Diesel's Top 5 Most overrated Teams.

[Diesel]

Teams that have been rated very highly and will have a rude awakening this yr:

1. The Detroit Pistons. Sure they got younger and better chemistry. Yes they have a really good coach. BUT... The East is back healthy again. No more winning by default.

2. Minnesota. I like Minnesota but in essence they are a one man team. The Loss of Billups will affect them. Bottom dweller teams might start to surpass them... See my top 5 sleeper list.

3. San Antonio. My the yrs have not been kind. Duncan is already packing his bags and selling the house. Robinson and Smitty have gotten old. Bowen is a top paid player. If San Antonio were smart, they'd go ahead and trade Duncan now while they were in control of the negotiations and try to get a slew of young players for him so that they can start the rebuilding process. Here's my example. Duncan to Golden State for Jaimeson, Murphy, and 2 1st rounders. I mean Why not. Duncan to Seattle for Lewis, Barry, 2 1st rounders. Duncan, Smith to Toronto for Vince, JYD, Pete.

4. Toronto. NO C. AD will play C and maybe JYD will get off the bench FINALLY. However, their depth is gone to the crapper. I like Jeffries but Hunter is no Childs. If they were smart, they'd try to trade away AD's contract and get back some size and depth. Send AD to Indy... AD to Indy for Croshere/Miller.

5. Lakers. They've gotten old in a hurry. The Lakers have done nothing about their aging team. Sure they are the champions this yr by one winning play and a good quarter of basketball. However, everybody around them is getting better. NOT Just Sactown... But LAC got better. Dallas got better. Houston got better. shoot, even GS got better. Those easy wins won't be easy anymore. And the one thing everybody should realize is that the refs cannot allow the big shoulder to happen as frequently as it has been. The magic of the West yrs are coming to an end.

[Boondocks]

I don't agree regarding San Antonio. First off, TD has not sold his house, furthermore he's opning a new restaurant in San Antonio.

Upcoming season when he'll become a FA the spurs will only have Tony Parker, Emanuel Ginobili, Bruce Bowen and his best friend Malik Rose under contract.

Basically he can shape the Spurs to his liking, there's no way he'll move out of SA (sorry Magic fans).

I think the SAS might do OK this year and be a formidable team next year with say Kandi perhaps as the new center..

[Traceman]

I don't see it. Unless Shaq is injured for a LONG time, they will be a top 3 seed in the WC. Then, once thet get in the playoffs, they still are the team to beat. SAC should be better than they were last year and they definitely could have won last year but the Lakers are bringing all their key guys back plus they acquired Kareem Rush, who I think is going to be a pretty good player. All dynasties eventually fall and after the 3 peat, LA could get beat but they are still one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the NBA.

I also disagree on San Antonio. Boondocks is right, SA is in a VERY good position for the next few seasons. Look for them to land a big time FA next year (Kidd?) to go along with TD.

The number one team I see as overrated is the Knicks. I see several predictions that have them making the playoffs and I don't see it. I also see a lot of predictions that have the Bucks being a great team I'm not convinced. I think they will miss Big Dog's steady 20+ a lot more than they think and Kukoc does nothing to improve their D. I think Indy is talented but I don't think Isiah can coach and therefore, I look for them to disappoint. I think Detroit has very mediocre talent but they have a lot of heart on that team so they may sneak in the playoffs again. All that being said, any of those teams could surprise me. The East is going to be extremely competitive and the 8 teams that stay the healthiest may end up making the playoffs.

[chillzatl]

I have to agree with trace. The Lakers, overrated?? That's some biased a** writing there. That's like saying the Yankees are overrated. They are 3 time defending champions!?! And realistically they aren't old. They've got Kobe, George, Medvedenko and now rush. Plus they've still got plenty of vets with years left in their tanks. The Kings are the only team that have a legitimate shot at this point in the season. They have NOTHING to worry about from houston, LAC, GS or just about anyone else.

[Guest]

If Dallas could get stops WHEN NEEDED they

would be a legit challenger for the crown.But

they are strictly a offensive team while the

Kings have the ability to get stops when needed

the most.

