Keep Al Harrington

[joannes3000]

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We will NOT win a championship with the talent we have currently. We will NOT win a championship if we get a point guard OR a center.

Thereofore, it would tell me that we need BOTH a point guard AND a center to get to championship level (also depth of course). We have only one first round pick in the next two years (Phoenix has the other two) so gaining talent comes down to that one pick and free agency this year. The free agent class this offseason is not very good.

We almost NEED to trade Al to get a third way to gain talent. You cannot bank that BOTH other ways to gain talent WILL DEFINITELY get us what we need.

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Since you're talking championship Level.. Tell me.

1. How many championship teams ever got rid of good talent in a trade and didn't get back equal talent?

2. How many championship teams ever got to the championship without a multitude of talent and depth?

Did you ever notice that Detroit traded UP in talent. remember, the guys that they got rid of: Sura, Googs, etc... They got Rasheed Wallace to replace those guys?

3. How many championship teams traded their 1st or 2nd offensive option along the road to becoming championship material?

Notice I have never said Al was untradable... But if you trade Al, get equal value. It's as simple as that.

Why do you think Al is the only player that we can trade to get this magical C or PG.

Look at it realistically. We are going to be in the lottery of the draft. That's one of those positions. Unfortunately, I doubt that BK will ever address PG. IF you look over his track record with us, it seems that he doesn't believe in getting quality PGs. IF so, we'd have Howard Eisley right now or we'd have Matten Cleeves right now or we'd have Chris Paul right now. So in the draft, Espect us to come away with a big man. Then what??

Then you say.. "let's trade Al".. Why? If BK trades Al, it certainly won't be for a PG.

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2. It's tough to use Detroit's aquisition of 'Sheed as a standard though. Remember, all we wanted to do was slash payroll when we swung that deal.

[Diesel]

I really wasn't looking from our perspective, I was looking from theirs..

They were close to championship quality. What did they do.. They traded all their ending contracts for an ending contract. In this case, it was for a guy who was better than all those other guys combined. They even gave us a 1st for our troubles...

The end result was that the one quality guy made them champions.

When you consider us now, we are far from championship material.. BUT... You don't trade a good player for less than equal value if your goal is building.

We have done the destruction before. We have traded guys in order to clear cap space before. That's what rebuilding teams do. However, at some point, your mind has to move from rebuilding to building. Too many squawkers have their minds set at rebuilding. They aren't happy unless we're getting a first rounder for one of our top talent.

The truth is this.

I could care less about our Lottery pick this year as compared to a player who can play. What I mean is that if we could trade that pick for proven talent, I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm tired of having the diaper bag and the warm bottle every year. We have enough young players who all play the same position... I don't want to hear BK say, we're taking Gay and we don't have a logjam.. At some point, we have to build smarter.. We can't do that by constantly starting over.

[chillzatl]

stop putting words in my mouth for sake of your childish arguements. A team doesn't have to be in contention for a title to be able to offer Al a max contract. NObody ever said it HAD to be a max contract. But there are LOTS of teams out there that can offer him a heck of a lot more than the MLE AND a better situation than we can.

And chicago is a hell of a lot closer to being a contender than we are. Al more than likely puts them in the playoffs. How close to the playoffs is he getting us now? Chicago isn't the only team that could offer him enough of both (money and a real chance) to get him out of Atlanta.

[exodus]

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Look at it realistically. We are going to be in the lottery of the draft.

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Since when have you looked at anything realistically?

You were the one trumpeting the Hawks playoff hopes not long ago.

You thought the Knicks were for real when they won 6 straight.

You thought the Hawks could continue to shoot 50% from 3 for the rest of the season when they did it for a few weeks

in Dec.

You thought the Hawks could win 10 straight after getting blown out by Miami.

You started a thread saying Zaza was the second best center in the east.

You said the Candiman would be a good addition for the Hawks.

And now you want to be the voice of reason?

[Diesel]

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But there are LOTS of teams out there that can offer him a heck of a lot more than the MLE AND a better situation than we can.

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You see this is exaggeration gone bad. There are NOT A lot of teams that can offer more than the MLE. IN fact, there are only a few teams that can offer more than the MLE. To be specific.

Chicago.

New Orleans

Seattle (can offer 6 million)

Clipps

That's 4 out of 30 teams... NOT A LOT. These are the guys who can offer more than the MLE. Let's look at each.

Clipps.. They have Maggette and I get the feeling that they will resign Sam Cassell.

Chicago Could come after Al; But I think they would consider a sign and trade.

N.O. could come after Al.

Seattle doesn't have enough money to come after Al.

BK has done the math better than me or you.. Plus he knows what teams are willing to give for a signed Al. You can sit here all day talking gloom and doom as if Al is going to leave his Bird Rights behind to take a 6 million dollar deal to play with the Sonics... Or to play with another team that is only slightly better than us talentwise...

However, the truth is that Al has LEFT a winning situation to play for us... When he left the winning situation, he said that he had NO regrets because he wanted to get more touches. Lately he has said he wants more money. I don't think he's as thirsty for a winning situation as you say (meaning that he would give up his bird rights for it without considering a negotiation).

[Diesel]

Thanks for the recap northcyde... Way to try to change the subject there.

[chillzatl]

You said chicago, I say a lot. In reality it's 4-5 teams. Damn I sure blew that one...

