What does Bibby's contract mean for JT?

[Traceman]

the All Star break. We were 19-16 with JT as our starting PG after the All Star break and we were 14-33 before that. It sure doesn't sound like he stagnated anything to me. In fact, JT averaged 20.7 ppg and 6.7 apg in that span. That is what you call stagnanting the offense? JT's assist numbers improved every month and he in April, he averaged 21.9 ppg and 7.8 apg. Those are All Star numbers for ANY PG!

I think we have a different take on what makes a player "better" than another player. You say that Bibby is a better PG than Francis but that Francis is the better player. Well is the PG not a player? Is Francis not a PG? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, how is Bibby a better PG than Francis?

Just because a player does not fit the mold of a prototypical player in a given position does not mean that player is not better than someone who does fit that mold. For example, Allan Houston is a prototypical SG but he is nowhere near the SG that Paul Pierce is. Houston is a better shooter and ballhandler than Pierce but who's the better SG? Same goes for Reggie Miller and Tracy McGrady. T Mac is not a prototypical SG, he's a multi-dimensional player, but he is a better SG than Miller.

[Guest]

Nope, Sorry, but with JT, you lose about about 3 apg and

which translates to about 6 ppg loosely. Namely, JT makes

the offense more stagnant than they were"

Tell me again how we managed to win more games here?We

had no second option...JJ is no second option...Sorry,but he

isn't even a 3rd option player.Micheal Dickerson is better than

him.

I can tell you why....cause Bibby's"clutch"shooting was non exsistant

and Reef was doing the same thing he does here...choke.I've heard

it from enough Vancouver fans.They lost alot of close games because

nobody could hit big shots.And sure enough it has stayed true on

one persons part while the other has free rides due to two other

allstars being on the team.

It's simple,bibby done nothing before a playoff run(when he was due

for a contract)besides average 7APG on a team that won 20 games.

He wasn't a winner in Vancouver and if he was there instead of JWIllams

they would still suck and have less wins than us even though Gasol

will be better than Shareef this year.

[Guest]

Mike Bibby couldn't hold Steve Francis jockstrap.

[Guest]

I really hate ripping either Bibby or Shareef like this.But the

fact of the matter is people continue to rip JT when Reef if

anything has as many problems.

1)Don't give him the ball in the 4th

2)He is a turnover machine

3)His average at best defense

4)He scores 21PPG but isn't a domainate player

5)Subpar ball handling skills

Reef has his weakness to.But people overlook those but bash

JT for averaging 20.2PPG 6.9APG...What the hell is that?

Just like the option department goes.Kukoc/JJ have never been

players you could count on.Toni had a good 18 games when we

didn't expect him to.However this year we expected him to do

a decent job as a 3RD OPTION and when we put expectations on

him he totally sucked.

And obviousally Diesel doesn't understand the crappy starting lineup

we had.While some are proud of DJ from last season,on any other

team he would be been seeing"DNP coaches choice"on ALOT of

games and Newble is a role player while all Nazr wanted to do is

fire jumpers.DJ/Ira/Nazr are backups.What the hell is JT supposed

to do???Average 10APG with 3 backups starting???Get real.

[BlackHawkDown]

I understand why you feel that Bibby is more of a natural PG, but fact is it isn't necessarily true. JT's offensive abilities overshadow his passing abilities, which is why JT appears not to be a good point. But the fact is he is better than he was 2 years ago he can handle the point. Bibby was probably better in college from what I have seen JT doesn't adjust as quickly as many others, but when he does he really takes off.

But Diesel I can see where you are coming from, your opinion isn't as absurd as many other are making it sound. But I do disagree JT IS MUCH BETTER THAN BIBBY.

Also like Reef Bibby flows with the team, as opposed to JT's more aggressive style.

[Guest]

Yeah people don't understand,but ESP this year when you

only have two guys that average double figures.JT HAD TO

SCORE....Mohammad regressed this season and took WAY

too many jumpers and our third leading scorer was Toni

at 9PPG?That's sad.

JT had no freakin choice but to score points.Nobody else

steped up.Diesel doesn't understand just how untalented

this hawk team has been over the last 3 seasons.Non hawk

fans will tell our roster has sucked.

Bibby is more of a free flowing PG,but I'd rather have JT because

he can break guys down alot more than Bibby.I'd like to see

Bibby do what he did over a full season.We have all saw CC and

Austin Croshere folks.Lets see that kinda game for a full year.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

"Say what you want about JJ.

He averaged 14.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg for us while he played 2 and 3.

DID you forget him? Yes you did."

JJ has never really done anything on a winning team.He along

with Toni only scores when there is no pressure to win games.

JJ only averaged 8PPG for Portland and barely cracked 10PPG

for the Heat that just barely missed the playoffs.

---

First off, this is major BS. JJ in Portland had to split time with Rider and Wells or did you forget that too. Secondly, why don't you focus on what JJ did here with Us? When we had Rider, JJ averaged 21 ppg. However, in the yr you mentioned, JJ averaged 14 ppg, almost 5 rpg at the 2/3. Regaurdless of what happened before or after, that's what he did while he was here but you're quick to forget JJ altogether and replace him with ROMAC?? What kind of S--- is that?