Every team in the west has improved.But the Lakers

are the champions and they are until they are beaten

and the team that will beat needs tons of heart and

the talent.I don't see any team this year that will

accomplish the feat.Either the teams don't have the

heart or they don't have the talent.

I think the Raptors are highly overrated aswell.I

wonder were Bison Blue is these days?

[Diesel]

What moves have the Lakers made to get better?

None.

In fact, they lose Hunter and Richmond and Horry and Fox get another yr older. Where is the up and coming talent? It's the same team. Not neccessarily a dynasty because they had to rely on sheer luck to beat Sac-Town...

Now let's think about it. Sac-Town almost beat the Lakers and Sac-Town was without Peja. Peja was their second option all yr long. What happens when Peja comes back? Lakers probably lose 4-1.

But not only that, what happens when Peja comes back and he has Keon Clark and Jumaine Jones. They still have Gerald on the bench getting better.

What do the Lakers have again? Older Horry, Older Fox, ???

But the overrated part is that the Lakers (living off of their championship rings) are considered the team to beat? Certainly they haven't improved. and Last yr Sac-Town was better. Well, now, other teams are stepping up too.

Dallas. Lafrentz will make them better over a season.

LAC. with the addition of Andre Miller, they now have a pure PG to pass to all that other talent. Odom's coming back!

We Will see.

[Guest]

D - while I somewhat agree with your sentiments, I think you're being a little overly-critical. The Peja argument is one that rings true; I'm not sure about 4-1, but I believe that the Kings would have won.

However, playing a little Devil's advocate, Shaq was far from 100% and there was that whole Kobe food poisoning thing...though the loss of Peja was much more crucial.

Errors - The Lakers did add Rush, who should become a decent player (and will be brought along quite slowly, given Phil's record with rooks) and get some pt this year. You have to give them that. Additionally, Jumain Jones isn't on the Kings - the trade was nullified due to Cleaves not passing his physical in Cleveland.

BUT - you get Kobe on a night when he's truly on, or Shaq when's he's 90% on, and whoever you are you're going to have a tough time beating them. You get Shaq and Kobe both shooting over 50% for the night, adn well, all bets are off, regardless of who's playing them.

They've earned the right, through luck, collapses by other teams, whatnot, to be called "the team to beat" and the measuring stick by which all others must be measured.

[Diesel]

Let me say this...

I thought about Rush. I like Rush too. However, Phil has Never been inclined to play any rookie much. Look over his track record. IN Chicago, the only rookie that ever saw significant PT was BJ armstrong... and that wasn't much. Phil is even harder on SGs being that his version of the triangle keys in on the scoring ability of the SG. I like Rush but I don't think he will play much. Tracy Murry on the other hand will play. He will split time with fox being the 3 pt threat. There again though... These guys are OLD.

As far as Shaq and Kobe feeling ill. From what I remember, Kobe complained about 1 game out of 7. Shaq for 1 game. However, Peja missed the whole Series minus game 7. Honestly Peja being healthy for the series, Sac-town would have made quick work of the Lakers.

My feelings on the matter is that a team that wins by default really can't claim to be the best.

Sac-Town had the better season.

Sac-Town had better players.

Unfortunately for Sac-Town, their health didn't hold up.

does that mean that because the Lakers went on to win the title that they are the Best team in the game?

No.

And what I am saying is that the media has made the lakers champions already and they haven't gotten better with everybody else.

People here talk as if Clark has to stop Shaq in order for Sac-Town to win. Clark is just more reinforcements. So is Jones.

Finally, you talk about catching Shaq and Kobe when their on... and that's a fair saying. But catch this:

http://www.nba.com/games/20011207/LALSAC/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20020324/LALSAC/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20020417/SACLAL/boxscore.html

Seems to me like the only time the Lakers can get Shaq and Kobe going is when Peja or Webber is out... And that is BARELY. A healthy Sac-town beats ANY combination of Shaq and Kobe that the Lakers can bring.

[Guest]

Yes the Lakers are the best team.They won

the title.Sactown isn't going to win anything

because they are cowards.Peja?Yeah he and

his airball.

Lakers will repeat because they have two out

of the three best players in basketball.

How can Jones be a reinforcement when he isn't

on the team?

[Guest]

They don't have Jones!

