What does Bibby's contract mean for JT?

[DJ_Money]

Well, Bibby's signing for 7 years/$80 mil. certainly came out of nowhere. I guess all the "insiders" were wrong again, about Bibby taking a one-year deal.

Anyway, so where does this leave JT? I doubt JT is looking for Baron Davis-like money (6 yrs/$84 mil.), I think he would agree to something close to what Bibby got.

Again, that 7 year/$77 mil. deal resurfaces. Can someone explain the terms of that one to me again?

We know that JT does have the edge on Bibby, stat-wise.

JT: 19.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.85 spg

Bibby: 13.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.09 spg

Neither one is "the man" on their teams for the first three quarters. Webber has that role for Sacramento, SAR for us. But, in the 4th quarter, these two take over.

Neither are the "pure" PG that everyone seems to think is needed these days. Stockton, Kidd, and Miller are the only three left. Payton, Bibby, JT, Davis, Francis are all...untraditional, for lack of a better word.

Bibby led his team during their playoff run. JT is our leader, and won several game for us this season. But, he hasn't shown that in the playoffs yet.

If we sign JT to an extension this summer, we could likely get him for cheaper. We could wait a year, as I think we all know that JT wants to be in Atlanta, and we'd have to drive him away. I say, give him the money now, show JT and the people what he means to the fans and the city.

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One side note, I just realized that Theo, SAR, and Big Dog's deals all end in the same year. It's the same year that Hendu and CC's deals also end. One of those big three won't be back, my best guess would be Big Dog.

I'm really far behind on that, I know...

And...they're both Arizona Wildcats.

[Blunt91]

It will mean nothing unless Jason Terry can prove he can handle the pointguard postion EFFECTIVELY for the season. He will not get a contract extention this summer, they want JT to prove he can run this team. It is not about how much they like JT as a person or how much the fans like him,but can he become the pointguard they want him to be.

[Diesel]

What Stats don't show is how much a superior PG Bibby is than JT. Bibby has the luxury of being on a very good passing team. However, as a PG, he can run the offense much much better than JT. IN fact, If JT doesn't prove his PGing Skills, he will be lucky to get a starting offer more than 5 million. The bottom line is that JT is not so good of a Sg...

[Traceman]

He IS more of a traditional PG but how many wins did that translate to when he was on a team that needed him to assert himself? The Grizz were HORRIBLE with him at PG and he could do nothing to elevate them above that. Then he goes to a team with the best talent top to bottom in the NBA and he looks great. Is that him or the players around him? I think Bibby is a very good PG but I think SAC would have been every bit as successful with JT at PG as they were with Bibby at PG, maybe even MORE successful. SAC is filled with a team of great ballhandlers, JT's ballhandling and passing ability would be a non issue on that team. Bibby is good at taking his man off the dribble but not as good as JT and that is why he looked so great in the playoffs. JT would be an All Star if he played with the Kings and everyone would be calling him the next Isiah Thomas.

[Diesel]

Bibby is definitely the superior PG. IN fact, ask yourself this. If you had both JT and Bibby on your squad and you needed JUST ONE to be your starting PG, who would you pick?

Would you take JT because he's more likeable? Would you worry about how one player affects the win column? (Basketball is a team sport). Your argument about how many wins did Bibby produce is ludicrus. It's like me making an argument for Lazy Lo being Better than SAR because SAR didn't produce as many wins with the Griz as Lo did. Do you see the shear stupidity of that argument?

If I needed one PG and it was between Bibby and JT, I would make the same choice that Lute Olsen did at Arizona. Bibby.

[Traceman]

I think JT is simply the better player, period. I think JT would have more of an impact on a team than Bibby would if the situation is identical.

If JT plays on a team like the one he played on last year (and like the one Bibby played on in VAN) he will have more of an impact on the team's ability to win games than Bibby will in my opinion. JT's ability to breakdown the defender not only creates scoring opportunities for himself, it creates opportunities for his teammates as well. While both JT and Bibby need good players around them to be successful, I think Bibby needs more talent around him in order to be succesful than JT does.

