Follow this Link... Atlanta/Phoenix.

[Diesel]

http://suns.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.ph...;forum=27&0

[Guest]

Sun fans are gunna let you have it for this trade idea.

[Admin]

Hey it was nice to see you actually give SAR some props there, even though you dissed Diesel pretty bad with the ignore comment. I agree with you though, that deal would never happen IMO. We would have to throw in Dermarr to get a deal like that or Glover/first, which I would gladly to......but I dont think I would give them DJ.

[thatsmydawg]

I don't think this trade is that bad. Penny's contract is much worse than Toni's. Both can take over a game. Both will probably miss a bunch of games due to injuries. Also, If Toni retires a the end of the year won't we gain a ton of cap space.

That trade won't work capwise though. You would have to (I think) throw in Bo Outlaw and Dion to make it work.

Reef/Toni/Glover for Penny/Marion/Outlaw/Stoudamire

I can't decide which one I like best?????????????????????

IF Toni retires it would allow us to easily sign JT if he has a true "break out season"

[Diesel]

it.

In your shortsided View of what I proposed.

You say that Penny is better than Toni?? When? Maybe OLD Penny... But as I look, Penny has a very long BIG MONEY contract and he has had a Microsurgery gimmick that has never worked for Nobody who had it. PLUS Phoenix has about 5 SGs to replace him. He's deadweight that is killing their salary cap...

While TONI's contract ends after next season.

Penny makes what 12.4 million this season. Kukoc makes 9+. Phoenix would be happy to do that part of the deal.

More than Happy.

Secondly Sunsfan, I mean Hotlantadude, you said that SAR is only Slightly better than Marion. PLEEAASE.

Here's where your bias is totally wrong.

SAR is a top 5 PF.

Duncan, Garnett, Webber, and Shareef.... He's by far the best PF in the East.

What is Marion again?? Marion is a guy that doesn't shoot well but is very athletic. So his athleticism gets him a lot of rebounds. BUT he plays for a Poor Rebounding team.

You think that rebounding and putbacks make him equal to the BEST PF in the East??? Quit smoking the crack. SAR is MILES better. Not to mention that Marion rarely faces a double or a single team... He's not the focus of their offense. Go back to their playoff year with him. HE WAS SHUT DOWN.... When was the last time single coverage shut down SAR? Ask Ben Wallace..> DPOY how good SAR is? He will tell you he scored 50 on me this yr. Is Matrix Close to SAR??? Please.

Not even close.

So because we are letting them out of a contract that continues until Penny is making Damn near 16 million dollars 4 yrs from now... And Because SAR is MUCH MORE a FRANCHISE Player than third option Matrix... They should be happy to throw in Stoudamire the unproven...

[Guest]

You say that Penny is better than Toni?? "

Well Toni averages about 9PPG 3RPG 3APG but he is

on a HUGE decline and is older than Penny.

Stoudamire is having a big impact right now and the

Suns aren't going to give him away for free.

"

Duncan, Garnett, Webber, and Shareef.... He's by far

the best PF in the East. "

You can't seriousally be putting him in with those guys.All

those guys besides Shareef win games.And Duncan/KG don't

exactually play on the most talented teams in the league.

"You think that rebounding and putbacks make him equal to

the BEST PF in the East???"

Marion is a Small Foward.Talent wise Shareef is slightly better.

Shareef is only slighty better than Walker and O'Neal is the best

PF in the east with Dice being the second IF he is back to his

old self.Shareef is the 3rd best PF in the least ahead of Walker/

Martin/Coleman.

"Ask Ben Wallace..> DPOY how good SAR is? He will tell you he

scored 50 on me this yr."

You really got to get over one fluke game dude.

[Hawksfreak]

He does kinda sound Like a suns fan doesn' he?

[Guest]

And you sound like a little kid...wait a minute,you are a

little kid.Maybe you can find Beavis and Butthead on TV=)

[Hawksfreak]

I'm just kidding man god u can't take a joke? by your user name I know your a Hawks fan I was being sarcastic!

[thatsmydawg]

I loved that show.

Sorry hotlantadude, but Phoenix would be even dumber than I thought they were not to do that trade. I mean look at Penny's contract. How can anyone call this guy "Penny" with a straight face. Personally, I wouldn't do this trade because I think JT and SAR can be a force in this league but need more time to develop.

[Guest]

It doesn't matter....Marion/Stoudamire is better than Kukoc/SAR.

There starting lineup is pretty set,Jerry West and the media does

think highly of Stoudamire and he will not be traded.

Marbury/Johnson/Maxtrix/Stoudamire/Big Jake is the Suns future

and they aren't going to throw it away for Toni Kukoc.Sure he

gives them relief capwise,but I think Phx is set on that lineup

being their future anyway.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Stoudamire is having a big impact right now and the

Suns aren't going to give him away for free.

