in Indiana, he would have scored more than 21 ppg because he would have been open MORE. Here he was double and triple teamed most nights. That's why I say we need a third option on offense. Somebody who can score 20 a night and take some pressure off of Reef.

Once the pressure is off, touches won't matter.... His conversion percentage would be far better. That's scary when you really think about it. Reef is already shooting 50%. Get a guy who can score and pass like Rose in here and Reef's Shooting percentage might sky rocket!

Oneal is better defensively... However, Reef is still the better player for now. Like I said, Oneal has a better upside because of his defense. However, Offensively, he might not ever be as good as Reef. I don't see Oneal being capable of scoring 50 points under any circumstance.

[Guest]

Reef is already shooting 50%. Get a guy who can score and pass like

Rose in here and Reef's Shooting percentage might sky rocket!"

How does 46.1% get up to 50%?

" I don't see Oneal being capable of scoring 50 points under any circumstance. "

How many times do we got to go over this?Willie Burton and Tony

Dlek have the ability to score 50 points but O'Neal doesn't?lol

O'Neals better rebounding/defense/blocks put him above Reef and

it will be even more clear this year as O'Neal will average 22PPG/11RPG/

2BLK

[Hawksfreak]

If you think O'neal is better then Reef then you on crack because Reef has done 20ppg 10rpg his whole career um...O'neal 1 year.

[Guest]

O'Neal also plays in the playoffs while Shareef plays golf wearing

the Kenny Smith fishing hat.

"f you think O'neal is better then Reef then you on crack because

Reef has done 20ppg 10rpg his whole career "

What's the career playoff stats?nada thing.

[Hawksfreak]

UM........Lets see look at not the Hawks are wayyyyyyyyy better then the Pacers! You a Pacer's fan? Stop Puffin weed you need to just stop puffin!

[Admin]

Oneal will NEVER be the caliber of scoring machine that Reef is capable of. If Reef wanted to, and if he had the talent around him he could average close to 30 a game I have no doubts about that. Anyone remember the 50 point game against the Pistons? He had the leagues best defensive post player on him, Ben Wallace......Reef almost broke Wallaces ankles crossing him over and then taking it to the cup for a nasty dunk. He has the ability when he is in the groove to score on ANYONE in the league. Nobody can shut him down in the post when he is on. If he could cut down on his turnovers he would easily be as good as Webber. His defense is underrated also. He isnt a liability out there like Nazr is on defense, however he isnt the game changer that Theo is. Oneal is far better defensively, but we really need Reefs dominating scoring ability in the post to go along with Theos defense. They are a perfect compliment to one another. Theo/Oneal wouldnt be as good overall as Theo/Reef.

[Guest]

Maybe you need to get realistic.We stink right now.Fans of

every other team make in fun of us because of our lack of

a future and not having a superstar player.We are a 33 year

win team that has the potential to win 43 games and a first

round exit.That isn't winning to me.It might be good enough

for you,however just like Babcock you don't have expectation

set very high.

[Guest]

If he could cut down on his turnovers he would easily

be as good as Webber."

Come on Dolfan,you know better than that.Webber boards

better than Shareef and his defense is way better.Webber

has a overrated jumpshot,but other than that he is alot

better than Shareef.

"Reef almost broke Wallaces ankles crossing him over and

then taking it to the cup for a nasty dunk. He has the ability

when he is in the groove to score on ANYONE in the league"

LOL dude is was one ball game.Webber shut Reef down in the

first game we played the Kings but I do admit that is the only

guy I've seen shut Shareef out.When we play the Kings and

Shareef/Webber go one on one Shareef looks way overwelmed.

[Admin]

I understand that you like to be negative but you have absolutely no proof that we are a 43 win team next year. We could win less, but more than likely we will win more than that. Hell even as injured as we were last year and without having Ira for most of the year we still won 35 and we could have won several more that Lon got outcoached in at the end. He will learn from thos mistakes and our guys will come back better. JT will be the full-time PG and our bench will be stronger. No reason to think that we wont improve by at least 8 games with those reasons, then you add in Theo replacing Nazr at center and thats another 5-7 wins. Honestly I dont see us winning less than 45 and more than likely 50 if we stay healthy and are able to add one more solid player this offseason. I dont know who you are talking to, but most of the guys I talk to on the net and that I talk to in person think the Hawks have a very bright future. How many teams have a better inside/outside combo than the Hawks with Reef/JT? Not many. What would it hurt you to be optimistic once in a while?

