A few thoughts on Gay,Aldrige and Hawks Draft

[Packfill]

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there isn't a chance in hell that they'll make the playoffs. They're 8-12 (.400) and they have the 2nd longest losing streak in the league. Also, as bad as their record was last year, that team has a lot of talent.

P.J. Brown

Rasual Butler

Speedy Claxton

Maciej Lampe

Desmond Mason

J.R. Smith

Kirk Snyder

are all pretty damn good. They have some young stars in the making like us, but unlike us they went out and got some role players like speedy and rasual butler.

To tell you the truth, I think they came out with a chip on their shoulder to represent their devastated city kind of like the saints in the nfl, and it's starting to wear off.

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do you honestly think that the Hornets have more talent then the Hawks? Lampe and Snyder barely play - and it would be hard to argue they are any better then Batista and Childress. Butler and Mason are o.k. players, but both are better suited to a back-up roll. Are they more talented then Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Al Harrington? J.R. Smith is a good young talent but will be lucky to be as good as JJ is right now - let alone as good as Salim is right now.

But I agree, it would be crazy if that team made the playoffs. They are alot like the Bucks team that made a run a few years ago with a rookie point guard, first time starter and shooting guard and some other young players.

[Lascar78]

more talent? probably, but not by much.

What they have is pieces that fit. You have players that could be stars, and players who are well established role players like PJ and Butler.

Their best lineup without a PG is

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JR Smith

Mason

Butler

Brown

Our best without a PG is

?

JJ

Al

Smith

Zaza

I still think their pieces fit much better. Their team is built for a team game, ours has individual pieces that don't really know how to play as a team. Smith and Al never do anything without the ball on offense. Their team kills ours on defense. And by the way JR is a much better player than Salim as of today. He can't light it up from the 3 like slim, but he's a much more complete player

Anyhow, I think that we're both bottom 5 teams by the end of the year. But Paul has had a great start, no doubt about it. Let's just not put him in the HOF just yet

[Packfill]

Agreed on their pieces fitting better then ours. Although I think you forgot about David West, their second best player. Nevertheless, if you look at it just from a telent perspective, minus the point guard position the Hawks clearly have a more talented line-up.

The Hawks and Hornets are opposites in terms of how to build a team in the NBA. The Hornets have gone with developing a team concept while the Hawks have gone with a talent acquisition concept. We will see which works out better.

[Lascar78]

agreed. All I'm saying is that Chris Paul isn't doing anything absolutely insane. He has played very well, and they got off to a 8-7 start. That's great, but it's just that, a start. Right now, it looks as if we should have taken Paul, but you don't judge those things after a month.

[Packfill]

I know what you are saying. I just wish the Hawks went with the team concept instead. It would be much more fun to watch.

[Diesel]

The person who did the comparison... ( A comparison of supposed Regression) Jumped from the 1st yr to the fourth year for Stoudamire...

IN Stoudamire's 2nd and 3rd year he played with those same Raptors and put up BETTER stats than His rookie campaign.. With and without Camby...

What happened was that he went to a PTL team where:

1. His minutes were cut. He went from playing 41 mpg to playing 33 mpg. This was because he was playing on a stacked team where the coach (Dunleavy) preached shared time for every position.

2. A good passing team with the likes of Arvydas Sabonis and Rasheed Wallace where it wasn't guaranteed that the PG would get the assist.

Stoudamire played in that system until he was old. He didn't see Big minutes again until he last yr...

But his ASr (assist ratio) Assist Ratio (available since the 1978 season in the NBA); the formula is 100*(AST / (FGA + 0.44*FTA + AST + TO)). Assist ratio is an estimate of assists per 100 possessions.

Has always been between 28-32.

[Diesel]

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Also, as bad as their record was last year, that team has a lot of talent.

P.J. Brown

Rasual Butler

Speedy Claxton

Maciej Lampe

Desmond Mason

J.R. Smith

Kirk Snyder

are all pretty damn good.

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I could just stop there and continue laughing... Scott just proclaimed that Lampe is not good enough to deserve playing time. Rasual Butler, Claxton, and now Mason are all Journey Men. Kirk Snyder? What has he done?

PJ Brown is solid (but Not damn good) and JR Smith is up and coming. The funniest thing is that when N.O. beat us, they didn't have Brown or Smith playing?

[Iman]

1. We probably would have drafted Deron if we took a point anyways. I'd like to see our list though.

2. It's only been 20 games. I'm shocked at how good the Hornets lead by Paul are doing. They dont seem to have hardly any talent to me, certainly less than the Hawks. I'd still bet we finish with a better record this year.