If JT played for SAC, he would be every bit as successful as Bibby is on that team. Bibby scored 13.5 pts per game and dished out 5 assists per game in the regular season. You think JT wouldn't have done that in SAC? Jason Williams did that and then turned around and did the same thing that Bibby did in VAN. Just because Bibby had a great playoff run (and it was great) now all of a sudden he is supposed to be that much superior to JT? I don't see it. I saw JT light him up at home last year and I saw JT light him up when he was in VAN. JT will light him up again this year too.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bibby is a very good player but I don't think he is any better than JT. I don't think he's as good as Kidd, Payton, Francis, Davis, Miller or even Marbury. I think it was a smart move for SAC to resign Bibby because he is a key component of that team but I don't know if he's worth $80 million. There are a number of PGs out there who I think could have done what he did in SAC if given the same supporting cast. Bibby's play in the playoffs earned him AT LEAST $30 million and probably more. I hope he doesn't become an Austin Croshere and not live up to his deal but I don't think its out of the question.

[Guest]

If they played one on one JT would probably embarass

Mike Bibby(he did in the reg season already)and while

Bibby might be a better PG,JT is the better basketball

player.Bibby has played well in the playoffs,but JT has

destroyed basically ever top PG the league has to offer.

25PPG again Payton,43 againest Andre Miller,46 againest

Steve Nash,he abused Baron Davis this year aswell.The

only PG that really slowed JT down was Jason Kidd...but

he is the best PG in the league so that is not so shocking.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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If JT plays on a team like the one he played on last year (and like the one Bibby played on in VAN) he will have more of an impact on the team's ability to win games than Bibby will in my opinion. JT's ability to breakdown the defender not only creates scoring opportunities for himself, it creates opportunities for his teammates as well.

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Everything you describe about JT describes him as being a good SHOOTING GAURD, however, we're talking about a PG and PG only situation.

Even still. What does JT have even as a SG that Bibby doesn't possess??

Clutch Shooting? Did you watch the playoffs?

Ability to Break down his Man? Ask Kobe about Bibby doing that.

Ability to "take over a game"? When Peja was out and CWebb was disappearing who carried the load? Who put the team on his shoulders?

The bottom line is that JT does NOTHING better than Bibby as a 2 and as a PG (Offensive Leader) Bibby is far superior.

IN his three yrs at Vancouver... His averages were:

15.9 ppg, 8.4 apg

14.5 ppg, 8.1 apg

13.2 ppg, 6.5 apg -Freshman

Last yr Terry gets his assist up from 4.9 apg to 5.7 apg and you want to try to convince anyone that he's a better PG than Bibby?? Please. For Bibby to get 5.7 apg would be a pity and a shame.

Then there's the question of Leader. On the offense, Bibby can actually run it. Can JT?

[chillzatl]

I'm not one that thinks just because he plays here he's god. But the nonsense you've dredged up over the last month is just plain sickening.

And for the record, Bibby didn't even put up 5.7apg with Sac last year. A pity and a shame was it?

You want to compare JT to Bibby, let me play. You talk about Bibby's abilities as an SG compared to JT. You mention clutch shooting, breaking down his man and taking over the game. Well, for the first time in his ENTIRE CAREER, Bibby actually did that. FOR THE FIRST TIME!!! Up until that one damned series Bibby was a CAREER LOSER. Now he's got people like you who are ready to jump on the Bibby-bandwagon and take the full ride. I'm not dissing Bibby. He's a very good player and deserving of it. But instead of pointing out what everyone else, IN YOUR MIND, does better than JT. Why not try this:

Why not give JT the same benefit of the doubt you are already giving BIbby? HUH? Bibby had one really good series where he showed that HE CAN BE more than just the decent player on a crappy team that he's been his entire year. Well, why is that any different for JT? He showed over the course of half a season that he could go from average to well above average. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt that he can continue to do the same, or even better? Huh? tell me that.

You are supposed to be a Hawks fan? You seem more like someone who'd stab a buddy in the back just so you could make a point. Not that you have to hometown for the Hawks. But you could at least give JT and other Hawks the same benefit of the doubt that you so readily dish out to every other player that you fall in love with.

[Admin]

In reply to:

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Last yr Terry gets his assist up from 4.9 apg to 5.7 apg and you want to try to convince anyone that he's a better PG than Bibby?? Please. For Bibby to get 5.7 apg would be a pity and a shame.