[Admin]

Because Reef is getting double and triple teamed in the post every game and Webber almost never does. If we add one more perimeter threat and if Theo can contribute on offense I promise you that teams wont be able to double and triple team SAR so often.

For the record also, Webber averages 1 more RPG than SAR does, so I wouldnt consider that much better. If SAR had as many one on one matches as Webber does I bet SAR would get that extra rebound by way of the offensive board and they would be equal. I am not saying that SAR is as good as Webber, but if he had less double and triple teams on him and if he cuts down on his turnovers some he will be just as good as Webber. You also need to keep in mind that Webber has been in the league 3 years longer and has played the last few with a much better team and from that team getting deep into the playoffs recently he has gained much more confidence. He also has better players getting him the ball too. Put SAR on Sac and Webber on Atlanta and there stats would come close to flip flopping.

[Diesel]

So now you think Oneal is able to score 50? Remember who Reef played against... The Leagues best defender. Made him look like a lost child standing at the blue light special in KMART.

Reef would score more if he wasn't doubled so much...

Speaking of which,

Have you ever seen Oneal play through adouble?

Probably not. Because in the beginning of the yr, there was Rose and Miller to contend with. In the second half, he had Miller, Miller, Mercer, and Artest.

Reef had Nazr and IRA? Big Joke.

[Guest]

"What would it hurt you to be optimistic once in a while?"

Well I tried that last year and i got burned.I was as optimistic

as anyone last offseason until I seen us get whiped on the

court and that brought me back to reality.

"but you have absolutely no proof that we are a 43 win team

next year. We could win less, but more than likely we will win

more than that. Hell even as injured as we were last year and

without having Ira for most of the year we still won 35 and we

could have won several more that Lon got outcoached in at the

end. He will learn from thos mistakes and our guys will come back

better."

Your forgetting about the Bucks/Knicks/Detroit/Washington/Bulls

will all be better teams next season.

"then you add in Theo replacing Nazr at center and thats another

5-7 wins."

I have to agree with Diesel here.I don't think Theo is the game

changer you think he is going to be.Theo isn't a true allstar just

like Dale Davis and Chris Gatling were not true allstars.

Simply there are are too many teams more talented than us or

have bigger stars than us:

Indiana-More talent

New Orleans-More talent

New Jersey-two words,Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson

Boston-One word,Paul Pierce

Knicks-Have everything but a PG

Wizards-Michael Jordan

Bucks-More talent

Bulls-Even they with Rose and their youth have more talent overall

Miami-Don't think they are great,but they wouldn't have missed the playoffs

had not started off so bad

Orlando-Tmac/Hill/Miller and possibly Keon Clark

Those are atleast 9 teams.We are more talented than Detroit,but

they find way to win games.Philly/Toronto I have to question for

different reasons.

Every time I have been optimistic about the team I have been let

down after our 11-0 start in 1997 all the way to last season.

I know you and Steve and the rest of the board hate my negitive

posts.but until we actually win games I can't help myself there.

[Hawksfreak]

Wait who said that we stink? C'mon guys we need to have faith this team is gonna go very far and we know it! By the way Dolfan23 great new signature!

[Guest]

We will see this year,I understand what you are saying

about double teams.But Webber can control a game alot

better than Shareef on a game to game basis.I'm not

talking about flash in the fan 1 50 point game here.

Webber also has the ability that you can run the offense

through him because he has awesome passing ability,and

I know Reef can make a nice pass or two,but they aren't

in the matter that Webber can pass out of he post very

well.

you say we will win 50 games,we will see this year=)

[Guest]

Most of the message boards,most non NBA fans and

there are a few that thinks we are playoff bound because

of Theo,but like Diesel says,he isn't the game changer people

proclaim him to be.I remember DJ shoving a basketball down

Theo's throat with a monster jam.

[Hawksfreak]

I think we have the potential of either that or 45 games we can do it I know we can. GO Hawks!