In reply to:

---

Yeah and we lost more games with him that without...What does

that tell you?It tells me his stats were bloated.Notice how we

won more games this year he played a lesser role on the team.Because

Toni sucks now.And no that wasnt for a half of season either.I

believe the first half of the season is longer and I think Toni missed

close to 10 games in the second half anyway.

---

Oh Please. Your knock on Toni is senseless. I guess sense during the same time, JT averaged the exact same 19.7 ppg that his stats were also bloated? Do you know how silly your statement is?

In reply to:

---

Vancouvers coaching was terrible???What about ours???Are you saying

that Lon Kruger is a much better coach than what Vancouver had?

---

Yes. Kruger is by no means a top tier coach. He sucks but he's not as bad as who Vancouver had. Vancouver gave up 110 ppg.... That means that there was absolutely no team defense. That's a coaching problem. Especially when both Bibby and SAR goes to other teams and shine.

[Guest]

Secondly, why don't you focus on what JJ did here

with Us?"

It's obvious he gave us very little.Why?Because he was

replaced by JT who is alot shorter and less experienced.

You also keep ignoring that fact that year we had some

many guys in and out of the lineup it wasn't even funny.

Mutombo missing a month,JJ was injuried,Toni missed games

after the trade,I think Brevin missed some.

" I guess sense during the same time, JT averaged the exact

same 19.7 ppg that his stats were also bloated?"

Jt was a freakin lottery pick.Toni was supposed to be icing on

the cake coming with Theo.There was ALOT more pressure on

JT than their was Toni.You miss my whole point.Toni produces

when he isn't counted on,but sure damn enough Toni was counted

on this year and so was Nazr and both had subpar seasons.

Obviousally JT's stats wasn't bloated.He still done the same this year

didn't he?How many PPG did Toni average this year?That's right,9PPG.

He had bloated stats coming off from warming the bench in Philly and

along with Nazr was well rested.

"Vancouver gave up 110 ppg.... That means that there was absolutely

no team defense. That's a coaching problem. Especially when both Bibby

and SAR goes to other teams and shine."

Shareef has yet to shine.We didn't make the playoffs did we?No we

still missed the playoffs.Any decent PG would look good in Sactown.

hell Brevin Knight would look good with that team.

You want to know why they gave up 110PPG?Look at Bibby and Shareefs

defense.Neither are that good on defense with their new teams either

are they?

Your excuses is JJ(who missed a decent amount of games due to

a shoulder or knee injury)and Toni Kukoc over a 18 game period in

WHICH WE WON LESS GAMES WITH HIM HERE.He had good stats,

but we won less games and he didn't make the impact cause we

didn't improve at all.You think maybe if they trade hadn't been

made we might have won 30 something games that year aswell.

These guys have never been impact players.Not to mention all the

trading/injuries/rookie head coach and all this we had going on and

still won more games than Bibby/Reef could.

We had some many changes that season due to injuries and trades.

Stop ignoring these facts.Not only did Toni/JJ make little impact on

the team but they both missed games.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/stats/stats_2000.html

Oh lookie here!Romac started 25 games!That is more than JJ played

for us that season.

Look at Toni...He played 17 games after only playing about 20MPG with

Philly and he came over rested and done well in a 17 game spand.Bloated

stats.

[Traceman]

JJ only started 14 games during the 00-01 season, how much of an impact could he have possibly had? Meanwhile, RoMac started 25 games. JT was playing with FAR less talent around him than Bibby had in Vancouver and yet he manged to help his team win more games.

[Guest]

Remember we lost like our first 9 or 10 games aswell.I thought

JJ had played more than 18 for us that season.I was alittle

surprised to see that 18 was all he had played.But I knew I

wasn't crazy when I was saying that at one point Romac was

our starting SF.

JJ and Toni are two guys that you can't count on...nor are they

consisant.I also saw that JJ was shooting 35% and that's just

bad.His impact in that time was WAY less than the season before

when he had one of his better seasons in the league.

JJ bitch and moaned and it seems he was lockerroom problem Portland

fans warned us about.Some(including myself)had doubt that JJ was

a lockerroom cancer...But it turned out to be true.

[Diesel]

We are not talking about Better player. We were talking about Better PG.

JT scores more... Yes.

But when you talk about who is able to pass, be a leader, be clutch, run the offense.... I have seen JT defer his duties as a PG too many times to believe that he is even on the same level as Bibby as a PG.

Like I said before. IF you would like to debate who is the better player, it is a lot better debate than to debate who is the better PG.

Also, Natural or unnatural, Bibby is still the better PG. (PERIOD).

[Guest Walter]

The fact that every player on Sac's team could hit the shot after the pass and the majority of the Hawks players couldn't much less couldn't without dribbling and taking away the assist first says alot especially for the 8 APG JT was getting at seasons end at Pg.

W