Diesel RANKS the Coaches.

[Diesel]

1. Rick Carlisle. Going into last season, I thought that there was no hope for Detroit. They had a Ball Hog and a Defender. Carlisle's coaching was the difference.

2. Jim Obrien. Another case of Talent being pulled out of nowhere. The Celts overcame their horrid FG% and showed that offense can win.

3. Rick Adleman. Nobody ever gives this guy credit but he deserves it.

3. Byron Scott. I think tied with Adleman is Scott. He did with NJ what Nobody expected. Sure it's nice to have Kidd... But after that what is there?

5. Alvin Gentry. For years this guy has been deserving of his own team. Back in Detroit he showed that he could do it. Well, with the youngest squad in Basketball... Gentry shined.

6. THE GREAT ONE Lenny Wilkens. So there's a lot of Lenny hate on this board. Had Kruger done what Lenny did... We'd be throwing Kruger a Parade. What did Lenny do? With his team looking to sit out the playoffs, Lenny motivated his guys minus his best player to go on a 14 game winning streak and steal a playoff spot. Had SAR been injured and we won inspite of, we'd be looking for COY applause for Kruger. Now... let's see how hypocritical we can be.

7. Phil Jackson. If I just looked at results, I would say Phil deserves to be much higher. BUt he has the BEST PLAYERS in the game. I don't have to wonder why Phil turned down the NJ job 2 weeks before he took the Lakers Job. It had nothing to do with Heart, It was all about Talent. Phil needs the games most dominant player. Ini other words, Just about anyone could have coached that team.

8. Doug Collins. With an aging Jordan, Collins was able to reach these guys. That's basically what coaching is. Reaching your team and Making them play better.

9. Nellie. Why isn't Nellie Higher? Because with the talent he has afixed around him, his team is about where they should have been.

10. Big Mo Cheeks. Yep. PTL didn't do much but I believe that Mo had the worst job of any coach in the game. He had to find a way to minx and mix those attitudes. And when you're talking Wells, Wallace, Anderson, and Pippen... Woah Mama!!

That's my top ten from last yr.

Where's is Kruger... well, closer to 30 than he is to 20.

[Guest]

I like Alvin Gentry,but I'm waiting on hopw the Clippers turn out

next year before I make a real judgement on him.I think you have

Lenny alittle high.I'd rate him somewere in the late teens.

[hawkster411]

I'm actually excited to watch the Clippers. I can't believe what I am saying, but it's true. The Clippers have made some long strives to get where they are now. The organization is getting some respect. I can't wait till the season starts.

[BlackHawkDown]

I disagree with the carli at the top spot but I could see why with Detroit. Collins is Top 15 maybe top 10 I dont think so. Why isnt Doc top 10.

BHD top 15

1. Doc

2. Nate McMillian - took a horrible team to contention

3. Maurice Cheeks - took a horrible team to contention

4. Silas

5. Scott

6. Lucas - leagues best kept secret

7. Alvin Gentry - Most underrated coach in the league

8. Phil Jackson - When he does something with a sorry team

then he will get the 1 slot

9. Jim O'Brien - record speaks for itself. Could be as high as 4

10. Bill Cartwright - never had decent team to work with.

11. Rick Adelman

12. Jerry Sloan - Maybe should be high as #7

13. Rudy Tomjonovich

14. Sydney Lowe - never had decent team to work with.

15. Frank Johnson

.....

27. Lon Kruger - DUMBASS OF THE YEAR AWARD

[Guest]

I don't think Diesel is a fan of Doc.I remember how much he didn't

like Doc being coach of the year a few years ago.

[BlackHawkDown]

Diesel Post your Top 50 Players

[Traceman]

and yet you think Adelman is underrated? I don't get that logic. The Kings are the most talented team in the league 1-12. I agree that Adelman is one of the better coaches but I don't see why Nellie and Phil get penalized in your book and Adelman gets a pass.