Your point about Keon's on though, he's not there to stop Shaq, just try to compete and throw another angle/ type of player at him. It was a good acquisition.

Peja technically played in games 5, 6, and 7. He wasn't healthy, but he played at 18, 20, and 25 minutes respectively.

[Guest]

Peja is just one more guy for Kobe to reak

havoc on and he would break Pejas ankles

with a killer crossover=)

[Diesel]

OK,

The trade didn't go through. I just found out that Cleaves failed the physical...

Anyway though. They still got a very deep and talented bench. The Lakers on the other hand did not improved.

You say that the Lakers will repeat because they have 2 of the best players in the game. LA DE DA.... They had the same two last yr and they were outplayed By Healthy Sactown. How is it that Sactown loses it's second best player in 4 out of 7 games and he really wasn't healthy those last 3 games and it took the Lakers 7 games and an overtime to beat them?? Healthy Sactown has just gotten better and the Lakers have gotten older. Sactown's youth is now maturing and the Lakers are picking up old guys like Tracy Murry.

The reason I say that the Lakers are overrated is because of guys like you who believe that the Lakers will repeat without looking at the facts. The facts are that everyone around them is getting BETTER.

[chillzatl]

oh c'mon man, get a hold on yourself. We all know that you didn't watch the Hawks in he 2nd half last year. Did you not watch the NBA at all? Lindsey Hunter and Mitch Richmond were never integral parts of that team. Hunter barely played once fisher came back and Richmond barely played period.

Don't make yourself look like a fool by saying the 3 time champs are overrated. I don't like them either. But i'm not going to make myself look like some blind idiot by saying they are overrated.

The Kings should very well be the better team this year. But that doesn't mean the Lakers are then anything but the #2 team in the league at that point. I mean you are really going out on a limb saying that the Clippers, Rockets and Mavs somehow make the Lakers OVERRATED? AHHAHAHA. If the Kings are the better team, how is the #2 team in the league overrated??? TELL ME PLEASE???

What diesel is showing here is the exact opposite of hometowning. When he dislikes a player/team he will spin things from every possible angle to "prove" his point. He really wants you people to accept that because the CLIPPERS/ROCKETS/MAVS/ETC got slightly better this year that they are some how better than the #2 (at worst) team in the league?!?!?! Lets all sit down and have a nice laugh at diesels expense. Thanks D, I needed that!

[chillzatl]

Stick to the point that you started man. Just because the clippers or Mavs got better doesn't mean they are ready to be the #1 or #2 team in the league, which the lakers are. Hell, we got better, are we suddenly better than the lakers???

The issue is not IF THE KINGS ARE BETTER. Hell, they SHOULD Be better. They were the better team last year. BUt the better team doesn't always win. Even if they Kings are the better team, that only makes the Lakers the SECOND BEST TEAM.

you really spread the sh1t thick when you don't like a team/player.

[nbafan]

It's absolutely ridiculous to call the 3 time defending NBA champions overrated. You may be unhappy that a team you thought was deeper and more talented could not beat the Lakers, but that is a reflection on your judgement, not the Lakers. To be overrated you have to underachieve on expectations; the Lakers did not.

It's a valid argument that Sacremento played the series without a healthy Peja (although Fox completely shut him down the year before). But you can't discount that Shaq played with an injury that made him less than 70% on offense (he could not even dunk the basketball jumping off his injured foot; look at his attempted putback on the shot before Horry's game winning 3. Healthy Shaq explodes through Vlade to dunk that) and much less than that on defense. Also to say that Kobe was only affected in one game is flat out wrong. He took IV fluids in the first 3 games of the series and didn't have his usual on the ball defensive quickness until game 4.

You could also make the argument that Mike Bibby had the series of his life, in part because of no Peja.

As for the argument that the Lakers are older and the Kings are better: The Kings may be better: If Bibby continues to play anywhere close to playoff form, Webber stays out of jail, and Vlade has another year left. The Lakers will be better if the playoffs start with a healthy Shaq and Kobe. As for the rest of the team, they have young talent in George, Medvedenko, and Rush that needs to develop. If that happens they will be dramatically better.

