Commentary/Explanations on Miami game

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I was in Nashville last night for the Hawks vs Heat game. When you see some of the young guys live, you can see why some people get playing time, and why some people don't.

The collapse at the end was a result of Jason Williams and Antoine Walker ( both who had been relatively cold the entire game ) getting hot at the end . . Tyronn Lue being a horrific ball handling/decision making PG ( he had costly TOs in that quarter ) . . and people not securing the rebound and putting a body on somebody on that final rebound/shot by Payton.

I think Donta was the one that had a chance to secure the rebond with about 7 seconds left. Instead, he tries to knock the ball into the backcourt ( ala what the Spurs tried to do to the Lakers, when the ball got knocked back to Horry, and he hits the game winning 3 pointer. The play was almost exactly like that ). When the ball got knocked back to Walker, he missed the 3, but Payton was there to pick up the long rebound and bank in the game winner. Hawks players were stunned that they lost. That's kind of a good thing, seeing that it is preseason. At least they cared whether they won or lost.

PLAYER OBSERVATIONS

- Salim Stoudamire: It's clearly obvious to me that as of right now, this guy is incapable of running the point for the Hawks on a full time basis. The guy does have talent. But two things KILL him when he's at the point.

1) His height. Bascially what happened last night, was that when he was in the game, Gary Payton was matched up against him. GP is 6- 4 and is still a decent ( not great ) but decent defensive player. Salim had virtually no chance in getting his shot off over GP. Expect him to struggle against the bigger PGs in the league.

2) His incapability to manage the double-team. Actually, Lue has this problem as well. But Salim didn't seem to manage the double team well last night at all. He either held the ball too long and made a tough pass to someone else, turned it over on a bad pass, or lost the ball trying to split the double team. This is the luxury that JJ at the point gives us. He can at least see over top of a double team, giving him a better chance to find the open man.

Salim did do some good things at the point though. He basically ran the team when the Hawks surged ahead of the Heat in the 2nd half of the 3rd quarter. And his defensive rebounding last night was incredible, mainly because the vast majority of them came within 5 feet of the goal, and not the typical long rebounds that guards usually track down. Kind of reminded me of Fred Hoiberg.

But expect Salim to see heavy minutes this year ( heavy, as in 25 - 30 minutes ) only when he hits a few shots in a row. The Hawks MUST utilize this guy in a scorer's role, not a playmaking role.

- ZaZa: I tell you guys what. I think we got a steal in ZaZa. This kid obviously understands the game of basketball. Don't let his shooting percentage last night fool you. He was matched up against Zo when he was missing shots. Zo is still an elite defender at the center position. But the guy did it all last night. He hit the boards. He showed some nice post moves to get baskets. He even ran a 3 on 1 fast break with Childress and Josh Smith, in which he grabbed a long rebound, took it to about the 3 point line, dished it off to Smith, who wowed the crowd with a nice one-hand dunk.

If ZaZa develops a "go-to" post move, or perfects the 12 foot jumper, then we may have a solid player for the next 4 years at C/F. I like this kid.

- Esteban Batista: LOL . . I thought Toine was going to get a tech in that game, due to Batista bodying him up. The thing I like about Batista, is that he knows that he's going to play limited minutes. Unlike Josh Smith, who puts it on cruise control in stretches in games, Batista is going to put the pedal to the metal, and go all out out for the 10 - 15 minutes he'll get to play. He'll come up big in a game this year, watch.

- John Edwards: LOL . . please cut him right now. He's the complete opposite of Batista and ZaZa. Both of those guys play hard when they're out on the court, and they aren't soft. Edwards is soft as Kleenex. Don't expect this guy to play too much this year, if at all. In fact, where is Ekezie? Might as well bring him back.

- Donta Smith: Donta was "the man" for the 2nd teamers last night. Most all of his shots came from 15 feet and in, but he scored in a variety of ways. The soft jumper was falling and he was getting to the basket. Even though Matt Walsh was guarding him throughout most of the 2nd quarter, in which he scored I know 8 - 10 points, he did a great job while in the game.

- Josh Smith: 75% of the time, he was horrible. I think it's because he's just a lazy player right now. He missed some easy wide open 15 - 18 foot jumpers. He forced a lot of things going to the hole, even being completely out of control at times. And he tossed some horrible passes that could've led to easy lay-ups. If Smoove doesn't watch himself, he could find himself splitting equal time with Marvin, or being sat on the bench on those nights in which he just isn't into the flow of the game. Unlike last year, we have multiple guys who can step into his spot, and keep him on the bench, if need be.

