What does Bibby's contract mean for JT?

[Diesel]

You know what makes the Kings so MIGHTY??

They are a good Passing team.

http://www.nba.com/kings/stats/

Look at the numbers, all 5 starters average close to 4.0 apg save Peja.

To keep it in perspective, Sac ranks 4th in team assists while we rank 26th.

[Guest]

Look at how much you overrated our" so called"great PF.JT won

more games at SG than Shareef won in Vancouver WITH MIKE

BIBBY.....How the hell does this happen?

Matt Maloney

JT

Romac

Lo

Mutombo(remember he missed close to a month of the season)

was our starting lineup at one time and we still were winning more

games than Bibby/SAR/Mike Dickerson winning.And you want to

trade JT?Who the hell else has a shot at leading this team??Sure

as hell isn't gunna be Shareef as his team got outplayed by us when

we had Matt Malonely/Romac(Neither are likely to play this year)and

Shareef had a 18PPG scorer in Dickerson and from your mind a better

player than JT.How did this happen Diesel.I guess it was all Bryant

Reeves was it?It was all his fault......It was all Big Rednecks fault

was it?

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

I like Bibby, but I think he's a little over-rated right now. You act like he's some great playmaker, he decent, but remember, the Kings offense goes through Webber, Divac, and Christie, and does not require him to create a lot. JT, even at shooting guard, was responsible for more of the Hawks offense than Bibby was for the Kings.

---

Moreover, the reason I showed his stats as a Grizzlie when he put up 8.5 assists, 8.1 assists, and 6.5 assists respectively over his three years there. Had he been here, he would have gotten about 8-9 apg. Whereas this is the first yr for Terry to be over 5.0 apg.

[Diesel]

Please. The only thing I have said is that JT is not as good a PG as Bibby.

If you guys would please stop deludding yourselves by saying he is, I would stop Busting JT's a** with the TRUTH.

BTW, I know that I'm right when your defense of JT because a Personal Attack of Diesel. What happen, you have no more defense for JT being better than Bibby as a PG? What's your point? Is the only reason JT a Better PG than Bibby because same ole Diesel brought it up??

:lol

[Guest]

Moreover, the reason I showed his stats as a Grizzlie when he

put up 8.5 assists, 8.1 assists, and 6.5 assists respectively over

his three years there. Had he been here, he would have gotten

about 8-9 apg. Whereas this is the first yr for Terry to be over

5.0 apg."

Yeah and Bibby lost with Shareef more than JT lost with us...That

tells me JT(as our only real option)had more impact in games

than Bibby had.With those 8APG came more losses and shows

Bibby had little impact on those games.They won less than

us with more offensive options.

Bibby played well in the playoffs when he is looking for a new

contract.It's no big secret Bibby wanted a contract and he

done what was needed to get it.He and his Derek Fisher like

playoff run.

[Diesel]

I was talking about if he was on our team...

It would be a pity and a shame for Bibby to have 5.7 apg with our team. He did 8.5 apg with a less talented Vancouver team.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Bibby is a better ballhandler, passer and decision maker than Steve Francis or Baron Davis too but he is not as good of a PG as either of them.

---

You don't know the difference between PG and Player. Francis is a better player than Bibby by virtue of his scoring, defense and rebounding. However, when you look at his ability to be a PG and lead his team, Francis IS NOT a BETTER PG THAN BIBBY. All the things you mentioned, Ballhandling, Passing, Decision making are the attributes of a PG. In other words, Good PGs can do these things well. For you to say that Francis is a better PG than Bibby when it's obvious that Francis is weak in all those categories and he probably leads the league in Turnovers... Suggests that you don't understand the difference between a good player and a good PG.

Last time for the slow...

Who's the better PG between Marbury and Kidd? Sure Marberry scores a ton of points. Sure JK has a horrid FG%. However, when we talk about being a Better Pg, it doesn't matter than Marberry has about a 5 ppg better average than Kidd. As a PG, Kidd knows how to Distribute. Kidd knows how to run an offense. Kidd might play a game and only get 2 or 4 points but KIdd is the better PG.

Same thing with Bibby Francis and Bibby Terry. Davis is a little bit different. His PGing skills are better than Terry's and Francis' so that would be a pretty good debate. However, these are not.

[Guest]

Diesel thank you for helping me slam Reef.We had more talent than Vancouver???

please!

Mike Bibby 15PPG 8APG

MD a 18PPG scorer

Shareef 20PPG 10RPG(yes he averaged 10RPG)

Grant Long

Bryant Reeves

Matt Maloney

JT

Romac

Lo

Mutombo(Again really wasn't ever healthy due to the sickness)

Romac only played 3 games after he was traded from here

and Matt Maloney doesn't have a job in the NBA.Lo was our

second leading scorer.And you said We had better than Bibby

had???You just slammed Reef yourself and you don't even know

it.Lo is better than Reef from what you are saying...You would

rather have:

Romac/MM/Mutombo/Lo than Shareef/Dickerson/Long/Harrington?Is

that what you are saying???

