Sacred cows and Scapegoats

[tmac13]

I always find it interesting how some guys are held in high esteem around here, and some get blasted on a daily basis..

Sacred cows

BK..the ultimate sacred cow..Has the worst record of any GM in recent history, has accumulated lots of talent at mostly one position, is a total azz everytime someone sticks a microphone in his face, yet, he is beloved by most of you..He has some "secret vision" which you guys refer to like the holy grail of basketball..He also seems to gain points with alot of you guys for being surly and disregarding of the fans...Say something bad about BK and prepare to be flamed..

JJ..is a very good player..He is not in any way a superstar, but alot of you seem to think he is..Superstars actually lead their teams to wins. While JJ has a young supporting cast, he quite often misses a few shots early then defers to others to carry the scoring load..Another thing that has become quite apparent, he is not the defensive player we were led to believe..He simply cannot handle any quickness from the opposing guards..

Scapegoats

Al..poor Al, he gets blamed for everything..Heres the deal on Al..If we had a real pf, and if we didn't have Smoove, Chillz and Marvin who all play the same position as Al's natural sf spot, we would be thrilled to have him and worried to death about losing him..NO, Al is not a good defender, but, he is much better than Smoove or Marvin as a 1 on 1 defender..Smoove blocks shots, but the rest of his defense is awful and Marvin is a foul waiting to happen..Al gets beat up because BK forced him to play out of position and used our last 3 1st rounders to duplicate his natural spot.

Marvin..Marvin is in the unfortunate position of being Sam Bowie to Chris Pauls Michael Jordon..He will be a good player, but gets beat up mostly because he is BK's 5th sf in 3 years.

Smoove, Chillz, Zaza and the rest seem to mostly get passes and not draw nearly as much fire or passion of the board..

[dalamchops]

i stopped reading when you said AL's a much better defender.

[tmac13]

Al is a much better 1 on 1 defender than Smoove or Marvin..Watch any game and you will see it..Marvin will be better when he learns not to foul so much, and Smoove just seems to have mental lapses..Remember Al should be playing the 3 spot, not the 4..Last year when Walker was here Al was an adequate defender at the 3.

[exodus]

ROFL

Next game count how many times Al contests a shot in the lane. Against NJ he did it once, against Vaughn.

[tmac13]

Ex, anything you say about Al is dismissed as quickly as anything Diesel says about Marvin..Insane hate in both directions..The fact is, Al played sf last year, and noone complined about his defense, he is just not an interior defender.

[exodus]

So why don't you count how many shots he contests next game?

Because you know the truth contradicts your argument.

[Popeye]

Quote:

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So why don't you count how many shots he contests next game?

Because you know the truth contradicts your argument.

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Ex, Tmac13 has a point that Al was a much better defender last year when he played SF, he actually puts a hand in shooters face sometimes and yes he is a slighty better 1 on 1 defender than Smoove and Marvin, but he should be way better than them since both of them are unexperienced.

It's not about blocking, for example when Wallace droped 40 on Smoove and Smoove blocked him like 2 times i think but who cares that's just good for the stats.

[exodus]

I know Al is better on the perimeter defensively. I have said so many times. However that doesn't excuse him from giving guys a free pass every time in the lane.

[exodus]

Quote:

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He said a better 1 on 1 defender, and that usually means perimeter. Al usually contests his own man's shot, but hardly ever does he contest as a help defender,

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Why would that mean perimeter? Al plays pf.

And no he doesn't usually contest his own man's shot. If his man is shooting from inside 5 ft Al almost never contests his shot.

[Lascar78]

I fail to see how BK is a sacred cow. He probably takes more criticism than any other single person on this board. There is only one poster that treats him as a sacred cow (kb21).

There tends to be more defense of him than a lot of people simply because more people attack him than most. How many thousands of threads have been started simply to bash his last draft pick? I don't think that would be the case if he was a sacred cow. He's closer to a scapegoat than a sacred cow. You only put him on the sacred cow list because you don't like him.

I would agree that to some extent JJ is a sacred cow, and Al and Marvin are scapegoats. Lue can be a scapegoat too when healthy.

[Diesel]

I think worldwide, the media bashes BK for not picking Paul.. Just about every Hawks broadcast will have those faithful words.. "The Hawks passed up Chris Paul to take this kid. Imagine if the Hawks had gotten, Paul, they'd have one of the best Backcourts in basketball."

So there's a lot of media bashing of BK's pick.. But that's quickly defended on Hawksquawk as Tmac said. BK is a sacred cow of sorts here.. because Hawksquawk wouldn't stand for Babcock to do some of the things that BK has done.