I agree with you that Carlisle is a good coach as well. He definitely belongs high on the list based on what he did with what he had last year. I still think Doc Rivers continues to do a remarkable job without having a great team. O'Brien has been impressive since he took over for Pitino, Saunders continues to get all those scrubs and KG to the playoffs and Silas always has his team in contention despite all the injuries.

There are a lot of good coaches in the NBA and it's hard for me to rank the top 10 but Lenny DEFINITELY ain't one of 'em. you want to give him credit for pulling the team together without there best player but look how many games they lost in a row WITH him! I guess once TOR starts losing early in the season, you'll blame VC and say he needs to be traded.

[Diesel]

Actual what has Doc Done??

He took a team with good players (not great players) and showed that they can have a mediocre Season and lose in the first round of the playoffs. I think Doc did better coaching in his first yr when he had NO talent. Guys like Wallace owe their careers to Doc. BUT.. This yr. He had: Armstrong, TMac, Miller, Grant and he couldn't win much more than half of his games. I give Gentry a little more credit because Gentry did it with very Young players.

[Diesel]

Not only does Phil and Nellie have a lot of talent (1 part) but they also have a lot of Experience (Part 2).

Now I think if we were talking about coaching through transitioning, Nellie would be top 3 because Cuban doesn't keep a stable lineup.

However:

The difference with Adleman is that Adleman wins with Young players. Vlade, Webber, and Christie aside... There are nothing but YOUNG inexperienced guys playing for Adleman... And he wins with them. That's the mark of Good coaching. NOT if you can win with 2 of the best players in History and a squad full of EXPERIENCED Role players. BUT Can you win with a couple of guys who have been in the league less than 5 yrs:

Peja, Bibby, Jackson, Turk, Pollard.... Even Fundaburke have all been in the league less than 5 yrs.. Really 4 yrs. Adleman has gotten them to learn the game.

The other difference about Adleman... Adleman gets these guys to play in the system that he designs. As great as Webber is, He miss almost a month of the season and they still win without him. That was not really about talent, but that was about coaching.

In reply to:

---

ere are a lot of good coaches in the NBA and it's hard for me to rank the top 10 but Lenny DEFINITELY ain't one of 'em. you want to give him credit for pulling the team together without there best player but look how many games they lost in a row WITH him!

---

Yeah... With him being injured.

However, how many people here say that the team is just Vince and a lot of overpaid jokers. Lenny did a really good job of getting these guys to play over their heads... However he gets no credit.

I would love to see the day when SAR goes out for a few games and the Hawks continue to win without him. Even if we had loss 52 games with him... We'd be ready to make Kruger Coach of the yr.

[Guest]

Rick might have also made the biggest mistake in leaving Bobby

out at the time he should have been in.Phil Jackson didn't make

that mistake.I think Rick A is overrated.He makes terrible choices

sometimes and possibly the biggest one in Sactown history.

[KB21]

Well, I guess that is your opinion.

Mine:

1. Phil Jackson -- Bulls couldn't win with Jordan until Jackson took over. Lakers couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe until Jackson took over. Phil's coaching is the difference.

2. Larry Brown -- Gets the more out of the talent he has than any coach in the league.

3. Rick Carlisle -- Polished chicken crap last season and made it look like something different.

4. Doc Rivers -- Falls into the category of getting the most out of the talent he has.

5. Byron Scott -- Has made a meteoric rise to the top of the coach list.

6. Nate McMillan -- Did a terrific job with a less than average Seattle team last season.

7. Paul Silas -- Very underrated coach.

8. Mo Cheeks -- It is a shame he coaches a bunch of overpaid prima donnas.

9. Jerry Sloan -- Just gets results.

10. Rudy Tomjanovich -

[Diesel]

I don't think so.

Phil is in the right place at the right time with the right people.

First off, he always has the most Dominant player in the game (Jordan/Shaq). Second, he always have another dream team type player to play alongside him (Pippen Kobe). Third, he always catches his team as a dynasty is ending.

Phil showed up at the tail end of the BAD BOYS.

Phil Showed up in LA as The Bulls were dismantled.