[Diesel]

Yep Hometowning.

Let JT play a Month with THIS TEAM...

Then Let Bibby play a Month with This Team...

Big Difference.

Put JT in Vancouver with That team.

Same JT that couldn't bring the damn ball upcourt without running directly into a trap??

Same JT that spent his rookie and sophomore yr as a pro allowing JR and JJ to run the offense while he set up for a shot.

You put that JT on Vancouver's team in Bibby's place and they would have lose every game.

YOU and Trace make the terribly mistake of looking at a team record. This is a team Game. No one player can cause a losing team to win. It's a combination of Coaching and players. Those Vancouver teams were built and coached wrong. No defense. However if you would exchange JT for Bibby, those teams would have lost even more than they did.

[Diesel]

Matt Maloney

JT

Romac

Lo

Mutombo(Again really wasn't ever healthy due to the sickness)

Did you forget JJ?

Did you forget after the trade, Toni/Nazr.

Nazr averaged 15/14 on his way to a new Contract.

Toni put up 3 triple doubles I'm sure.

Did you forget BK?

BK averaged 5.0 assists.

Sick or NOt, Deke average 14 rpg which was part of the reason LB wanted him so badly.

Thank you for showing how onesided you like to say things. It's laughable that you mentioned Romac being that I don't think he ever started for us?

[Guest]

Put JT NOW with than Van team compared to Bibby Now with

that Vancouver team and JT wins more games.Bibby without

the Kings had far less impact on games than JT had here as

THE ONLY FREAKIN OPTION.You damn right it is a team sport.

The only problem is with Romac/MM starting games we didn't

have much of a team.We sure didn't have another 20/10 player

on those teams like Bibby had.At that time we were dang near

close to one of the worst rosters to ever step foot on a NBA

court.

While Bibby was playing off of Shareef and Dickerson,Jt was

playing off Matt Maloney and Bimbo Coles.

"No one player can cause a losing team to win. It's a combination

of Coaching and players. Those Vancouver teams were built and

coached wrong. No defense. However if you would exchange JT

for Bibby, those teams would have lost even more than they did"

I'd say when Matt Maloney/Romac are starting your team is built

pretty damn bad wouldn't you?These guys will not even be in the

league next year.Bimbo Coles will probably be hiding on IR despite

the fact that Clevelands has no PG's(Waggs is a SG).

Talk about teams built and coached wrong?lol

[Guest]

Did you forget JJ?"

Remember,his job was took by JT.I also remember

he was playing pretty poorly that much and was

busy crying about JT taking his spot on the team.

"Nazr averaged 15/14 on his way to a new Contract.

Toni put up 3 triple doubles I'm sure.

Did you forget BK? "

I also remember we won more games in the first half of

the season than the second half of the season.Toni was

the typical guy who will play better on a terrible team

if you give him the ball.He averaged 18.8PPG for CHicago

but couldn't cut the mustard in Philly.

Mohammad averaged like 12PPG.

"Did you forget BK?"

Yes in fact he had a negitive on the second half of the season.He

is WHY we lost more games in the second half.Thanks for bring this

to my attention.If anything he hurt our team due to the small

backcourt and caused us to lose even more games.So many times

Brevin couldn't hit a open jumper.I remember alright.I remember how

this guy couldn't hit open jumpers and shot like 36%.

Brevin was horrible here!He might had made some nice assist,but alot

of times we just needed him to hit open jumpers and he almost never

steped up.

[Guest]

Jim Jackson?This dude barely had a job this season and almost

didn't play the season.His best year was a cutoff season on one

of the most dissapointing teams ever with JK and Mashburn.

JJ is not a impact player anyway.He has always been a journeyman

like Kukoc is now and puts up better numbers the worse the

team is.Some guys make impacts and some don't.After the Bulls

championship years Kukoc has been unable to play at a high

level with a winning team.Notice his numbers got worse and he

was less productive in the 2nd half of the season after we started

winning games.

[Guest]

Bottomline is that we can sit here and throw stones at each

other til the Sun goes down.But this is JT's biggest season.Either

we win with him as a PG,or as much as I hate to say it he does

need to be traded.We have a allstar frontline and a 6th pick

starting at SG...Either JT can get the job done at the point by

mid Dec or he probably will become a player who can't live up

to his expectations and needs to be traded.

However,I feet confident he will be able to get the job done.

