So....

[Dukegotgame]

where are all the people who said diaw would fade in the playoffs? all he has done is put up close to triple double numbers. of course, a guy who has no holes in his game and is taking it to brand and LO offensivley has no spot on our team! Again, I love JJ, but terrible trade. Diaw way end up being the better play in the long run. Then you consider the 2 first round picks and the salaries of the players and we look foolish

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

Diaw way end up being the better play in the long run.

---

This statement is completely absurd

[Dukegotgame]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Diaw way end up being the better play in the long run.

---

This statement is completely absurd

---

I think it is obvious but I meant to type "may" instead of "way"

While I am not saying it is destined to happen, for you to dismiss the possibility of it occuring is absurd.

[Lascar78]

yeah you're right, it must be nothing but a coincidence that Diaw looks better than he ever has, Raja Bell looks better than he ever has, Tim Thomas looks better than he ever has, Marion was mentioned as an MVP candidate. But hey it must be because they're all suddenly playing so much better following individual epiphanies, not the system or the play of back to back MVP Steve Nash or anything...

Diaw is a role player who folded in a tough situation and who looks great on a loaded team with an MVP point guard. JJ is a star that can carry a team and that you can build around.

I would do that deal again any day of the week. Diaw would have walked anyhow.

[tmac13]

Say whatever you want, we gave up too much..Diaw as a throw in because Woody doesn't have a clue, and 2 1st rounders..Thats too much no matter how you slice it..Phoenix would do that deal any day of the week also.

One more question, besides Nash and Marion, how is Phoenix a loaded team this year?..In my opinion it just shows how good of a coach D'Antoni is.

[Lascar78]

I knowo Phoenix would do it again. I would rate the trade an A- for us, and an A+ for them. Not every trade has to have a winner and a loser. They didn't want to pay Joe, they got some picks and a role player that fits. We got the best player we've had in a long, long, long time to carry or team and build around.

It's just a great organization all around. Great drafting, great coaching, great player acquisitions.

Even without Amare and Kurt, you have an MVP and an MVP candidate in Nash and Marion. That alone makes you close to loaded. Other than that, everyone else can shoot / score which is a perfect fit for Diaw. House is like Salim with a jumper. Jones can score. Thomas was acquired late but he can score. Pretty much everyone who got minutes (basically the guys I just listed) can flat out score. They aren't all-stars, but they can score which plays right into Diaw's games. They also run at a frantic pace, which means everyone gets stats of all kinds. More posessions means more assists, more points, more rebounds...

[macdaddy]

You may not believe it but PHX wouldn't have done the deal without getting a player in return. Its not a fluke that Diaw has done well with them. They knew his skills and thought he would work for them and he has. But he never could have done for the Hawks what JJ is doing.

I guarantee there is not a single GM in the league who would take Diaw over JJ straight up and neither of them are 18. So to think that Diaw will somehow become a better player than JJ is just fantasy.

[tmac13]

I disagree completely..Diaw was a throw in, no a major part of the deal..Diaw and 2 1st rounders..Remember, Phoenix didn't wanna pay JJ anyway..BK gave too much..Besides all that, BK and Woody are supposed to be experts at evaluating talent..Shouldn't they have known how good Diaw could be?..I agree completely that Diaw is not as good as JJ and never will be, I know I have never said anything like that..

The bottom line is, we gave up too soon on Diaw because BK got bluffed and Woody doesn't have a clue..

[chillzatl]

Ok, yah, we gave up a "little" too much. But when you suck sometimes you have to do that. We're not the first team to have to do it and we won't be the last. Would those who bitch that we gave away the farm prefer that we kept Diaw and didn't get JJ? NUFF SAID.

And yes, I have semi-flipped. Woodson didn't quite blow it. But he sure didn't do enough. After hearing his interview with the Stews yesterday, he apparantly rode Diaw too hard and Diaw couldn't take it and wanted to be traded. It just so happened that we had a deal in the works that needed a throw in player so it fit. But a lot of the failings are Diaw's as well. I would say more than Woodsons. He wanted to play a certain style of ball, a euro style, and fortunately for him he went to the only team in the league that plays that way.

BK DID NOT BLOW IT AT ALL! He's the one that saw the talent Diaw had and drafted him. He saw exactly what everyone else is seeing right now. That Diaw can do a little bit of everything.

[Diesel]

JJ without Diaw than NO JJ.

The only reason that Phoenix did not resign JJ is because JJ asked them not to. Business wise, Phoenix was holding every card and it would have made more sense to match, then trade him in the middle of the season. Phoenix did the classy thing by sending JJ to a place where he wanted to play. JJ even said that if Phoenix would have matched, he would have played and not been a disruption... So there was nothing really for Phoenix to lose.

BK got a deal that was fair to Phoenix in what they were giving up.

Moreover, when you look at JJ, he's on the second tier of SGs and could be first tier with Wade, AI, Kobe, Vince, and Tmac if he works on his consistency.

Diaw has done well.. but wasn't willing to do the same here. He played like crap because we wouldn't play his way. He was merely bidding his time. To me, I'm glad that we got a good player in exchange for that.

[Johnnybravo4]

You need no more proof of the PHX system than looking at the play of Tim Thomas. Chi-town basically paid him 13 million dollars NOT TO PLAY FOR THEM, he sucked so badly. Now he looks like the 2006 Robert Horry.