[Lascar78]

there are more threads / posts talking sh!t about Billy Knight here on hawksquawk than there are about any other single person. In order, the most negative posts are probably written about

1-Billy Knight

2a-Marvin Williams (less people, but more posts than Al)

2b-Al Harrington

4-Isiah Thomas

5-Lue

[tmac13]

I readily admit I think BK has thus far done a very poor job..I won't pretend anything else..Its hard to question draft picks most of the time because it is so hit and miss..However, a glaring mistake like Marvin over paul needs to be talked about..The reason it stands out so much is because it was a ego/vision driven pick..We had a clear need..Instead of filling that clear need we drafted another sf because of BK's long 6'8" filled team he invisions..Then we spent 70 million, 2 draft picks and a fair player away for a guy BK was determined to play out of position, simply because BK doesn't respect the need to fill positions..JJ is a very good player, I am glad we have him, but don't force him to play the point when he is a great 2..That makes no sense..We sacrafice wins for BK's ego.

We have played for long stretches this season extremely shorthanded with Tony Delk sitting inactive..Why?..Because Delk ticked BK off by picking up his option..Once again, we sacrafice wins for his ego..

I don't argue that BK has not brought in some talent..What I argue is he has passed up on other talented players that would have made us a much better team..I always read here where people say, we don't want to be competing for the 8th spot in the playoffs, we want to be competing for chamionships..Well, you have to crawl before you walk..Most teams don't go from bad to great overnight, there are small improvements along the way..One of the 1st steps is putting a complete team on the floor, and for some reason BK simply hasn't done that..Instead, he has loaded the team with young small forwards, which forces guys to eitherplay out of position or only get limited minutes because of the redundancy..

[tmac13]

There is always a brigade of the blind followers that come to his defense..His admirers here far outnumber his detractors.

[chillzatl]

BK: He gets bashed here frequently. I dont think anyone gives him a pass. But it's ridiculous to say that he hasn't done a lot of good. He's brought in talent and he's cleared our cap space. That would be priority #1 for any GM who stepped in where he did. It's fine to disagree with his draft choices. But you can't call them failures until the puzzle is complete.

JJ: He's not a star yet. But he's showing that he has the ability to be that player. Before our depth got crushed by injuries, he was playing at a top 5 level for his position. Keep in mind that this is his first year in that role too. As with all things, it takes time.

Al: Al is a good player who gets little respect around here. He's not a great defender. But on a team with a few good defenders, he wouldn't hurt you. It's unfortunate for him that we don't have any good defenders here so that people could see it. Becuase that's why most people seem to bash him. The bash Al crowd like to jump between his bad defense and his non-clutchness.

Marvin: the only people that bash marvin are those that can't get over the fact that we didn't draft chris paul. Otherwise it's hard to be disappointed with him. He's done about everything a 19yo rookie can be expected to do.

[Lascar78]

yeah I know plenty of people defend him. But face it, this is a hawks board. Any time any one bashes someone in the hawks family, at least a portion of the board will defend that person. In the case of a guy like BK, he gets defended a lot because he gets attacked a lot.

There isn't a single guy affiliated with the hawks that doesn't get defended by some when attacked. I guess maybe Belkin if you consider him as still part of the family.

I just don't see how the guy who catches more negative posts than anyone else (BK) is a sacred cow. A lot of people hate what he's doing, a lot of people are willing to be patient with him.

At this point in time, the only guy who enjoys near unanimous support is JJ. Al and BK are at the bottom of the list

[Diesel]

I disagree.

I think the ranking goes a little more like this:

1. Al hate.

2. Woody Hate.

3. Marvin Hate.

4. Diesel Hate.

5. BK Hate.

6. Isiah hate.

7. Ivey hate

8. Diaw hate.

9. Chris Paul hate.

10. JChillz hate.

[AHF]

I think you have to put the rankings in relation to what they have done to deserve it (i.e., Isiah doesn't make the list) and exclude people who aren't employed in any way by the NBA. I will also personally disregard non-Hawks like Diaw. So I'd rank them:

Most unduly hated:

(1) Al (too much scapegoating - he is what he is and that is a good but flawed player)

(2) Marvin (he didn't pick himself above Chris Paul)

(3) Ivey (he is a second round pick)

[Weez]

you think you get more 'hate' that BK? hmmm. maybe from the more consistent posters (maybe), but there are reasons for that same as there are reasons people 'hate' on the others listed in your list.

[exodus]

So basically you are saying that you are the most hated posted on this board by far. Darned if i can figure out why since since you are so knowlegable and reasonable.