I hope he realizes that he can't be the Slam Dunk Champion forever. When that 18 foot jumper of his isn't falling, he better switch gears, and turn into a "poor man's" Shawn Marion, and see if he can pick up some points off offensive rebounds and easy put backs.

- Josh Childress: Solid game overall, although he had NO CHANCE in guarding Dwayne Wade last night. One thing I did see Coach Mike do with Chill, is try to make him the primary option in the offense in certain groups. In one grouping, here's who was on the floor:

PG - Lue

G - Salim

F - Chill

F - Batista

C - Edwards

Now granted, this group will probably NEVER see the floor together in a regular season game. But it was interesting to see them try to run offense with this group. Needless to say, they weren't very successful.

- Royal Ivey: If Delk is healthy, he may never see the floor again. His PG play was so bad at times, that Woodson had to pull him and put Lue back in the game. He's Salim, with far less offensive ability.

- Tyronn Lue: Although he had a lackluster performance last night, I'll still say that when he's placed alongside JJ, he'll be decent most of the year. Lue is a lot like Salim in the fact that while both of them have trouble running a team, they could also be vital assets for this team, because of their shot making ability. Lue was pretty good at the end of the 2005 season, as a scoring PG. He'll probably have to be in that role again, and let JJ make most of the playmaking decisions.

- Al: He was EASILY the 2nd best player on the floor last night, outside of Dwayne Wade ( and possibly Donta ). The guy finished just about every shot he had around the basket ( easy and very difficult ). Al played like he was "the man" last night, which is always good for the Hawks. Haslem had no answer for him in the 1st half. And when he was matched up against Walker, he even showed him a thing or two. LOL @ Walker . . I can't believe he was instrumental in that game last night, after going I know 3 - 11 in the game for a time there.

- Damn . . I was hoping that JJ would play so that I can see how he interacted with the other guys on the court. But I got a feeling that he would be a no-show, seeing that he wasn't with the rest of the Hawks at Shaq's party at the club on Sunday Night. Seeing Marvin for the first time live would've been nice too. Oh well. I'll have to wait 3 weeks when I'll be in ATL for the Memphis game.

[yardbird]

Thank for the insight.

[hotboyj]

I just saw it and it kind of hit me, damn, we may have a star on our hands.

If this carries over to the season, along with JJ being able to play, we may not make playoffs, but we could have at least one representative at the all-star game.

[mrhonline]

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I just saw it and it kind of hit me, damn, we may have a star on our hands.

If this carries over to the season, along with JJ being able to play, we may not make playoffs, but we could have at least one representative at the all-star game.

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He's also 6th in minutes. And doubt forget that two of the five in front of him for minutes played are Hawks.

[Diesel]

The MrH ONLINE Campaigne against Al Harrington continues!

[mrhonline]

I have never felt a need to "spin" anything on this board because my sense of self-worth isn't determined by anonymous arguments on basketball message boards. But answer me two questions:

1. Do you disagree that he's 4th in scoring?

2. Do you disagree that only three non-Hawks have averaged more minutes/game?

Of course you don't.

It's why I'm being cautiously optimistic about JJ, Childress, and Harrington. They're playing a lot more minutes vs. bench warmers than they will in the regular season.

It's called the "John Salmons" rule.

[Peoriabird]

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1. Do you disagree that he's 4th in scoring?

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No one give a rat's azz about the above. What people here are excited about is the quality of his play. Shooting a high percentage from the outside as well as having an array of inside moves that he uses very efficiently

[snarley]

northcyde---muchas gracias for the nice and thorough insight on the hawks/miami game!! i would love to have been there myself. and how was it that you were at shaq's party? you need to hook a brother up (me)!

im still hopeful on salim and j smith. i think that people characterize his off court quietness and his calm demeanor (even after doin' highlight dunks) as a reflection of work ethic and style. i would have to disagree to a large extent. the cat put on 20 lbs this summer. his j has improved from 15-18. he has been in and out of practice and games due to his sprained ankle. the game i saw him this preseason at phillips showed me a guy who is much more confident in his j.

i really, really think that we are still going to surprise many people. we have not had any time this preseason when everyone was healthy and playing. we are going through a time of a loss of one of our players...a player that was going to be a part of the 2nd unit mind you. if we get a nene or magloire or somebody with some sense of presence in the middle...i think it will open things up a whole heck of a lot. and once jj gets comfortable in his role and he figures out where everyone's sweet spots are...then we are going to be rollin. i am real big on Zaza..i agree that i think this cat is fo' real. and viva el toro!! this latino is our version of eduardo najera!

go hawks.