[xhawk]

Lascar, thats a good point that you made. Because of their pace, Phoenix runs system that is good for getting numbers. Especially this year with the loss of Amare. The must play even faster and Amare is not eating up numbers with his monster nights. There are more shots and therefore more points, more assists and more rebounds. Also you have to remember that Boris' ball handling and decision skills look a whole lot better when being guarded by Centers. Here in Atlanta we tried to make him a guard, when he really did not have the skillset for it. The coach in Phoenix has really done a great job.

However, one thing that you must say about the JJ trade is that Phoenix's window to win a championship is closing while Atlanta's window (while small) is opening. Steve Nash will not play at this level forever. Boris will want a payday. Amare may never return true to form. Marion will probably contiue to play well for a number of years, but who else has a positive age, ability and contract outlook?

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...However, one thing that you must say about the JJ trade is that Phoenix's window to win a championship is closing while Atlanta's window (while small) is opening....

---

LOL - they have Diaw + our 2 1st round picks + their own. They have a secure future while our coach is hoping to draft Noah.

[Diesel]

I don't think TT was ever that bad. I think Chi-Town just wasted him..

But there again, nobody is questioning Chicago's coaching or their front office about Tim Thomas...

When I look at Phoenix, I see...

A bunch of role players surrounding one of the best PGs in the game. It really can't help but work.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

LOL - they have Diaw + our 2 1st round picks + their own. They have a secure future while our coach is hoping to draft Noah.

---

That doesn't change the fact that the whole system is run by Nash's amazing play and it's only a matter of time before he drops off. Who knows what happens then. Marion and Amare are great, great players, but I don't see them leading a championship caliber team without the likes of Nash to get the best out of anyone.

[macdaddy]

Everyone seems to neglect the fact that Phx hasn't won anything yet!! They have an mvp and they've put up big numbers in the regular season but what makes them an elite team? They could end up being like Minnesota or Portland from a few years ago. A good team that never makes it to the finals. (now that I've said it they'll go this year)

Just because they score a lot doesn't put them in the same league as SA or Detroit.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

where are all the people who said diaw would fade in the playoffs? all he has done is put up close to triple double numbers. of course, a guy who has no holes in his game and is taking it to brand and LO offensivley has no spot on our team! Again, I love JJ, but terrible trade. Diaw way end up being the better play in the long run. Then you consider the 2 first round picks and the salaries of the players and we look foolish

---

LOL @ U

quote of the night from the LA/PHX game. it's the 1st posession of the 2nd half and Doug Collins says quote "Pheonix just can't get into rhythym." LOL they had 51 points. 51 points at the half and they "can't get into rhythym?" i immediately thought to myself "damn, they're on pace to score 102, what's wrong with that.... oh they don't play a lick of defense.

anybody's stats would look good on that team. Diaw is a total product of an uptempo offensive system. in fact when I clicked on this site today the first thought I had was i'm going to post something about all this Diaw @ss kissing.

if you stick Boris Diaw on the Milwaukee Bucks he's an average role player off the bench. you stick Desmond Mason on the Suns and somebody gives him 5 yrs 50 million a year later.

i'm not impressed with Diaw or the silly arguments made by the Diaw Nuthuggers on this board.

[Iman]

Diaw has got amazingly better in some areas. He now fits and understands the offense that he's playing in so he takes most of the shots that he should. He's finishing in the paint much better and shooting free throws much better. Some of the finishing in the paint improvement is due to the more wide open floor I'm sure. In Atlanta he repeatedly missed shots 2 feet from the basket.

But when you get down to it, he would not have helped our team much this year, even if we had a different Coach. He was one of our swingplayers and we moved him. Other than being longer, I'm not that sure he's much better than Donta and for sure he would not get much playing time in front of all our other swingmen. Speaking of Donta, I bet he'd average 10, 4, and 4 on Phoenix and I'm not sure we'll even resign him.

We overpaid for JJ, no doubt. But we had lots to give and needed a good player. Diaw and those picks had lotsa value but not so much for us. Diaw didnt fit. The draft picks would have just been for more young players to develop and we already have about enough of those. JJ's salary was the biggest thing we gave up. Probaby then next year's pick unless we make the playoffs, then I'd actually even value this year's Laker pick that we gave higher than I'd value Diaw for our team. Even if we had drafted a point guard last year and didnt resign Al, I still dont see Diaw being any more than the third man off our bench, maybe later depending on who we drafted this year. He's gone, and he's goofy looking anyways, forget about him.

[Lascar78]

Agreed.

I didn't take them seriously last year because they couldn't play enough D to succeed in intense playoff matchups. This year I thought they might have it with Kurt Thomas and Bell playing playoff D. But with Amare and Kurt out they aren't contenders. You're not going to go too far in the playoffs with Marion-Diaw as your 4-5. Diaw gets great offensive stats as a 4/5 because he can blow right by his man. The problem is that good 4/5s can abuse him in the post. LA didn't have such people, but you saw what the clippers did last night. Pound it inside and Phoenix has no answer. Sometimes they have enough firepower to win a shootout, but I expect them to lose in 6 or 7 to the clips.

If steve Nash fades in a year or two, who knows what that team becomes? They still have talent, but without the guy to run the unbelievable offense, how are they going to win? Amare isn't exactly a defensive specialist

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

We overpaid for JJ, no doubt. But we had lots to give and needed a good player.

---

I think that's the key. We knowingly overpaid. That's why we cleared the capspace and got extra picks in the first place, you always have to overpay for your first big FA.

By the way Boris took 8 shots in 38 minutes last night and had 6 of Phoenix's 10 turnovers.