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How many assists did Bibby average last year with the mighty Kings? 5.0

So then I guess Bibby is a pity and a shame. Fact is that a guy who was a SG for half of the season and a PG for half put up better numbers on a team with less players to pass to. JT scored more, dished out more assists, played better defense and yet you still want to say that

In reply to:

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The bottom line is that JT does NOTHING better than Bibby as a 2 and as a PG (Offensive Leader) Bibby is far superior.

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I think that you should rethink that statement because it makes absolutely no sense.

[Teeareess]

As a point guard, guard, player, leader, team ambassador, or whatever, I'd take Terry over Bibby.

Terry averaged 5.7 playing half the season at 2 guard But was around 7 when you only count his games at point guard. Bibby averaged, according to you, a pitiful & shameful 5 assists a game.

I like Bibby, but I think he's a little over-rated right now. You act like he's some great playmaker, he decent, but remember, the Kings offense goes through Webber, Divac, and Christie, and does not require him to create a lot. JT, even at shooting guard, was responsible for more of the Hawks offense than Bibby was for the Kings.

He played great in the clutch, but I don't think he's as explosive as Terry can be.

[Traceman]

[tmac]

We all like JT..But the only thing he does better than Bibby is score..Bibby is a natural point guard, JT is a natural scorer..As far as ballhandling, passing, making good decisions, and playing defense, JT is not as good a Bibby..Also, SAC is probably the best passing team in basketball..Most of the time they have 4 or 5 players on the court who are all very capable passers..So saying Bibby's assists went down last year is a silly argument, any guards assists would go down there.

[JTFan31]

Same old Diesel, busting on JT. Diesel I hope you ain't one of those coming back and start saying that JT is the man because according to you every starting PG in this league can run the team better than JT. Admittingly JT did have a hard time transforming from the college game to the pro game, it is a game change, but you know what.......the kid has heart and I'll take that over anything else in this league, but not only heart.......JT has mad game, he can take over a game anyday, any night.....he is that good. But JT wont be needed to do that anymore, now he can concentrate in being a pure PG, and I guarantee this JT will be considered one of the league's best PG's before this season is over. He will carry the team on his shoulders and take them to the promise land, because I have no doubt in MY MIND THAT WE CAN BE THE EAST CHAMPS.

I still remember this statement by JT like if it was yesterday. Most of you would too. In the 2000 season, his 2nd year in the league, the Hawks had a nationalized TV game on TNT vs the Kings, he absolutely lit them up for 38 points. After the game he was interviewed by Craig Sager and Sager particularly ask him this question "JT, are you a PG or a SG" JT's response "I'm a basketball player".

When JT made that statement that showed me right there on that spot what kind of guy he is. And if I were to take a championship team to the finals with the decision of taking JT or Bibby, I'll take JT hands down. ANYTIME.

So please Diesel stop busting JT's a**, because he has done absolutely everything right for our Hawks, and dont come back in this messageboard praising JT when he finally starts at point and looks like a true allstar.

[Traceman]

Everything in my previous post was referring to JT the PG, not JT the SG, but since you want to make it an issue, I thought I'd clarify that point.

Obviously, you think that Bibby is not only a better PG, you think he's a better PLAYER than JT based on this statement:

"The bottom line is that JT does NOTHING better than Bibby as a 2 and as a PG (Offensive Leader) Bibby is far superior."

I STRONGLY disagree with that position. I think JT is the better player REGARDLESS of where they line up. JT's explosiveness and his ability to take over a game is what separates the two in my opinion.

In addition, you said:

"IN his three yrs at Vancouver... His averages were:

15.9 ppg, 8.4 apg

14.5 ppg, 8.1 apg

13.2 ppg, 6.5 apg -Freshman"

Well here's the rest of that story.

98-99 13.2 ppg, 6.5 apg Record - 8-42

99-00 15.9 ppg, 8.4 apg Record - 22-60

00-01 14.5 ppg, 8.1 apg Record - 23-59

Vancouver was 53-161 with Bibby as its starting PG. He was considered to be a good PG but certainly not great. Then he goes to a young up and coming team that won 55 games the year before he got there and they win 61 and now he is supposed to be great? I don't think so. I think SAC would have probably won 60 games (or damn close to it) WITHOUT Bibby (and with Jason Williams).

Look at Jason Williams' Memphis stats:

01-02 14.8 ppg, 8.0 apg Record - 23-59

Do those numbers look familiar? Williams was able to duplicate Bibby's stats as a Grizzlie and he led the team to as many wins in his first season as Bibby did in 3 seasons.