And stop being childish. I'm not saying that's it's "doom and gloom". It's just the reality of the situation. He's tired of losing. He's said it more than once. If a good situation came his way, he wouldn't flat our refuse them just because we can offer him more money. He's not stupid. He knows that if we pay him big, the chances of us being able to get the other things we need to become a winner drop dramatically.

and Al did not LEAVE a winning situation. He was traded. He had no say in the matter. Don't paint it like he just packed up and left Indiana to come to the dreadful Hawks. You don't think he's thirsty for a winning situation, because it's contrary to your arguements. But he's said it more than once and that pretty much makes your opinion null and void.

[Diesel]

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stop putting words in my mouth for sake of your childish arguements. A team doesn't have to be in contention for a title to be able to offer Al a max contract. NObody ever said it HAD to be a max contract.

But there are LOTS of teams out there that can offer him a heck of a lot more than the MLE AND a better situation than we can

.

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Now, this is chillz talking. Notice the LOTS in all caps. That was meant for effect right Chillz. However, when put to the numbers, the numbers say that there are ONLY Four of the 30 teams in the NBA that can give more than the MLE this summer... ONLY FOUR....not a HECK OF A LOT but ONLY FOUR....

Let's look at Chill'z response to this exaggeration...

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You said chicago, I say a lot. In reality it's 4-5 teams. Damn I sure blew that one...

I think you did Chillz. I mean, even in your response, you try to exaggerrate it.. 4-5.. NO CHILLZ it's ONLY FOUR. ONLY FOUR TEAMS that can offer more than the MLE.

So let's look at the other part of this:

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And chicago is a hell of a lot closer to being a contender than we are.

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As of right now.. Chicago = 20-25 Hawks = 13-31. So a "HELL OF A LOT CLOSER" = 6.5 games? More importantly, Chicago (like us) is not in the playoff contention right now. They are also losers of their last 2 games..

The point is that we have to look past exaggeration like this... The facts are simple. THERE ARE 4 teams that can go after All with more than the MLE.. Of those 4, only 3 would probably want to. OF those three ONLY TWO can offer more than 8 million.

[Diesel]

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and Al did not LEAVE a winning situation. He was traded. He had no say in the matter. Don't paint it like he just packed up and left Indiana to come to the dreadful Hawks.

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That's half the story.. He would still be a Pacer had he not asked for out...

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It was only about 18 months ago when the 6-foot-8 Harrington, frustrated with his role on a Pacer team that advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals,

asked out of Indiana

(although he first voiced his displeasure to Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh and not the Indianapolis Star, as Artest did). Harrington had just finished runner-up to Antawn Jamison for NBA sixth man of the year but he felt stifled in Pacers Coach Rick Carlisle's regimented offensive system, playing behind both Artest and his best friend, Jermaine O'Neal.

Since joining the Hawks following a trade that sent Stephen Jackson to Indiana, Harrington has been granted his wish of becoming a team leader and an offensive focal point.

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"It wasn't about starting. It was more an issue I had with my coach," Harrington said of Pacers coach Rick Carlisle. "For some reason Rick didn't have the same amount of confidence in me that the rest of the organization had in me. I felt I paid my dues, and I felt things should be worked a lot more to me than he did. That was my biggest problem in Indiana.

"When you're on a team with 61 wins, there is not too much that you can complain about," he said. "I just felt that I was being held back too much."

Carlisle didn't dispute Harrington's claims that he had to abandon aspects of his game for the success of the team. Harrington was forced to come off the bench last season because the Pacers had two All-Star forwards in O'Neal and Ron Artest.

"He made big sacrifices," Carlisle said. "I always knew he wanted to touch the ball more, but he did what he had to do to help our team.

"This is his time to prove that he is a top player in this league, and I think he will. It's the perfect situation for him, where he can be the focal point of an offense and an anchor on defense. Al's a guy that has the ability to be an All-Star caliber player."

Walsh calls Harrington "one of my favorite people" and said he didn't want to trade him.

"But I couldn't deny him. I knew it was the right thing to do," Walsh said. "Al is going to be a terrific player there. I expect Al to be a 20-plus scorer. He'll have a breakout year."

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Keep talking Chillz.

[Plainview1981]

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hicago could re-sign ALL of those guys to whatever amount they wanted, because they own every one of those player's Bird Rights.

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The guy who broke up the BULLS DYNASTY because he didn't want to pay Scottie Pippen more than the MLE... He's going to pay "ALL OF THOSE GUYS WHATEVER AMOUNT THEY WANT"??

That's about the dumbest post I ahve read in a long time Northcyde. Just dumb... and the funny part is that you actually believe it??

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he Bulls could run their payroll up to 90 million if they wanted to, if those guys were vital to winning championships. They just wouldn't be able to add free agents to the mix without a trade.

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So Al is the missing piece for Chicago? I mean, once Al goes to Chicago, they're going to be a championship team??

Hell, if that's the case, we ought to keep Al. We want to go to the championship too? Why give Chicago the missing link?? According to you, it would be like giving them Jordan all over again!! YOu do know that we turned down a Jordan for Tree Rollins trade back in the day... BK would be foolish to let Chicago just have the championship OR the trips to the Championship and deny us the chance to go...

But Reinsdorf is not going to pay a luxury tax nor is he going to max out Al when he can do a SNT. He has far too much to lose later. Revisit the summer of Eddie Jones and Eddie Griffin.

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The Hawks GAVE the missing link to Detroit two years ago.

[AHF]

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The Hawks GAVE the missing link to Detroit two years ago.

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In exchange for Josh Smith. That deal worked out well for both teams and I don't think either regrets making it. Wallace would have walked for nothing if we didn't do the deal.