---

Having a big impact? Where?? In Summer League???? HAHA HA.

The three best players from Summer League last yr were Zach Randolph, Raja Bell, and DIon Glover. They had a big impact on Summer League... How did that translate for the season??

Also, didn't I just explain to you that it's not free.

In reply to:

---

You can't seriousally be putting him in with those guys.All

those guys besides Shareef win games.And Duncan/KG don't

exactually play on the most talented teams in the league.

---

Do you know anything about Basketball? :lol... First off, none of those guys win more games than SAR... Simply because NO ONE MAN CAN WIN A GAME. It's a team sport. So while you try to downplay these guys... Duncan plays with Robinson, Smith, Bowen, and Parker. Garnett plays with Wally, Billups, Brandon, and Smith. What does that have to do with how good they are.

In reply to:

---

Marion is a Small Foward.Talent wise Shareef is slightly better.

---

Quantify SLIGHTLY??

Maybe you could be mistaken. Let's put it all on the table.

SAR has been a 20/10 forward for the last 6 yrs.

SAR is an allstar.

SAR has been the focus of his teams Offense for the last 6 yrs.

SAR has been the leader of his team for the last 6 yrs.

SAR was the 2nd youngest player to have Scored 5000 points in the history of the NBA... Shaq = #1.

SAR has scored 50 points in a game. (There have only been 8 other episodes of a player going to 50 in the 90's and 3 others since 2000.)

SAR can play in the post and in the midrange.

What does Marion do??

What makes him "close"?

[Guest]

Having a big impact? Where?? In Summer League????

HAHA HA.The three best players from Summer League

last yr were Zach Randolph, Raja Bell, and DIon Glover.

They had a big impact on Summer League... How did that

translate for the season?? "

Jerry West likes the guy,so does everyone else...The Suns

aren't gunna give a basic lotto pick away for free.Don't be

stupid. Bell/Dion don't have the potential Stoudamire has

and Zach hasn't got a chance because of the same reason

O'Neal didn't get a chance...so quit trying to use that.Surely

even a homer like you knows better.

"

Do you know anything about Basketball? "

After seeing your post about Kobe/Reef I think I have question

youre knowledge alot aswell as youre hometown trades.

"SAR has scored 50 points in a game. (There have only been 8

other episodes of a player going to 50 in the 90's and 3 others

since 2000.) "

Again,it's ONE game....ONE game what about all the others we lost?

"SAR has been the focus of his teams Offense for the last 6 yrs."

Yeah and were has it got those teams?

"What makes him "close"? "

He is ALOT more atheletic(Something that Shareef severaly lacks)

and his defense and his ability to run the floor.That is what makes

it close.

[chillzatl]

But I would trade Toni for Penny. While both are shells of their former selves, I think Penny has the ability to be more consistant than Toni does now. If we could get him for Toni/Hendu level players I would do it.

I wouldn't move Reef for Marion. I love marions game but he just hasn't shown he can be the "main guy" and i'm not sure he has the game to do it, yet. He could develop it, but it's not there yet. Reef is the more acomplished player and has shown that he can be the main option and handle all the attention and pressures that come with it.

Amare is a nice throw in. But we'd be taking two steps back and hoping it would eventually take us a step forward. No way to tell if it would payoff in the long term. We wouldn't win more games than last years team though, not in our first season.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

SAR has been the focus of his teams Offense for the last 6 yrs."

Yeah and were has it got those teams?

"What makes him "close"? "

He is ALOT more atheletic(Something that Shareef severaly lacks)

and his defense and his ability to run the floor.That is what makes

it close.

---

This shows the shortsidedness of your view. What makes you think that Shareef lacks Athletic ability? He's a 20/10 player. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HIS ABILITY TO PUT ON A SHOW? Dunk championships have nothing to do with winning. It's hilarious that you think a third option SF who can only DUNK is CLOSE to A top 5 PF who has been a scoring machine since he has been in the League.

Very Similar... Would you have traded Dominique for Ron Harper in their primes? That's what it's equivalent to. Harper was about a third option Gaurd. He was more athletic and defensive than being a scorer and NIQUE was a scoring machine who played enough defense to get by?

According to YOUR logic, they should have been close. Forget the fact that Nique was an Allstar. Forget the fact that Nique carried his team (much like SAR has done his whole career) that fact that Harper was athletic should have made him close... Right???

[Guest]

What makes you think that Shareef lacks Athletic ability?"

1)He doesn't run the court very fast.I'm saying he is fairly

slow and he is.

2)He struggles to get any jump on his shot and does have a

hard time getting his shot over people in the post sometimes.It

looks like it just takes everything he has to get his shots off

alot of times.

"Would you have traded Dominique for Ron Harper in their primes?