4. Sometimes Phil gets his team to win by the skin of his teeth...

How did Jordan and Co beat the MIGHTY KNICKS?

The payed the refs to throw out Pat Ewing during the series with Miami.... FOR Walking during a fight.

How did Shaq and the Lakers beat PTL?

Unprecedented call... Toss a Player for looking at a ref??

How did the Lakers beat S.A. in yr two?

Payed Juawaun Howard to break Derrick Anderson's clavical in the most vicious Flagrant Foul I have seen in yrs.

How did the Lakers beat the Kings in yr three?

A lucky play... I give them the vic over the Kings but the Kings had the better team.

Anyway, Phil has done well choosing teams that will be Media Giants.

[Guest]

Derek Anderson is a freakin 3rd rate player.The Lakers weren't

scared of this crybaby bum.Do you really think Derek Anderson

would have made a difference.....Reality....Derek Anderson isn't

even a above average starter.You are probably the only ine that

believes that loser would have made the different between a

sweep and a win?IF Derek Anderson is such a superstar how come

the Blazers got their butts kicked by the Lakers?Kobe tramples all

over Anderson and takes a dump on him afterwards.Anderson can't

compete with Kobe cause he sucks and was a overrated player

anyway.

[Traceman]

LAC is a LOT more talented than Orlando! Playing in the WC is definitely tougher than playing in the EC but LAC was getting their buts whipped by their fair share of EC teams as well, including the Hawks. When Gentry gets LAC to the playoffs, then I'll say he has done a good job but until then, he's just done what he's supposed to do. Whether they are young or not, LAC is a very talented team!

[Traceman]

Divac - 13 yrs

C Webb - 9 yrs

Peja - 4 yrs

Christe 10 yrs

Bibby - 4 yrs

vs

LaFrentz - 4 yrs

Dirk - 4 yrs

Buckner - 3 yrs

Finley - 7 yrs

Nash - 6 yrs

It's clear that SAC had more experience. A LOT more experience. They had more experience at every position except PG.

"Vlade, Webber and Christie aside?" That's 3 starters, 2 of whom are All Stars! Two All Star veterans is pretty significant don't you think? Turkoglu was really the only inexperienced player in SAC's rotation.

[BlackHawkDown]

I could agree with alot of your list all my top coaches are in your top 10 for the most part. But I disagree with you about Larry Brown I think he is a hack. He seems to alienate people. He embarrases Iverson publically instead of talking to him privately. I just flat dont think he desereves the 2 spot.

I think Alvin Gentry deserves the top 10 also but I could understand why you would leave him off he hasn't fully proven himself yet.

Pretty Good list in my opinion.

[Diesel]

 10 Mike Bibby 4

 52 Chucky Brown 13

 13 Doug Christie 10

 8 Mateen Cleaves 2

 21 Vlade Divac 13

  Corsley Edwards R

 51 Lawrence Funderburke 5

 24 Bobby Jackson 5

 31 Scot Pollard 5

 25 Brent Price 9

 16 Predrag Stojakovic 4

 5 Hidayet Turkoglu 2

 3 Gerald Wallace 1

 4 Chris Webber 9

Of their lineup... Only Webber, Price, Christie, Brown, and Divac have over 5 yrs (4 yrs last yr).

9 Tariq Abdul-Wahad 5

 44 Shawn Bradley 9

 42 Evan Eschmeyer 3

 4 Michael Finley 7

 7 Adreian Griffin 3

 5 Avery Johnson 14

 45 Raef LaFrentz 4

 14 Eduardo Najera 2

 13 Steve Nash 6

 2 Johnny Newman 16

 41 Dirk Nowitzki 4

  Mladen Sekularac R

 31 Nick Van Exel G 9

 16 Zhizhi Wang (FA) C 2

Only Lafrentz, Wang, Giffin, Lafrentz, and Wahad..have less than 5 yrs experience. The majority of their minutes go to vet players. And On the season.. When they had Howard and not Lafrentz..... the only inexperienced (5 y less) player that they had playing was dirk.