[mudderfudder77]

Quote:

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2. Do you disagree that only three non-Hawks have averaged more minutes/game?

Of course you don't.

It's why I'm being cautiously optimistic about JJ, Childress, and Harrington. They're playing a lot more minutes vs. bench warmers than they will in the regular season.

It's called the "John Salmons" rule.

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I've mentioned this a couple of times myself. Al has looked very good, but lets remember most teams are only playing their starter 20-25 minutes while the Hawks appear to be averaging 30 minutes plus.

[Gray Mule]

Can't wait until the season starts and we get a chance

to watch our Birds fly this season !!

GO HAWKS !!!!

[Weez]

glad to see that I wasn't the only one at the game...and that my thoughts were much the same as yours.

Posted much about this in another thread...and the only big piont of argument is about Zaza, who scared me at times last night with his inability to handle a pass. Otherwise, he boxes out well, is fundamentallly solid.

ditto on your salim comments. he's going to have to work on things to earn more PT.

the only time Josh really showed up in the first quarter last night was when he was trying to dunk on Zo.

the third he had a couple of nice bocks...but still, much to be desired.

[Diesel]

It's definitely spin whether you believe it or not...

I mean, why take the time to write something "cautiously optimistic" about Al?

When people write good things about Zaza and Batista, I noticed that your cautious optimism is nowhere to be found. It seems like you have an agenda that is only against Al ... It's almost like you don't want to see Al do well? The person who brought up that Al was 4th in the league in scoring really didn't bring it up as to say that it mattered.. Most of us were gased because Al was the second best player on the floor behind Wade... However, I am noticing that you tend to post only in opposition to positive posts about Al? Why is that?

[Nicholasp27]

kinda like u and marvin?

[mudderfudder77]

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kinda like u and marvin?

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LOL Zing!

[mrhonline]

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Most of us were gased because Al was the second best player on the floor behind Wade...

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Perhaps that's because he was the second best player on the court? I'm not exactly a huge Antoine or JWill fan.

However, had JJ and Shaq played, Al would have been the fourth best player on the court. And that's exactly my point - he's not playing against team's regular season units.

Quote:

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However, have you ever noticed that I tend to post only in opposition to positive posts about

Marvin

? Why is that?

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Fixed it for you.

I've already answered your question, but I'll repeat it again:

Al already had a year to start and got plenty of opportunities to show what kind of player he is. The result? He was unspectacular and inconsistent at the PF position.

Now, if he continues to shoot well from the outside, he has value as a SF because his post moves are more effective there. Unfortunately, the Hawks don't need him to excel at SF because they have five other players that could play there. I think the Hawks will let Al be the first option, and then trade him in February unless he consistently puts up All-Star numbers.

Al has talent, but I have good reason to doubt that he's ever going to be the All-Star you think he is.

[Diesel]

I make no bones about it..

I hate the Marvin pick... and so far, Marvin has done NOTHING to change my mind...

However, at least I have the ballz to come out and say it.

But You.. You mount a campaigne against Al and you don't even have the balls to say that you don't like him... You are one of these weak livered lukewarm fairweather fans huh??

[Diesel]

Not at all like me and Marvin.

If Marvin ever does anything good as a pro, I will be there to pat him on the back. I certainly won't go around trying to discredit him... However H takes whatever good things Al has done and tries to spin it as if it's nothing.

That's a totally different MO.

[mrhonline]

Did you just argue with yourself? I'm not sure which post to disagree with...

Like I said, I'm going to LID until a couple of months of real games have been played. Besides, I'd love for Al to up his trade value by scoring a bunch - as long as he doesn't cost the young Hawks some valuable eary-season wins.

[Weez]

the most likely thing to 'cost' us a few early season wins will be makingpt for Marvin and Salim (that they haven't earned/ over Delk and others). Not 'helping Al' boost his stats...

[mrhonline]

...or Al trying to do too much on offense...