That's what it's equivalent to. Harper was about a third option

Gaurd. He was more athletic and defensive than being a scorer

and NIQUE was a scoring machine who played enough defense

to get by?"

Nique had playoff games(or atleast first and second round)to

his credit and he was what?A 9 time allstar.Shareef going to

the allstar game is debateable by alto of people.

"Forget the fact that Nique carried his team (much like SAR has

done his whole career)"

Nique teams had a winning record every season besides 1992?.

SAR has yet to have one.That is a big difference in carrying

teams.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Would you have traded Dominique for Ron Harper in their primes?

That's what it's equivalent to. Harper was about a third option

Gaurd. He was more athletic and defensive than being a scorer

and NIQUE was a scoring machine who played enough defense

to get by?"

Nique had playoff games(or atleast first and second round)to

his credit and he was what?A 9 time allstar.Shareef going to

the allstar game is debateable by alto of people.

---

First off, let's break down your silly logic. You suggest that Playoff games makes a player good or bad??? How so? I guess you mean that Andre Miller ain't crap. I guess you mean that up until this past yr, Paul Pierce hasn't been good?? I guess you mean that Pau Gasol Sucks? I guess you mean that Antwain Jamison and Antonio McDyess are not so good?? How many times must I tell you that there are no such things as ONE MAN TEAMS? ONe man will never elevate his whole team into the playoffs. If so, the Wizards should have been there last yr. If So, Andre Miller should have taken Cleveland. Basketball is a team Sport. Nique labored Many yrs and never made it out of the second round. Tmac is a great player but he gets swept in the first....

Secondly, who debates Shareef's allstar appearance. Find ONE PERSON who debates it... Who should have gone in his place????

Kmart? Oakley? Davis?

Who???

[Guest]

First off, let's break down your silly logic. You suggest that Playoff

games makes a player good or bad??? How so? I guess you mean

that Andre Miller ain't crap. I guess you mean that up until this past

yr, Paul Pierce hasn't been good?? I guess you mean that Pau Gasol

Sucks? I guess you mean that Antwain Jamison and Antonio McDyess

are not so good?? How many times must I tell you that there are no

such things as ONE MAN TEAMS? ONe man will never elevate his whole

team into the playoffs. If so, the Wizards should have been there last

yr. If So, Andre Miller should have taken Cleveland. Basketball is a team

Sport. Nique labored Many yrs and never made it out of the second round

. Tmac is a great player but he gets swept in the first.... "

You are the one said Reef"carries"his teams.My point is he carries is teams

to where?NO WHERE

The difference is Tmac is a good all round player and Nique was just

a scorer with some decent rebounding seasons.Nique has more heart

than a Tmac and a more likeable personality though.

"How many times must I tell you that there are no such things as

ONE MAN TEAMS"

So quit saying he carries the team when JT has as close or more impact

on our games as he does.Remember JT was the one who hit the game

winners againest Chicago and Cleveland.

Kevin Garnett carries his team,Gary Payton carries his team,Steve Francis

will carry his team next year and Tim Duncan carries his team.Shareef

doesn't"carry"us the way those guys carry their team.And until he does

this will be said.Maybe that changes this year?Shareef is only 25 so we

shall see....

"Secondly, who debates Shareef's allstar appearance. Find ONE PERSON

who debates it... Who should have gone in his place????"

Go ask around on the net I'm sure it isn't hard to find some.I think he

deserve it,but I've heard people debating it on different message boards.

Alot ot people thought Ben Wallce deserved it instead.

If Shareef is SO much better than why do you want to do the trade

anyway?After all,we are giving up so many great things.Shouldn't we

keep them?

[BlackHawkDown]

This is annoying I like you alot diesel your post are sharp and intelligent and on the AA board your trade thoughts were pretty good. Because of this I haven't come to the Trade forum just to avoid arguing with you. But this has gotten ridiculous 99% of your trades are either pointless or stupid. You post a trade everyday but few of them are even reasonable. Why would I move SAR for Penny and the Matrix sure I get rid of that hack Kukoc but I get another Hack in Penny. Although Stodamire is a good pickup this trade just doesn't make us better.

Diesel please you are one of the smartest people on the board but these trades are making you lose legitimacy.

[Guest]

I mean damn I said Reef is better and he is.Go look at the

posts over there were you suggested that trade.I schooled

those fans pretty good.They pissed me off pretty badly.

I'm done with that board.I smacked those two around

enough.We are bad,but I'd rather be us that a Suns

fan.That team is gunna be stuck in the middle of no

where for years to come due to all the talented teams

in the west.Rockets/Clippers/Memphis/Warriors all have

more talent than PHX has.Let them keep their team that

has no chance in the west.

Fans like those is the reason I rarely post on REALGM

messageboards.