Why can't we learn from football.

[Diesel]

Getting into the hype from the NFL draft...

I have found that there's a lot of movement after the combines. Some teams have been wowed by a guy who can run a 4.3 forty... or a guy who can benchpress 315 10 times... or whatever. Or a guy with amazing football size.

However, the best GMs take players who can play. Like in N.E. I think for a while there, the Pats didn't pick any of the best potential guys... They just got the guys who showed what they had week in and week out on Sat.

Why can't the Hawks do the same thing.

I don't want to see another guy picked because he has "great Potential". We've been down the roads of Demarr and Seen some flops.

I think for this draft, we should get those guys who are proven.

That means:

Shelden Williams, Roy, M. Williams, or Foye.

I keep hearing about Sene and all these other guys who are just potential...

I don't know.

After seeing how Chris Paul dominated the Rooks this year... I think that says something about proven talent.

[RAHMOR]

I agree it doesn't hurt to get proven talent in the draft. I think Lamarcus Aldridge is proven talent. He nearly averaged a double double all season and I pray that we get him. Even though I know you don't like Europlayers Bargnani is a proven talent where he plays as well.

[Diesel]

Actually, I didn't mention Aldridge because my thought is that we will be picking 5th. Unless somehow we win the lottery...

[AHF]

Remember, though, that football players have played at least through their Junior Seasons in college and have a record of productivity.

In basketball, many of the best players didn't have much more than potential to go on:

Kobe

Lebron

Bosh

Garnett

Kemp

Malone

Howard

J.O'Neal

McGrady

Amare

etc.

It is a different calculas in basketball due to the age factor in both sports.

I'd love it if they made player ineligible for the draft until they had developed a track record of performance, though, from my seat as a fan.

[Diesel]

Good point..

I think that's why so many people are drawn to potential is because of the HSers who have found success.

However, for every Lebron, there's a T. Outlaw.

For every Kobe there's a Ousmaine Cisse.

For every Tmac there's a Dontonio Wingfield.

For every Kemp there's an Ernest Brown.

Like you said... The calculus is too hard in most causes.

[Duff_Man]

The sports are different. The NBA draft is all about potential. The NFL draft is all about instant contributions and quantity of picks. Different monsters altogether.

[Diesel]

Micheal Vick was a pick based on Potential. He sat his first year and I still don't think he's reached it yet.

If it were all about instant contribution, Matt Lenart would be picked first tommorow.

[Admin]

or maybe even later, if memory serves. The majority of the teams in the league knew that he would never make it at the NFL level. I am a major Hurricanes fan and even I never thought he had a chance.

[Diesel]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard...

The point is this...

You don't spend your top pick on potential.

I don't mind going after Potential in the late first or even in the 2nd round. But in the lottery, you need to come away with a proven player.

Dorsey Had LIMITATIONS and this is further highlighted by the fact that he wasn't the first player picked in the draft. Hell he wasn't even pick in the first round.

[frosgrim]

Actually, there are potential picks in the NFL and there are demonstrated ability picks in the NFL. It depends on the team, the circumstances and the GM.

Vick was a near concensus 1 with Tomlinson second. Or, how about the Manning/Leaf draft?

But look at some of the other high picks over the years, esp at QB.

So, to make blanket statements is just hyperbole.

[Diesel]

Well, the original statement is looking at the tendency of championship teams in football..

In 1999 - Damien Woody and Andy Katsmoyer.

In 1994 - Willie McGinniest

In 1995 - Ty Law

In 1996 - Terry Glenn

In 1997 - Chris Canty

in 2000..J. R. Redmond.

in 2001.. Matt Light

They have a track-record of getting proven guys even when other guys were on the table who may have had better combine times or combine showings or even better bodies..

They picked up Law in front of Corey Fuller and Devin Bush. These other two were more highly sougth than Law..

[Wurider05]

That isn't a very good comparison because a football player proves his worth on the field of play. I have never heard of a football player being drafted on potential but rather on productivity and ability.

[Diesel]

I agree with that.

But what I do see is that Mock boards change drastically after the combine.... Right after the season, nobody was talking about Williams #1... The talk was Bush, Leinart, Vince...?

Sure Williams proved himself in the latter half of the season... But he had a good combine and he skyrockets to top of the draftboard...

To me that's similar to these guys who do little or nothing in college but because they can jump 43 inches or because they have the right "frame" they get a high pick?

Winning football programs almost seem to ignore size and combine numbers...

They pick the players who brought it every week... and they usually are rewarded.. where as losing programs go for the guys who look like a football player and find out that they look like Tarzan and play like Jane.

[Wurider05]

That was well said. Many NBA franchises have been ruined based of can't miss/sure fire/all-star/superstar potential. I got the potential to be the first man on Mars but we know that is not going to happen. But seriously I think that most GM's don't want to miss out on the next big superstar and lived to regret it.

[Diesel]

Well, let's put it like this.

Put Dorsey with a pro team with a good offensive line and he will probably show up.

[Weez]

thank you for spinning Pasquerelli's (sp) most recent article on the NFL draft...

[Diesel]

Link?

[Weez]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/colu..._len&id=2428160

[Diesel]

My post actually pre-dates L.P.'s article.

Maybe he's a Squawk reader... and became inspired by my commentary?

At any cost, I think the information is the most important thing. Championship Football teams have learned that guys who can prove themselves on every level is much better than guys with potential.

Here lately in basketball, I think we have gotten enamoured with Size and have forgotten about if a guy can actually bring it. Maybe it is Kobe, Tmac, and KG's fault.