However, Adleman used Rookie Gerald Wallace. He used Bobby Jackson and Mateen Cleeves. He used Turk. He uses every young player he has because he does coaching. I'm not saying that Nellie isn't a good coach (and I noticed you left Phil out of this discussion because truth be known, Lenny uses more young player than Phil... Right?). Nellie is probably the best coach I have seen when it comes to having lineup changes. BUT... Adleman had done a super job (and continues to do it) building his young players. 2 yrs ago, Turk. Last yr, Gerald Wallace playing in the playoffs. It's the real sign of a good Coach. What does he do with young players?

[Guest]

this argument's futile. You've got to define what an NBA coach is before starting the argument because, contrary to popular belief, being an NBA Head Coach has much less to do with developing players and more to do with maximizing matchups and getting the players, who's skills were suposedly/hopefully already developed at lesser levels. IMO, qualities of an NBA Head Coach are as follows:

- can motivate players to work together, stats be damned.

- is able to react to the opposing coaches substitutions on the fly (Nellie is the best on the fly coach I've ever seen)

- encourage players and keep their confidence high while a) a person is in a slump, or b) when they're not getting the pt that the player thinks he deserves

much like the NFL, the Head coach's duties regarding development are limited as he has many other duties. Because bball players have to play both offense and defense, there's no "offensive coordinator" and "defensive coordinator," but I assure you, each of the assts. have their roles and responsibilities concerning these matters...

to that end, I think the arguments about Phil as a coach are often out of line because the people involved don't take the "orchestra conductor" part of coaching into account. At every other level (college, HS, etc.), the overall ability of the players on a team are not as close to equal as they are in the NBA. On almost every team, 8 of teh 12 players have "made it" and are established. Yet at the same time, almost every player on the team was a star at previous levels.

The ability to get players to set egos aside is overlooked in most coaching analysis. Phil's ability to do this is unquestionable. He may not develop the players as much, and he certainly does have to zest for practice that someone like Karl or Brown does. I'm not saying right or wrong, but Phil's approach to coaching is very different than most everyone else's. He assumes that the players know how to play the game and has good fundamentals (and encourages mgt. to not pursue anyone who doesn't) so that his team is built to have it's chiefs and indians. Everyone knows their roles. That's something that a few other coaches should take note of...

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

You've got to define what an NBA coach is before starting the argument because, contrary to popular belief, being an NBA Head Coach has much less to do with developing players and more to do with maximizing matchups and getting the players, who's skills were suposedly/hopefully already developed at lesser levels.

---

Sorry Charlie... This is BS. IN THIS CENTURY, a coaches job is to develop a player. IF it were all about matchups, coaching would be easy. Unfortunately, it's not. It's about getting the MOST out of every player you have available... AND in today's time that requires that a coach be able to develop his players.

I will agree that a player has to be willing to follow a coach.. However, that is the most minor part of a coaches JOB...Because Good Coaches Do not get the players to conform to his system... A good Coaches Changes his system to match his players!!!

That's why I cannot give Phil Jackson much credit.

Phil takes a veteran team. Shows them the triangle offense. Says to them ... Listen to everything that Tex Winters tells you about this offense. Then on Game night he takes this Experienced team and says... Alright guys.. Go out and win.

Is that good coaching?

Nellie is a good coach on Game day. He does a marvelous job of taking advantage of Matchups and playing the chess of Basketball... So does Larry Brown... So does Lenny... Really all that is is Experience..

BUT take my NUMBER 1 coach for this past yr.

He took a Ballhog.

He took a guy who could only defend.

He took a shot happy PG..

And all he did was MOLD Them. He develop Stack into a guy who liked passing as well as scoring. He used the teams strengths on defense to help them to conform to a defensive team that could hide their weaknesses. He was able to play the same game that Nellie plays... Except he had LESS pieces to play it with... BUT HE STILL WON!

That's why I rate him up there.

Developing a player IS the Coaches Job. Because once you have developed a player, you can get them to do all that other stuff that you are talking about.