3. I've never seen a young player get off to such a hot start and then end up not being great. The Isaiah comparisions may be close, but it may just be because he's short-term turned around a bad team and put up great stats that will fall off soon. Jamal Tinsley, Tony Parker, and TJ Ford I think all came out hot. I would not trade Marvin for any of them.

I'm pretty sure Paul would make us much better right now but I see him being more of a better Bobby Jackson or Sam Cassell type player than another Isaiah. Lotsa flash and offense but no defense just wont carry you thru the playoffs. Marvin will be a great shooter I'm sure, if he ends up being slower and less athletic than we hope then maybe he'll just be another Big Dog. For sure he'll shoot better than Tim Thomas. I still wouldnt trade Marvin for Paul right now.

[Nicholasp27]

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The person who did the comparison... ( A comparison of supposed Regression) Jumped from the 1st yr to the fourth year for Stoudamire...

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actually, i jumped from 1st to 5th

why?

to show that as good as paul is now, he may be just an average to above average pg in 5 years, whereas most people predict marvin will be a star in 5 years

paul is winning now, sure

but if in 5 years he is putting up mighty mouse stats, then he won't be winning then if marvin comes even close to his predictions

i don't care if paul puts up better numbers the next 2 years...i care about who in this rookie class will be the best in 5+ years, when chill/smoove/slim/jj/zaza/2006 1st/etc are all near/in their primes and we may actually contend

THAT is when it'll be important

not now when we aren't making the playoffs this year with or without paul

[exodus]

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Marvin will be a great shooter I'm sure, if he ends up being slower and less athletic than we hope

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Hold up. Lack of speed isn't Marvins problem. he is going to have a speed advantage over almost everyone he faces. And if the guy facing him is faster than almost surely Marvin will have a size advantage.

I have no questions about Marvin's potential. His shot is as pure as you will see from someone his size. He just hasn't gotten comfortable yet but his form is perfect with a quick release.

I just question his skills and his will to develop them. He seems to have a good handle but I have yet to see him make a good move off the dribble to free himself for a score. I haven't seen him post up and make a good move for a score. If he has those skills he is sure hiding them well. If he doesn't then he needs to put in the effort to develop them.

So far I haven't seen a lot of effort in his game. However I was encouraged by the way he attacked the boards against the Spurs. he was very aggressive and got 7 boards in only 18 minutes.

If I sound conflicted about Marvin it's because I am. On the one hand I see a guy who could be a scary scorer, strong rebounder and defender. On the other I see a guy who definitely shows signs of underachieving. Hopefully he will get his act together fairly soon and start showing everyone why they picked him at 2.

[Lascar78]

you can look at damon's assists per 48 and you'll see that they've been on a pretty steady decline since his rookie year

[Packfill]

Can the Hawks afford all those guys 4+ years from now? By that time all will be off their rookie contracts. If Marvin is close to living up to his "hype" then he gets max, and if Josh Smith is the next Shawn Kemp he gets the max. Add in JJ's max and a bigger deal for Zaza . . .

[Diesel]

So you mean, looking at his stats being steady with Toronto and then dropping with the drop in PT at PTL had nothing to do with your comparison..

Come on Nick...

You must think we're a bunch of idiots here on Hawksqauwk...

Moreover, there's nothing to suggest that any kind of drop off will happen to Paul? He was good in HS, he was good in College, and he's good Now.

[mudderfudder77]

I love how all of the arguments here seem to be based on the suggestion that Paul will get worse and Marvin will get better.

There is no evidence to show that either will happen. You've trotted out one guy as evidence of a PG regressing. He also happens to be a player with an attitude problem who was shipped off to a veteran team where his minutes declined. Any more examples?

Or shall I start the never ending list of players, like Marvin, who were drafted on "potential" and never realized it?

So you wouldn't want Paul - because he might get worse - but you'll take Marvin because you swear he'll get better. The youth excuse can only last so long.

There is nothing wrong with having faith in a player, but to argue that he was a better pick because the other guy is going to regress is laughable.

[Nicholasp27]

do u guys even read?

i said that paul will most likely not regress...his major enemy will be if he's injury prone (which he's not as of yet)

i stated that i was showing an example to show that it is NOT insanity if someone wants to think paul may regress...it HAS happened and it CAN happen

i think paul will be a good pg for many years...but i'd rather have tmac than dre/bibby/billups/marbury/francis so long as we can get a decent pg in the next few years

again, if we end up getting a quality pg by the time we are ready to contend, then that's all that matters...if we never do so we never contend, then this will have been a mistake

i'm more worried about the TEAM'S success in the FUTURE than i am about any PLAYER's success NOW