The critical thing to understand is that you can only play 5 guys at a time and the NBA is about matchups. The Lakers win because they have two guys who can get a good shot anytime they want it and they are one of the best fourth quarter defensive teams in the history of the league. Adding Keon Clark certainly doesn't change either one of those things.

[Diesel]

Do you think that the Lakers will Win it all this yr?

Do you think that they are head and shoulders better than everyone else in the league?

The Lakers won it all last yr and good for them... But its true that they were not the most talented team playing. However, from the media accounts, you wouldn't know that. That's why I say that they are OVERRATED. OVerrated doesn't mean that they are not good. It means that people think that they are better than they really are.

For INstance, People started asking the question if these Lakers are better than Jordan's Bulls? That's overratedness at it's finest. Jordan's Bulls would have made quick work of the Lakers. They don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath. If Winning the Championship is all that matters and is proof of a dominant team, then I guess Russell's Celtics were the best team Ever to lace em up!

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

oh c'mon man, get a hold on yourself. We all know that you didn't watch the Hawks in he 2nd half last year. Did you not watch the NBA at all?

---

Before you continue Propagating that LIE, let me explain something to you. When I said I didn't watch the Hawks as much in the second half... It was in reference to how much I watched them in the first half. IN the first half of the season, I watched quite a few Hawks game. IN the second half I didn't watch as many as I did in the first half. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I DIDN'T WATCH THE HAWKS AT ALL.

Second.

Three times Champs don't mean what you are trying to make it mean. It's Shaq, Kobe, Horry, Fisher, and Fox. That's the core. However, Horry and Fox are getting OLD. They have done nothing to sustain. ALSO, you can tell by the yrs how good the teams were.

Their first championship yr... They were not that good. They went 5 games with Sac-town. Needed the refs to save them from PTL and Rasheed Wallace. And beat a game Indy team.

Their 2nd championship team. This team was really their best effort. Swept through the West. Got blessed in that San Antonio came in injured but would have probably beaten them anyway. And Beat a game Philly team.

Their 3rd championship team. This team was worst of all. made their way into the WC Finals. And needed the Refs and an injured Peja to beat Sac-Town.

I say they are overrated because of Guys like you who say that these Lakers are 3 time champions and are the Best team this yr. When the truth is that this Laker team is the same Laker team that should have lost to Sac-Town and while Sac-Town got Better and Dallas got Better... This Laker team remained the same.

The great thing about basketball is that the season will determine who is right.

[Diesel]

NO. My point is that while the Lakers really declined.. .Everyone around them have gotten better. Sac-Town, Dallas, and LAC will be the Lakers Competition.

[nbafan]

Who cares about the media accounts. Most of those bobble heads have no idea about the importance of team chemistry and systems that create and exploit matchups. There is a big difference between trying to assess the most talented team and the best basketball team. The Del Harris Lakers in 1996 were a much more talented team than the current Lakers. They weren't even close as a basketball team.

Sacremento is more talented and deeper than the Lakers. The Lakers are a better basketball team. Which Bulls team are you asking about? The earlier teams were much more athletic and had more talent. The later teams won a lot like the current Lakers, by applying the defensive clamps late in the game.

I have no idea whether this Laker team could beat the Bulls teams. Both teams are similarly constructed, A lot of 6'7 plus guys that are interchangable defensively. The bulls had nobody to guard Shaq and clearly nobody can stop Jordan. It would be a low scoring game decided by defensive stops late.

I expect this season to be a lot like the last. The Kings will win the Pacific division, in part because Shaq will probably miss the first month of the season, and the championship will be decided by the Kings/Lakers playoff series. If the Lakers are healthy, I like their chances.

[chillzatl]

" say they are overrated because of Guys like you who say that these Lakers are 3 time champions and are the Best team this yr."

I never said that. I said that they Kings were the better team last year and should be the better team this year as well. PAY ATTENTION DUMMY.

What I said is that just because they KINGS are better that doesn't make the Lakers overrated. They are still easily a top 3 team, if not top 2. Just because you don't like them and you will spin things any way you can to get people to agree with you (which obviously nobody does in this case), doesn't mean they are overrated. They are STILL a top 2-3 team in the league and the Clippers, rockets and Mavs aren't going to change that. GET IT? GOT IT? GOOD!