You said:

"For Bibby to get 5.7 apg would be a pity and a shame."

Well guess what, on a good team, Bibby was only able to put up 5.0 apg, which is LESS than JT's 5.7 apg! Uh-oh! In addition, JT scored over 19 ppg while Bibby scored less than 14 ppg. Double uh-oh!

All this is funny because I like Bibby. I think he is a very good PG, but I don't think he is a better PG (or player) than JT. We'll see what happens head to head. Watch JT eat him up!

[Teeareess]

The only "silly argument", was when the Bibby fan said it would be "a pity and a shame", for Bibby to have 5.7 apg. How the hell can we not bring up this last season's lower numbers. I think Bibby is a good point guard, but I think JT's explosivness, and scoring ability, make him a better player. Head to head, I'd take JT all day every day.

[Traceman]

Bibby is a better ballhandler, passer and decision maker than Steve Francis or Baron Davis too but he is not as good of a PG as either of them. Bibby is a good player who can HELP a good team win but he doesn't have the ability to be THE MAN on a good team. Davis and Francis can be THE MAN on a good team. Look at Houston's record with Francis and without him. THAT clearly shows just how good he is.

As far as defense goes, PLEASE! Bibby is NOT a good defender. He is actually a below average defender. People complain about JT's D but he is definitely a better defender than Bibby and not just because of the steals.

As far as Bibby's assists going down, that may be the case, but when he was dishing out 8 apg, his team sucked. Jason Williams put up numbers in Memphis this year (14.8 ppg, 8.0 apg) that were every bit as good as Bibby's were when he was in Vancouver. Did Williams improve last year or did he simply go to a bad team and put up big stats?

I think Bibby is a solid PG, I just don't think he is the impact player that JT is at the PG position. Bibby is good because he is steady, but like Francis and Davis, JT is good because he is explosive.

[Guest]

Bibby has never made ALL the top PG's look bad in the manner

that JT has.JT has made ever PG as well as Kobe Bryant look

very badly also.Do not forget that game JT droped 38 points

on Kobe and Kobe looked so defenseless and helpless.That's

right!JT was scoring on Kobe to the point to were he looked

helpless.I remember that game and NEVER will forget it.

You all the time talk about Reef's one 50 point game.What

about how JT approached 50 on atleast three occassions?

Did you see what he did to Andre Miller?Took him to the

hole and done this killer spin move and droped a layup

and a foul right over Millers head.

I hear alot of trades from fans and most of them want JT...

Why is that?We have Theo/Big Dog/Shareef but why do

fans want JT?I even saw a freakin Miami Heat fan talking

about how JT is the most underrated player in the game

today.

To be honest,alot of fans around the league HATE the Hawks.

The only time they seem to say something about JT they

use it is a crutch to lean on for a excuse as to why we will

not make the playoffs.Hell most of the people I talk to that

do like us realize JT can play PG.Does that mean he is a PURE

PG??No it doesn't.....But he can play the position and do it

effectively and that is exactually what he did.

If JT can't play PG Shareef can't play PF because atleast JT

can hold his oppenent down.Shareef sure as hell can't stop

PF's from scoring on him.JT's defense got better at PG because

he didn't have to try and cover and help everyones a** including

Shareefs because they can't play any defense.If Newble was

anyones savior he was JT's.

JT talks about Newbles contributation to the team..translation=He

helps me cover other peoples a** and can actually play good defense

besides me.I remember watching games and the one were Baron

only shot 3-15 and a couple of games like this and I orginally thought"

These guys are having off games because JT can't be playing

good defense"but if you go look at the box scores there sure was

alot of off nights by opposing PG's.

It's funny that people still wallow in pity over Nique being traded

10 freakin years ago(when he was on the decline)and have no

problems hiding Shareef's faults(No defense and little atheletic

ability) but sit and try and find faults for JT all the time.

JT all the time

[Guest]

Why do you think Jt is so quick to talk about how much

better THeo makes the defense???Hello?Get me some

help on defense!Please get somebody on the freakin

frontline that can play defense.

[Diesel]

I'm not Anti JT.

However, the question came up who's the better PG, JT or Bibby? What is sickening is the hometowning going on. Bibby was a Better PG at UA, he's a Better PG now. Who's the better player is a more debateable issue than PG. If the question is about PG, JT is outclassed.