[chillzatl]

that does not mean he's the better PG today. Based on natural ability I think Bibby is a better natural PG than JT. His natural inclination is to pass the ball, JT's is to score. That said I think JT will turn out to be the better PG as well as the better player, which I think he aleady is.

But again, assists alone DO NOT make one a good point guard. JT did an EXCELLENT job of protecting the ball as the season wore on. The knock that you and many others had against him vanished. He was not a liability with the ball in his hands and actually had one of the better a/to ratios among PG's. So the knock that he's not a good ballhandler is absolute rubbish. You also cannot say that he's not a very good passer. As the season wore on he proved that.

So your statement that he's "outclassed" is simply nonsense. If you compare their pro careers, sure. But you backed Bibby with his performance in ONE series, why not give JT the same benefit of the doubt and back him with his play in the 2nd half of the season??

[Traceman]

You said:

"YOU and Trace make the terribly mistake of looking at a team record. This is a team Game. No one player can cause a losing team to win. It's a combination of Coaching and players."

It IS a combination of coaching and players but one player DEFINITLEY can make a HUGE difference, particularly if that player is an impact player. Look at Houston. Houston was 25-31 with Francis in the starting lineup and 3-23 when he wasn't. That is what an impact player does. You think Vancouver would have only won 23 games in Bibby's last season there if Francis had been there in his place? Francis had nowhere near the supporting cast last year that Bibby did in Vancouver but he led his team to more wins than Bibby did despit the fact that he missed 25 games entirely and suffered from migraines in several others. Who did Francis have last year other than Mobley? Mobley is not much, if any, better than Dickerson and Houston had no one who's even close to Reef. I don't care if Bibby can do a few things better, the sum of the total parts make Francis is a better PG. Period!

JT is a better PG than Bibby too. I can't wait until JT does his thing at PG this year. All you naysayers will become believers. He might not be a so called "pure PG" but he is a BETTER PG than many guys who are pure PGs. Just like Francis.

[Guest]

Well and MJ was running the show pretty well for Washington

before he went down.They doubled their win total.....it sure

wasn't Kwame Brown that caused it.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Put JT NOW with than Van team compared to Bibby Now with

that Vancouver team and JT wins more games.

---

Nope, Sorry, but with JT, you lose about about 3 apg and which translates to about 6 ppg loosely. Namely, JT makes the offense more stagnant than they were. That team scored 91.3 ppg and gave up 110.6 ppg. Their problem was coaching. JT would not translate to wins. His stagnation of the offense would = Loses.

[Diesel]

Say what you want about JJ.

He averaged 14.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg for us while he played 2 and 3. DID you forget him? Yes you did.

Did you forget BK? He averaged 6.1 apg for us in a Starter/Bench role? Did you forget him? Yes you did.

Kukoc averaged 19.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, and 6.2 apg for the half season he played for us? Did you forget him?? Yes you did.

Say what you want to... But you have slighted that team. You put up what you wanted to see.... Romac, Deke, JT, Lo and Matt Maloney??? Thanks for your "insight" as to what the lineup was? How many more Bench players did you want to put upthere?? Next time why don't you try: Cal, Hanno, Dj, JT, and AJ??

[Guest]

I didn't forget them.None of them made us a better team ESP

Brevin.Vaughn almost matched Brevins numbers coming off the

bench....Would you want to add him to?Brevin Knight sucked.

"Say what you want about JJ.

He averaged 14.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg for us while he played 2 and 3.

DID you forget him? Yes you did."

JJ has never really done anything on a winning team.He along

with Toni only scores when there is no pressure to win games.

JJ only averaged 8PPG for Portland and barely cracked 10PPG

for the Heat that just barely missed the playoffs.

Kukoc averaged 19.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, and 6.2 apg for the half

season he played for us? Did you forget him?? Yes you did. "

Yeah and we lost more games with him that without...What does

that tell you?It tells me his stats were bloated.Notice how we

won more games this year he played a lesser role on the team.Because

Toni sucks now.And no that wasnt for a half of season either.I

believe the first half of the season is longer and I think Toni missed

close to 10 games in the second half anyway.

Remember JJ/Mutombo/Toni all missed chunks of the time that season

due to injuries and we still won more games then the"great"Mike Bibby

and Shareef"I was a 3rd pick and aren't even a top class PF"Rahim.

Vancouvers coaching was terrible???What about ours???Are you saying

that Lon Kruger is a much better coach than what Vancouver had?

The fact of the matter is we had:

less talent

3 or 4 different trades that shook up the team

Deke missed the first like 12 games due to sickness

we had [censored] for a PG

JJ cried because he isn't worthy of starting in the NBA anymore

Lon Kruger was a rookie head coach

and we still won more games than Bibby/Rahim could muster.It's easy

to tell why...because they are overrated.